Successfull Alternatives to the normal subclass.

[sonova]

anyone who says pls is clearly NOT being polite, so why bother typing anything?

it would seem to me that WAR would be a waste of time because you are not a tank as a dragoon. You simply aren't

when i'm being impolite you will know it

hi
do you even think before you post, or do you just pull random statements out of your arse? (<====| HI I AM BEING IMPOLITE OMG!~@~~)

what the hell makes you think warrior sub makes anyone a tank?

do you even know what abilities you get out of subbing warrior?

heres a clue

1) double attack
2) Berserk (+25% to your attk owns)
3) +1 attk up boost
4) +1 def up boost
5) Defensive


hi out of 5 abilities .... only 2 have anything to do with tanking

you sir have no clue about what you are talking about

but here is a little bit of education for you

our good friends at merriam webster have this to say:-

Main Entry: vi·a·ble
Pronunciation: 'vI-&-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Middle French, from vie life, from Latin vita -- more at VITAL
1 : capable of living; especially : capable of surviving outside the mother's womb without artificial support <the normal human fetus is usually viable by the end of the seventh month>
2 : capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>
3 a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives> b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state> c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>

now lets define adequately

Main Entry: ad·e·quate
Pronunciation: -kw&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin adaequatus, past participle of adaequare to make equal, from ad- + aequare to equal -- more at EQUABLE
1 : sufficient for a specific requirement <adequate taxation of goods>; also : barely sufficient or satisfactory <her first performance was merely adequate>
2 : lawfully and reasonably sufficient
synonym see SUFFICIENT

In the context of this discussion adequately means that your sub should be at least on par with the dominant archetypes. Almost all your suggestions dont even hold a candle to the dominant archetypes and so you sir are wasting not only your own time but the time off all those whom you misguidedly seek to enlighten

Stop confusing VIABLE with POSSIBLE. Be any damn sub you want just dont lie to yourself that its anywhere close to a viable alternative because as i have said earlier ppl with far far far more experience and analytical skill have already exhausted all the options long before you even became a dragoon.

(Does the ranger's accuracy bonus' affect physical attacks or just ranged attacks?)

I'm pretty sure its only ranged attacks so ranger is also pretty useless unfortunately

EDIT yes i know i left out provoke , but the argument still stands ... if you ever have to use it then your tank has serious issues

[shaunathan]

all in all I guess it is a moot point. I do have 30 levels of warrior, which will last quite a long time as a dragoon. heh.


Dex doesn't visibly affect a dragoon? hmm I wonder how much dex you actually get from a sub class...

[Hibiki]

double attack alone makes it worth subbing war for drg. When i pt w/ samurai, sam sometimes has trouble keeping up with me.

before 50, subbing thf, or a mage is fine, but after that, subbing thf just isn't worth trading off on double attack and berserk. sure sneak is fine, but the dmg you do from double attack and berserk completely outweighs sneak. if you do it for steal, then it shows you're a punk whos willing to gimp the pt for your own personal greed. a mage is fine for pre 50, maybe after that, only if your pt seriously sucks and needs help on the heals. I subbed rdm pre 40s when i'm in an NA party because frankly, they need it

afterwards, you shoudlnt' really be pting w/o a rdm so they take care of that debuffing fine.

PS. I find it very sad that 60% of the threads in drg topic are all about people who feel like they must go against the crowd and sub something laughable.

[Weezingpipes]

Dex doesn't visibly affect a dragoon? hmm I wonder how much dex you actually get from a sub class...

While the 2 statements are semi unrelated, there are websites with this info, here is one :

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/charstat1.html

It is a stat calculator. Plug in race, main job, sub job and specify level and it tells you the base stats for that main job level/sub job level for whatever job combo. Even by 75 the difference in DEX for say DRG/WAR vs DRG/THF is 2 - in other words, mostly negligable.

As mentioned, dex is nice, but accuracy is so much better. Presently at level 60 and +27 accuracy I'm having difficulty landing all 5 hits on Penta Thrust consistantly (generally between 3-5) and a meager amount of dex won't do much to supplement this. Accuracy is important to all melee jobs, literally the only job who might care about DEX any significant amount is THF.

