Higher Damage vs. Less Delay Discussion

[sactothrash]

I've always preferred having less delay for my monks weapons but I've never sat down and done the math as to which does more damage. I'm going to try to right now.

I'm at work right now and don't have access to the game so my numbers may be a little off.

Keep in mind that Monks get ATK Delay bonuses at the following levels.

MA0 480
MA1 400(Lv1)
MA2 380(Lv16)
MA3 360(Lv31)
MA4 340(Lv46)
MA5 320(Lv61)



Let's start at level 1.
Base Delay 400

Cat Baghnakhs 2 dmg +60 delay
Unarmed 0 dmg +0 delay
Cesti 1 dmg +48 delay

Assuming that each attack at level one (varies depending on race) does between 5-8 damage each hand.

Cat Baghnakhs would have damage at 14-20 for both hands every 4.6 seconds.
Cesti damage would be 12-18 every 4.48 seconds.
Unarmed it would be 10-16 damage every 4 seconds.

60 second battle:

13 attacks with the baghnakhs for damage of 182-260.
13 attacks with the cesti for damage of 156-234.
15 attacks unarmed for damage of 150-240

5 minute battle

65 attacks with the baghnakhs for damage of 910-1300.
66 attacks with the cesti for damage of 792-1188.
75 attacks unarmed for damage of 750-1200

It looks like more damage with slower attacks out damages the other options quite a bit.



Lvl 20
Base Delay 380

Cougar Baghnakhs 6 dmg +51 delay
Burning Cesti 3 +40 delay
Tropical Punches 1 dmg +0 delay

Each attack at level 20 for my galka monk on an even match monster averages around
10-15 each hand.

Cougar Baghnakhs would have damage at 32-42 for both hands every 4.31 seconds.
Burning Cesti damage would be 26-36 every 4.2 seconds.
Tropical Punches damage would be 22-32 damage every 3.8 seconds.

60 second battle:

13 attacks with the Cougar Baghnakhs for damage of 416-546.
14 attacks with the Burning Cesti for damage of 364-504.
15 attacks with the Tropical Punches for damage of 330-480

5 minute battle:

69 attacks with the Cougar Baghnakhs for damage of 2208-2898.
71 attacks with the Burning Cesti for damage of 1846-2556.
78 attacks with the Tropical Punches for damage of 1716-2496

Higher damage with slower attack still seems to out damage quicker attacks with less damage.



My monk is still only level 20 so I can't do any calculations for damage at higher levels but I think this is pretty good evidence. I will still be using my tropical punches for the +10 accuracy and more TP though :-)

If any of my calculations or info is wrong please let me know! Also keep in mind this is all speculation based on my in game experiance.

ps. All weapon info was taken from http://ffo.warcry.com

[Lord]

what you may want to add into the equation is WS damage

such as with Tropic Punches you do this much WS damage every this many seconds... with cougar baghnaks you do this much damage every this many seconds. Tough i was under the impression that TP is based on how much damage you do???

id be interested to see what out damages what then.

[sactothrash]

I believe for TP, there is a set amount gained for Each type of weapon. For daggers its less than Great Axes because daggers attack quicker.

Tropical punches would accumulate TP much faster than anything else. I believe I gain 9-10% TP every attack (Im not sure what the effect is if you only land the attack with one hand)

With a gain of 9-10% each attack the Tropical punches would net you another WS you can use during battle which is really helpful in parties for skillchains.

It might be a good idea to keep a weapon with High damage in your inventory to switch to for using WS.

[spuncan]

there are set equations for each weapon type that factor in lvl and stats, this goes for reg and ws damage, ive only been able to find ws damage 4 monk and its in japanese.. maybe i should ask to have it translated, bablefish makes no sense out of it and niether can I :\. very nice study though, although i think some things maybe off but still tis good

[sactothrash]

Originally posted by spuncan
there are set equations for each weapon type that factor in lvl and stats, this goes for reg and ws damage, ive only been able to find ws damage 4 monk and its in japanese.. maybe i should ask to have it translated, bablefish makes no sense out of it and niether can I :\. very nice study though, although i think some things maybe off but still tis good

Heh alot of the info was kind of off the top of my head but the basic idea is still sound. I was mostly trying to demonstrate the difference in straight auto-attack damage. It would my brain too much to try and factor in racial,WS and/or equipment factors hehe.

