Monk/warrior A Good Combo?

[Dante1981]

just wondering if haveing the warrior as the main job and a monk as the sub is a good idea and what are the pros and cons of that combo.

thanks

[Tuned Bandit]

Pros--
More HP
More VIT
HP Boosts
"Accumulate" Ability could help

Cons--
Martial Arts job qualities go to waste
Low MND


That's all I can think of so all in all, it's actually quite an effective combo, I would think.

[Ultimate]

Yeah I think so too. And the MND doesn't affect the combo at all!
Status calculater, here we go!

It also boosts agility.
...I'm kinda sleepy...Not much difference here.

[logar]

nvm

[Zurar]

I play as a Monk main Warrior sub and i get people asking me to tank for them all the time. Monk is MUCH better provoker than a Warrior main Monk sub due to the extra abilities you get that gain high hate. Monk at lvl 25 can use Provoke from warrior sub, Boost (1/4 as strong as provoke in gaining hate) Dodge (1/3 as strong as provoke) and Focus (1/3 as strong as provoke). I've actually had warriors provoke a mobs that were on me and the mobs completely ignore the warrior and kept hitting me. This can be a bad thing at times, but it usually isn't with a group that's well balanced and knows what they're doing.

As a War main Monk sub you only get provoke, boost, Berserk, and Defender at 25. For a warrior, berserk is completely useless if they're tanking cause thier Def gets dropped to pretty much half. Defender is quite useful, but it doesn't gain the hate from the mobs as well as the other monk abilities. I guess the biggest question to ask is, if you were a mob, what would you go after first...the person provoking you that just gained 9 atk, evasion, and accuracy boosts, or the one that's provoking you that just gained 9 atk than halfed his atk to double his def? Personally i'd go for the one that's gonna hit me harder/more often.

In all truth though, i would look more at what you plan to be for an advanced job (if any). If you want to be a class that wears the heavier armor (rangers, paladins, dark knights etc.) then you go with Warrior. If you want to be the lighter armor classes (Samurai, Ninja, Summoner, etc.) go monk. Why do i say this? Because it's going to save you tons of money from having to switch gear when you change jobs later in the game. Hope this helped some.

[Koy]

actually mnk doesnt make a good tank, especially at higher levels. The difference in the defense in the different armors will become more apparent as you get higher. Although a mnk has higher hp, they have low defense (not VIT). And I dont think beserk, defender, or any of the mnk abilities gain hate but im not sure. At lower levels, the difference isnt that big so they can tank just as well but it will get more apparant. And when you get into AF levels, warrior AF gives a lot more hate than other AF's.

[Zurar]

Yes Defense is alot lower on a monk, but they also have higher evasion than a warrior so they get hit less often. I have a lvl 40 monk, so i also know for a fact that the monk abilities will gain hate from the mobs, however it is not a main provoke. It's rather obvious when a mob starts attacking me when i hit boost or another of my abilities, that those abilities gain hate. The monk abilities are just like little boosters, however, that are to be used inbetween provokes to provide that little extra hate while waiting for provoke to recharge, though i have had times where i've actually had boost save our mages from a mob. I can still hold agro alot better than warriors aswell....infact i still have warriors that can't provoke off of me when i try to hold the agro. Another ability that is overlooked on the monk is Chakra...Currently i can heal 98 of my HP with Chakra which is on a refresh of 5 minutes, so i generally get to use it once each fight and it does help Alot. Now if you want the best tank there is, then go Paladin main, Warrior sub.

Now if you're talking lvl 50+ for tanking, then yes, a warrior IS a better tank than a monk IF they can hold the agro, and at this point a Monk would likely be better off with a Samurai sub anyway so they can use their weapon skills more often to help deal the damage. Anyway, i've actually gotten more groups with Warrior subbed on my Monk than any other sub due to the fact that i can provoke. Mages don't care what job you are after they get their main tank as long as you can provoke the mob off of them should the main tank loose the agro.

[Callous]

just to let you know this informaton is very very useful but i have a question...how is the mnk/drk combo because i checked other forums and no1 really gave me a reason why to love it???

[lun4tic]

Nobody will, they're all cookie cutters.

