Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

[mikejones]

Re: just wondering

i was wondering what kind of damage output a mnk/thf would do with sneak/trick/asuran fist?

lol from the first page, but sata only works on the first following attack, and since asuran is an 8x attack only the first hit would be crit/trick. so....... you get the point.

[arkaine23]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

Just something I wanted to toss out there...

In Ballista, you are fighting other people who (are hopefully for them) the exact same level as you. This is the equivalent to fighting EM mobs, not IT mobs. I can see how in such a circumstance the to-hit/damage equations are on a much different part of the curve than they would be vs say a person in ballista who is 10-12 levels higher than you. Also the fight durations vs mobs of similar strength to oneself are much shorter so spike damage (ala WS) becomes more heavily weighted than say a 10% double attack rate, or even a +25% atk bonus from berserk.

Now if a lvl 60 mnk/war and mnk/sam teamed up vs a lvl 72 rdm/war, I'd be interested to see some parses. Compared to them attacking a lvl 60 rdm/war.


I'm not taking sides on the matter. Mnk/war offers the most useful stats/traits/abilities for typical experience points grinding, IMO.

[Muu Yi]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

About Monk/Dragoon:

Since Monk normally hits twice when using Hand-to-Hand, I believe that when you use Jump as Monk/Dragoon you will get 2 hits as well... I'm going to have to test this on my mule once I get its Monk to lvl 20 first. But assuming this is true that would be the equivalent to Double Attack going off on both fists except set to a 90 second timer, and you can use it starting from level 20 Monk/10 Dragoon rather than having to wait until level 50 Monk/Warrior.

If I recall correctly High Jump which is a lvl 35 Dragoon job ability can also remove some of a Dragoon's Hate when they use it. This could be useful to a level 70 Monk/35 Dragoon who needs to get rid of some of their hate quickly if they are taking a beating. One of the attractive parts of subbing Thief at level 60 and higher is that you would be planting all of the hate from your Weaponskills onto the tank rather than taking it yourself, but High Jumping some hate away after you perform a weaponskill maybe faster and more efficient than getting into position for SATA and needing a second voker prior to the skillchain. I guess you might consider this situational. High Jump is also rumored to have a higher rate of critical hits than regular Jump and is on a 3 minute timer instead.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

About Monk/Dragoon:

Since Monk normally hits twice when using Hand-to-Hand, I believe that when you use Jump as Monk/Dragoon you will get 2 hits as well... I'm going to have to test this on my mule once I get it's Monk to lvl 20 first. But assuming this is true that would be the equivalent to Double Attack going off on both fists except set to a 90 second timer, and you can use it starting from level 20 Monk/10 Dragoon rather than having to wait until level 50 Monk/Warrior.

No, doesn't work. Jump is one attack.

If I recall correctly High Jump which is a lvl 35 Dragoon job ability can also remove some of a Dragoon's Hate when they use it. This could be useful to a level 70 Monk/35 Dragoon who needs to get rid of some of their hate quickly if they are taking a beating. One of the attractive parts of subbing Thief at level 60 and higher is that you would be planting the hate from your Weaponskills onto the tank rather than taking it yourself, but High Jumping that hate away after you perform a weaponskill maybe faster and more efficient than getting into position for SATA and needing a second voker prior to the skillchain.

if you are MNK/drg, i don't think you'll need to worry about pulling hate

[Muu Yi]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

No, doesn't work. Jump is one attack.

if you are MNK/drg, i don't think you'll need to worry about pulling hate

And I suppose you have tested this? :D

Monk/anything will pull hate on Bones. That's what Monk/Thief I have partied with have used the Thief subjob for. The biggest source of hate is from their Weaponskills and you can transfer that hate away from yourself with Trick Attack.

[Taskmage]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

Multi-hit jumps are possible: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/dra...hit.jumps.html

[neighbortaru]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

i know about double attack going off in Jump, but I don't recall seeing Jump hit twice as /drg because you are MNK. I suppose I can hop on my wife's monk to test again if you really want to make sure.

>>Muu yi
wasn't so much talking about bones as much as getting an invite

[Taskmage]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

You don't get two damage numbers, just a higher one and 1 more tp. Like when you WS with dual wield or da. I don't know for a fact that it works that was with hand to hand weapons, but jump isn't locked at one hit.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

You don't get two damage numbers, just a higher one and 1 more tp.

Ah! that could be true. I never looked at the TP too closely and just assumed I'd see the regular "X takes blah damage" x2 messages that most H2H has.

[Muu Yi]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

i know about double attack going off in Jump, but I don't recall seeing Jump hit twice as /drg because you are MNK. I suppose I can hop on my wife's monk to test again if you really want to make sure.

>>Muu yi
wasn't so much talking about bones as much as getting an invite

Sure go make sure. And I already knew that is what you originally meant but I was purposely ignoring the snobby tone in your post because you sounded like you had already made your mind up. I only pointed out the possible benefits that I have been made aware of recently. Just because the majority of the people you party with don't see a subjob's merits doesn't mean it doesn't have any at certain levels or even solo. And pointing them out is what this thread is all about, is it not?

[Minaku]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I just want to point out that Double Attack from /WAR gives additional TP as well as damage.

If you get off 12 double attacks in 3 minutes, which isn't unheard of in a chaining party, you just got the same 60 tp Meditate would have given you. At any rate, the TP gain of /SAM is not that amazing compared to /WAR.

I like using different subs for different things. I find /SAM is great for Dynamis when you need TP asap for that NIN mob and a lot of your time is spent trying to get a couple punches in before something dies.

I definately recommend /WAR from 30-75. Before 30, I might suggest to you /DRG or honestly whatever you want. This being said, the only place I ever get to actually use /WAR now is KRT. Basically everywhere else I am using /NIN or /WHM for various things. For the exp grind though, and for pure consistent damage, WAR really is very, very good.

[Snakpak]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

Well I just wanted to say that mnk/sam is not an awful sub for monk. yes I know double attack is amazing, and beserk helps a bunch. I will admit /war is probally the best one ( I dunno tho, my war is only 12 >...> ) but in my parties I will be killing with two howling fists a fight, and even though people say the tanks hate it, in all the parties I've been in they could not care less, because they are good at their jobs. I also would like to say that guy who was saying all that ballista shit is a dumbass, he gives people who mnk/sam a bad name. So even though /war is the best sub, dont be hatin on /sam :D

this is coming from a Taru 62 mnk/sam, yes I said taru and I'm proud of it!

[WovenDarkness]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

*sniff...sniiifff*

/cough

......dusty in here. Last cleaned May '06.

[Snakpak]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

lol whoops didnt see the date ~.~