Oh, and why DEX doesn't matter as much : you can load up on DEX crap, your crit rate won't be that much higher considering everyone misses a fair bit at high levels and the only way around this really is better accuracy, so more crits won't compensate the fact you simply don't hit as much.

[shaunathan]

EDITED/REMOVED unrelated Quote ::~ Osaka ~

I'm sorry sonofva, you lack the rationale needed to carry on an intellegent debate. you've been warned for flaming before. If you can't post poigently don't post at all, especially on my posts. A liberal use of the "search" function has yielded all the information I've needed on this subject so this post truely is moot. thanks to those who kept a level head, your thoughts are appreciated.

[Ka1'E1]

odd I don't see what was quoted, and if it was a PM it should have stayed that way.

[shaunathan]

click on view warnings under sonova's name, click on the first post he was warned about. since he said "as for the rest of you" I am to believe it was not a PM to someone.

[Kailea]

Thank you shaunathan ^.^ You where very nice in giveing me this info :p I will go over all the info from both posts and see what I come up with............but I am still thinking about what that Japanese DRG said about subing WHM ^.^ he said that is really does work well you just have to use the right equipment to back it up

[Osaka]

Dont do~

I dont see need to close this thread as of yet, but dont quote others from other threads that are unrelated. This almost equates to flaming/slander as you are intentionally trying to discredit him with an unrelated post. This does not help either parties.

No warning points awarded.

Osaka~

[SelfdestButton]

Despite sonova's tendency to flame, he is very, VERY right. His lack of "rationale" actually has much more base than anything you've said so far, simply because it's based on actuall data. His points aren't moot because he called you an idiot twenty times in his post.

Hope you've checked that stat calculator that was posted. If you haven't, here it is anyways. diffference between a DRG/WAR and a DRG/THF in DEX at lvl 75 is TWO. That's 1 extra accuracy. And thief is one of the most dex intensive classes in the game. You don't take a sub for it's stats. for the most part they make little to no difference. It's the abilities.

DRG/MNK is a stupid combo unless MAYBE you wanted to use it until lvl 30 (when you get berserk). It's not "new and interesting", it's sub-par.

One more thing. You could make a WHM/BLM/MNK sub "work" for dragoon with good equipment, but it doesn't change the fact that you don't need to make a DRG/WAR or a DRG/SAM work. It just does. Assuring yourself otherwise is voluntary self-retardation.

[shaunathan]

Kailea got the information she needed so I can now abondon this thread, I just didn't think it was fair that her thread got locked before she got that information.

[Carbon]

She wasn't seeking information.

She was seeking approval, which she did not generally receive, but then again, it would appear she doesn't care.

[Kailea]

No I got the info I wanted and yes I did care, but some poeple turned it into a job combo battle when all I wanted was there thoughs on the matter, witch after a wile I did collect the info I needed, and decided to go DRG/WHM instead so I could be a backup healer that does mager damage as well, and dont tell me that it does not work because I talked to a Japanese that that is doing it right now and he says he has no problems getting paties or doing his part in the party. So I am going to try it out and see for myself ^.^

[SelfdestButton]

I don't know why I'm saying this. Perhaps it' my duty to humanity or something.

Kailea; this was the gist of that argument.

Kailea: I wanna do a drg/pld! What do you guys think?

Everyone else: It would be horrible.

Kailea: No it wouldn't! You don't need to be 100% effective! (quote)

Everyone else: You do if you want a PT.

Kailea: SHUT THE HELL UP!

Everyone else: You're an idiot.

[Corin Gedaliah]

Originally posted by Kailea-D
but some poeple turned it into a job combo battle when all I wanted was there thoughs on the matter

Kailea, YOU turned it into a job combo battle when you posted this:

Originally posted by Kailea-D
Ok then tell me this, squair them selves says that WAR/PLD works great, so why would DRG/PLD be any diffrent? Oh and I found out the perks of PLD/DRK, you get a PLD with almost the same atk and def.

Please, stop acting like some kind of martyr.