By far, monks are more powerful then warriors, but don't have the defense. Having warrior as your main won't do much for you, so its best to have it as a sub. Or you could get thief as a sub and be happy too.

As for Drk being a sub, you'd have more power, then you would defense if you had a War as a sub. You definantly wouldn't be a tank, thats for sure. But you could always get War up to level 10 and switch back and forth.

[Zando]

In my 50th season of Galka Monk/Warrior,I could not be pure damage dealer.
Because my fist dealt too much damage to evade from the monsters in each battles,without taunt though.
But I could be a tank with foods and gears,and Warrior abilities.
I think Warrior Sub is useful in almost of situations.

[Mithrael]

Zurar:

i also know for a fact that the monk abilities will gain hate from the mobs

DJplaeskool could probably give a more definitely answer (he seems to be the highest level monk who regularly posts), but I am about 99.9999% positive that Boost does not generate hate. If you are able to pull hate by simply using Boost, that means that you pulled hate because you've done the most damage in the least amount of time. Maybe you boosted 12 times before battle and got in a great 1st hit, you got a critical, the BLM hasn't cast yet, or the Warrior hasn't provoked. That also means that your provoker is not doing a very good job of maintaining hate. It probably also means that you either don't have a thief in your party, or they aren't helping to cement hate on the tank properly. I use Boost 10-12 times per "incredibly tough" battle and I am usually #1 or 2 in damage dealing for any given fight. The only time i pull hate and a warrior can't get it off of me is when i use "Last Resort" + "Boost" + "Raging Fists". If I do as part of a renkei, the mob creams me until we kill it or the WHM cure me too much.

Dodge and Focus do not gain hate. Counterstance may gain hate (Most Defense down skills do create hate, i.e. Berserker, Last Resort, Soul Eater, Warcry), but i'm too chicken to try it on an IT mob. Too weak to be worthwhile mobs hit me for 191 with Counterstance. I can't imagine what Helldive or any other mob special would do to me with a defense of VIT/2.

The easiest way to tell if your skill generates hate is to use it and see if the mob turns to you before you hit it. Try using Last Resort. As soon as you hit confirm, the mob will turn to you (before the animation even starts). It definitely does not do that for Boost. The extra damage that boost may cause if you accumulate a lot of Attack up may cuase the monster to take notice. Overall monks (at least up to lv 45) do good damage per hit (about 1/2 of a good 2-hd axe hit) very fast. You should be doing at least as much damage as 1-hd swords per hit (with a drk sub i usually do more than 1-hd sword users). However, you do that 2x per turn and about 1.5 turns to great axe turn. Damage over time is huge, but damage in a short period of time should be small until you dump your tp.

Anyway, if you are holding aggro for most of the battle after lv 30, you're probably hurting your party. You do not have to the defense to handle the assault, and your mages are wasting way too much mana on curing you, reducing your ability to chain.

Higher evasion makes almost no difference at all when you are Lv. 40 and fighting lv 45+ mobs. Perhaps if you are a Mithra monk it makes more difference. Admittedly, Elvaans are not known for high AGI.

Now if you're talking lvl 50+ for tanking, then yes, a warrior IS a better tank than a monk IF they can hold the agro

Partially covered above (the bit about holding aggro). At about lv. 24 the equipment difference between a warrior and a monk is already very apparent. Your best equipment at lv 24 is about 10pts lower in defense than a properly equipped warrior. By the time you hit 30 and the warriors are wearing Centurion's armor, the difference should be huge. If you get to lv 40 and your defense is anywhere near the defense of the warriors in your party, the warriors are probably still wearing very old gear (chainmail >.<). Case in point, i was in a party the other night with a lv 40 warrior (i'm level 45). This warrior was wearing all Centurion's Gear (not IM or RS) with my best gear on, his defense at rest was still 10 points better than mine. No buffs and 5 levels lower. At 45 with the best gear available to me, my defense with Prot3 is equivalent to a well equipped warrior's defense without it (Prot3 adds 40 to defense). That's close to 25% difference. That's not taking into account Defender. It's also leaving Paladins completely out of the picture, and they are the preffered tanks. If you have the money to buy a lot of "Fish Mith-kabobs" your defense could be boosted enough to be tolerable, but they are rather spendy and you still won't have the defense to stand up to a paladin or well equipped warrior.