[Tokitoki]

TP gain is based on the delay of the weapon. My dagger gets 6% TP per hit, my Spear 10%, scythes i believe get 12%...

[Lone Dragon]

H2H get about 6% per hit, and you always hit twice, so if each hit lands, that's 12%

[bside]

spuncan,

can u either post a link to it or pm me w/ a link? i'll take a look. (it's 4 am here in japan, so it'll be tomorrow when i'll work on the translation...)

[raptorjb007]

I dont think the question should be....damage or delay....but focus more on the ratio between the two, and the indivial benifits each weapon gives.

[Huing]

I believe that the TP rates varies with the weapon dmg.

Tropical Punches : 1dmg ---> does 5tp per hit, which equals 10tp if both hit lands.

Legionaire Knuckles: 4dmg ---> does 6tp per hit, which equals 12tp if both hit lands.

Knifes have pretty low dmg, I only tested with Bee Stinger: 4dmg ---> 6tp

Swords, Axes, Scythes generally have more dmg, I believe that is why the tp gain rate is higher. 10-12tp, etc.

[Chapel]

TP gain goes by delay not damage because then a level 70 weapon would gain tp 10x faster compared to a level 1 as an example. And for H2H it varies for me between 5-6% tp per hit.

As for my take on the whole Delay vs Damage problem, I'd go with damage. This is taking into consideration that more likely than not you'll be doing skill chains in your PT and having butt loads of TP is good and all but if your just going to waste it waiting for your teammates to build tp whats the point.

I used beat cesti (mnk af1, 4 dmg, 48 delay, +2 vit,+2dex,+3 acc.) and could berserk/boost Raging fists for about 500-600 off a Dancing Weapon in quifim. Fast forward a level I get Patas +1 (+15 dmg, 89 delay) and Boost/Berserk Raging Fists for 895 :sweat: . Also if you read DJplaeskool post on best monk weapons you'd see there the weapons with highest damage and also long delays.

Hope this helps

PS.
Semi-Rant, I've noticed that double attack doesn't seem to work during raging fists. I read that it does work on other ws's like Guilotine. But i've never had it work on me for raging fists

[bside]

spuncan sent me a link to the site where he found that data, and as i felt it should be shared w/ others, i made a new thread with the translated data.

here's a link to it; http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=28117

[laicram]

Chapel do ANY of the WS's you have as far utilize Double-Attack?

[Lone Dragon]

The lvl 25 Warrior Job Trait 'Double Attack' only affects auto-attack.
If a lvl 50+ Monk with a Warrior sub happens to get a Double attack, he/she will hit 3 times instead of two.

DA is random, so it wouldn't make sense if it worked on WSs, because it would make the ability a lil' too powerful and WSs have set animations.

[bside]

Originally posted by Lone Dragon
The lvl 25 Warrior Job Trait 'Double Attack' only affects auto-attack.
If a lvl 50+ Monk with a Warrior sub happens to get a Double attack, he/she will hit 3 times instead of two.

DA is random, so it wouldn't make sense if it worked on WSs, because it would make the ability a lil' too powerful and WSs have set animations.

that's wrong. double attack does stack w/ physical weapon skills. (not for elemental ones, though.)

although ws' have set animations, double attack could, and actually does stack. u can check this by the tp u gained right after the weapon skill. one of the examples would be 2h axe's Storm Vent, which is 2-hit ws, and gives u around 25 tp when hit twice. but u could end up having 50 tp if u get double attack on both hits; yes, double attack has a chance to stack w/ each hits, not just once. likewise, as for h2h, the chance to double attack is per hit, not the cycle, so mnk could end up hitting 4 times instead of 2.

just so u know, thf's triple attack does stack w/ ws', too, and it also does stack w/ double attack.

so in theory, 50+ mnk w/ war sub using rangeki could be hitting 10 times instead of normal 5. but in reality, the chance of having that many hits is almost impossible. the most i ever got w/ rangeki was 8 hits, if i remeber correctly. and that was when i was a war using it, w/ af foot (increases chance to double attack) put on. the most i got as a mnk was 7.