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Re: Drg/ Subjob
The "holding back" you're referring to is actually quite minimal. This is my typical cycle:
1. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
2. Seigan/Third Eye
3. Meditate
4. WS
5. Jump
6. WS
7. Super Jump
8. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
9. Seigan/Third Eye
10. WS
11. High Jump
<<< Somewhere in here you get another Jump.
12. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
13. Seigan/Third Eye
14. WS
15. Cycle should be at or near restart (go back to 1)
I get to launch all of my WS as soon as I am able and there is only one WS in the cycle in which I'm protected only by S/3E. The other two jumps are highly mitigated. Since the first 2 WS are launched in rapid succession, both of them are being mitigated by one Super Jump. S/3E is used to mitigate while getting enough TP for the 2nd WS. It's not "holding back" so much as it is a change in the timing of ability usage.
I don't understand why I would want to assume that everyone in my party sucks and bring a gimp sub. I would prefer to bring a good sub and assume that everyone is either good at what they do or trainable to a point where they can be. If that isn't possible, I simply change my strategy rather than my subjob. The former can be changed on the fly in the field as needed and my subjob can only be changed in town. Therefore if we end up swapping a bad tank for a good tank, I won't be stuck on /NIN when I really want to unload as /SAM. Tweaking strategy is, in my opinion, a superior choice to tweaking subjob. Essentially, going /NIN severely cripples your damage (and it does); why would I want to be always crippled when I could just voluntarily hold back as needed?
---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------
I want to go a bit more deeply into cycle downgrading. We have 3-5 major phases in the cycle depending on how fast you are chaining (keep in mind I'm 74DRG, and haven't done this in a traditional G. Coli meripo).
NOTE: If you don't have Seigan yet, deactivate Hasso before you use Third Eye.
First Phase
The first phase is the Super Jump phase. In this phase we want to create the biggest spike damage burst we can and then shed the whole thing with Super Jump. We use S/3E to reduce the amount of damage we take from the time we launch the attack to the time we hit SJ.
>> We can insert a S/3E only phase here while we're waiting for Jump's timer to end allowing us to use our Jump in conjunction with High Jump later on depending on speed. See 3rd phase below.<<
Second Phase
The next phase is the High Jump phase. This is the second most lenient attack routine we have. If you have bridged well and your Jump timer is ready, you can do your S/3E, WS, Jump, High Jump and mitigate a good bit of damage. The longer you wait before launching the main attack, the better, because it allows High Jump to reduce enmity from your auto-attack as well. If you find you are still drawing hate on this phase, remain in Seigan mode or just don't reactivate Hasso until the mob dies.
Third Phase
These phases are when you will receive the bulk of your damage as you have no enmity mitigation to go with them. In general, you will always be doing S/3E before you WS. Whether or not you can shift back to Hasso depends on how much hate you're getting. The only time you should have to hold back is during these phases.
When you hold WS to the end, you waste TP. Don't use a WS when it will do more damage than your mob has life remaining. For DRG on birds, my WS has been running around 15-25% of mob life so if I'm holding WS, I wait for 25%. If you are full at the start of the fight, you can chance an early WS, but try to wait for the first or second provoke and go right after it obviously with S/3E up. You can also try to use your WS at the same time as other DDs--this way the hate will be shared among you rather than concentrated on one of you.
If you have a PLD tank, stand so that he/she can Cover you during one of these phases. You may also see Rampart go up when you turn the mob. Obviously, a Ninja can't do this for you so you're relying on S/3E.
Remember that you can swap in defensive gear if you have it on you, and if all else fails, just turn your back to the mob. Note that if you have to turn your back to the mob, you probably want to voluntarily reduce your output a bit more.
Here are your basic phase downgrade options in order of preference:
1. Leave Seigan on (or don't put Hasso back up if you don't have Seigan yet).
2. Hold WS until other DDs WS.
3. Hold WS until 2nd Provoke.
4. Hold WS until 25% mob HP.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the above being said, I will say that I also see the point of the /NIN subjob which is obviously a very useful sub in terms of damage mitigation. However, where it fails for Dragoon is in the loss of the key abilities that make it good for WAR and other one-handed weapon wielders: The Dual Wield ability doesn't function with two handed weapons, so there is no DPS bonus. Essentially, you sub Ninja for one ability: Utsusemi which is a great ability for certain situations where extraordinary damage mitigation is needed.
/NIN gives extra mitigation in exchange for giving up all damage increasing abilities like Meditate, Hasso, Zanshin, Store TP, Berserk, and Double Attack. It also gives you the Hybrid Wyvern which is not suitable for healing.
I would say that, in general I like /BLU better than /NIN for damage mitigation because it allows the DRG to do backup healing for very little MP. The only situation in which I would recommend going for /NIN is when you need shadows to mitigate certain attacks by mobs that do large amounts of damage if you have no shadows up (Shadow-consuming AoE attacks like Slimes Fluid Spread that consume one or more shadows and deal damage based on how many shadows are consumed). Slimes in Temenos are a prime example of where /NIN shines. There are also many mission NMs for which shadows are very useful.
I doubt very much that there is a significant difference between the damage output of /NIN versus the output of /BLU but for the fact that /BLU provides a way to boost ones STR and use certain spells like Bludgeon whereas /NIN does not and /NIN provides the wyvern the ability to use Elemental Breaths and /BLU does not. Mitigation provided by the Cocoon spell and the ablitity to heal yourself and others, I think, makes /BLU more palatable to me in a party than /NIN since at least /BLU can also provide any of the following Job Traits all of which are damage mitigators:
Beast Killer
Lizard Killer
Undead Killer (for fun with Bourdonasse)
Auto Regen +1 (My favorite)
Originally posted by IfritnoItazura
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1. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
2. Seigan/Third Eye
3. Meditate
4. WS
5. Jump
6. WS
7. Super Jump
8. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
9. Seigan/Third Eye
10. WS
11. High Jump
<<< Somewhere in here you get another Jump.
12. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
13. Seigan/Third Eye
14. WS
15. Cycle should be at or near restart (go back to 1)
I get to launch all of my WS as soon as I am able and there is only one WS in the cycle in which I'm protected only by S/3E. The other two jumps are highly mitigated. Since the first 2 WS are launched in rapid succession, both of them are being mitigated by one Super Jump. S/3E is used to mitigate while getting enough TP for the 2nd WS. It's not "holding back" so much as it is a change in the timing of ability usage.
I don't understand why I would want to assume that everyone in my party sucks and bring a gimp sub. I would prefer to bring a good sub and assume that everyone is either good at what they do or trainable to a point where they can be. If that isn't possible, I simply change my strategy rather than my subjob. The former can be changed on the fly in the field as needed and my subjob can only be changed in town. Therefore if we end up swapping a bad tank for a good tank, I won't be stuck on /NIN when I really want to unload as /SAM. Tweaking strategy is, in my opinion, a superior choice to tweaking subjob. Essentially, going /NIN severely cripples your damage (and it does); why would I want to be always crippled when I could just voluntarily hold back as needed?
---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------
I want to go a bit more deeply into cycle downgrading. We have 3-5 major phases in the cycle depending on how fast you are chaining (keep in mind I'm 74DRG, and haven't done this in a traditional G. Coli meripo).
NOTE: If you don't have Seigan yet, deactivate Hasso before you use Third Eye.
First Phase
The first phase is the Super Jump phase. In this phase we want to create the biggest spike damage burst we can and then shed the whole thing with Super Jump. We use S/3E to reduce the amount of damage we take from the time we launch the attack to the time we hit SJ.
>> We can insert a S/3E only phase here while we're waiting for Jump's timer to end allowing us to use our Jump in conjunction with High Jump later on depending on speed. See 3rd phase below.<<
Second Phase
The next phase is the High Jump phase. This is the second most lenient attack routine we have. If you have bridged well and your Jump timer is ready, you can do your S/3E, WS, Jump, High Jump and mitigate a good bit of damage. The longer you wait before launching the main attack, the better, because it allows High Jump to reduce enmity from your auto-attack as well. If you find you are still drawing hate on this phase, remain in Seigan mode or just don't reactivate Hasso until the mob dies.
Third Phase
These phases are when you will receive the bulk of your damage as you have no enmity mitigation to go with them. In general, you will always be doing S/3E before you WS. Whether or not you can shift back to Hasso depends on how much hate you're getting. The only time you should have to hold back is during these phases.
When you hold WS to the end, you waste TP. Don't use a WS when it will do more damage than your mob has life remaining. For DRG on birds, my WS has been running around 15-25% of mob life so if I'm holding WS, I wait for 25%. If you are full at the start of the fight, you can chance an early WS, but try to wait for the first or second provoke and go right after it obviously with S/3E up. You can also try to use your WS at the same time as other DDs--this way the hate will be shared among you rather than concentrated on one of you.
If you have a PLD tank, stand so that he/she can Cover you during one of these phases. You may also see Rampart go up when you turn the mob. Obviously, a Ninja can't do this for you so you're relying on S/3E.
Remember that you can swap in defensive gear if you have it on you, and if all else fails, just turn your back to the mob. Note that if you have to turn your back to the mob, you probably want to voluntarily reduce your output a bit more.
Here are your basic phase downgrade options in order of preference:
1. Leave Seigan on (or don't put Hasso back up if you don't have Seigan yet).
2. Hold WS until other DDs WS.
3. Hold WS until 2nd Provoke.
4. Hold WS until 25% mob HP.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the above being said, I will say that I also see the point of the /NIN subjob which is obviously a very useful sub in terms of damage mitigation. However, where it fails for Dragoon is in the loss of the key abilities that make it good for WAR and other one-handed weapon wielders: The Dual Wield ability doesn't function with two handed weapons, so there is no DPS bonus. Essentially, you sub Ninja for one ability: Utsusemi which is a great ability for certain situations where extraordinary damage mitigation is needed.
/NIN gives extra mitigation in exchange for giving up all damage increasing abilities like Meditate, Hasso, Zanshin, Store TP, Berserk, and Double Attack. It also gives you the Hybrid Wyvern which is not suitable for healing.
I would say that, in general I like /BLU better than /NIN for damage mitigation because it allows the DRG to do backup healing for very little MP. The only situation in which I would recommend going for /NIN is when you need shadows to mitigate certain attacks by mobs that do large amounts of damage if you have no shadows up (Shadow-consuming AoE attacks like Slimes Fluid Spread that consume one or more shadows and deal damage based on how many shadows are consumed). Slimes in Temenos are a prime example of where /NIN shines. There are also many mission NMs for which shadows are very useful.
I doubt very much that there is a significant difference between the damage output of /NIN versus the output of /BLU but for the fact that /BLU provides a way to boost ones STR and use certain spells like Bludgeon whereas /NIN does not and /NIN provides the wyvern the ability to use Elemental Breaths and /BLU does not. Mitigation provided by the Cocoon spell and the ablitity to heal yourself and others, I think, makes /BLU more palatable to me in a party than /NIN since at least /BLU can also provide any of the following Job Traits all of which are damage mitigators:
Beast Killer
Lizard Killer
Undead Killer (for fun with Bourdonasse)
Auto Regen +1 (My favorite)
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