Callous:

how is the mnk/drk combo because i checked other forums and no1 really gave me a reason why to love it???

I've done a full comparison in this thread.

http://ffxi.cogn.net/forums/showthre...216#post191216

It works very well for me when the party is functional. When the provoker is lazy (or the thief doesn't trick off of the tank) it does not work well at all (i get nailed most of the fight for no reason). You just need to be intelligent about when you do your weapon skills. Starting a battle with a 300tp raging fists with buffs will not win you any favor with the tanks or mages.

One of the reasons Monks end up tanking so much in beta is that there are only a handful of really good thieves in beta (most of them post here). Most of the rest of them believe the only way to sneak/trick is to stand behind the monster and do it off of whoever is there. As a result, you get thieves who trick off of monks (because we are a melee class and usually opposite of the tank in formation) and occasionally the WHM because they are careless (yes... this happens a lot). If you're in one of those parties... run. Your mage will eventually end up dead. You will also not get near the full potential for EXP because your whms are going to spend all of their mana curing you every battle, which means stupidly long rest times after each battle.

You should never really be in a situation where you can't get at least EXP chain 1. If that's happening to you regularly, you may need to re-evaluate everyone's roll in the party.

All of this applies to regular battles of course, not to the occasional boss or miniboss battles. A tank will find it hard to pull a mob off of you while you use 100-fists regardless.

This post was entirely too long, sorry about that.

edit: fixed link that pointed to the old forum at ffxionline.com

[Mokk]

All buffs seem to add hate. Do a true test and you will see it is so.

A blackmage can do no dmg, cast fire spikes and bam buff aggro.

Same thing for monk. You can do no damage and cast dodge and bam aggro!

Have 2 people, one to run up to an aggro mob, then have the monk go up and cast dodge and I bet it turns on the monk.

I normally wouldn't say anything to an obviously more seasoned player, but the no aggro statement is in this case incorrect. I have tested it alot and witnessed seemingly all buffs have a degree of aggro. Have to agree with the buff aggro poster.

[lun4tic]

I think I've seen spikes get aggroed, but dodge has never gotten me aggroed, I wish it would though, cause thats the whole point.

[Mokk]

Had this happen again this weekend. Party of us hunting. 2 of us run up to the mob, myself and redmage, Redmage gets aggroed, I have not attacked nor turned on attack, use dodge and the mob turns on me.

Like it or no dodge causes aggro, I seen it to many times and so will thusly argue that is such. Granted it might be a tiny bit of aggro, but it is there.

[Chapel]

Mmm... I'm a 41/20 Mnk/War on Midgard right now and i can back Mokk up when he says monks skills add hate. I am pretty much 100% certain they all do. I also know that berserk and defender don't add hate but last resort and sentinal will. This is why Pld's use provoke AND sentinel at the start of a fight to anchor hate. Also why a drk shouldn't use Last Resort unless well its the last resort :sweat:. From the time i got a war sub after getting subjob to about 27-28, i was a much better tank than a war maybe even a pld(haven't pt'ed with pld's at those levels though :p ). But after that mnk armor really falls apart compared to what war's and the other heavy armor guys can wear. So its really not feasible for me tank although depending on PT config i maybe asked to :sweat: .
But going back to the whole monk skills and hate thing. There were times when I had to stop myself from using focus and chakra because i knew that would pull it off the tank. Not to mention depending how the fight is going when i start my WS macro with Boost, wait 2, ws. The monster will turn toward me at the boost before my ws goes off.
As for the whole Mnk/Drk issue look at the abilites they get from a drk sub. You get one more passive atk boost, Last Resort, and later on souleater. You also have a few mp left over that you can do almost nothing with. I might try drk sub at 60 monk for souleater but Berserk > Last resort. I'm not a fan of stacking buff's just for one ws. I start berserk and focus on at the start of the fight and just rip the critter up with my fists. But if you really want to find out try it out yourself you'll get a feel for the job after a few levels and can always go back to change it. Nothing is set in stone in FFXI