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  • A dragoon's wishlist...

    Yes, kind of a repost and maybe preaching to the choir, but I felt that I had to rant a little, blow off some steam.

    I was out hunting stuff in Buburimu a few days ago. I'm level 46 DRG/WAR, have +10 dex total. So I go to attack a goblin...and miss! It says 'missed goblin', not 'goblin's shadow absorbed the damage'.

    A flat out miss on a too weak to be worthwhile mob.

    WTF.

    Then I go 'ok, mr. gob, your ass is mine!'. So I bust out my jump on him...and miss.

    OMG.

    Meanwhile, my wyvern is hitting it for over 100, no problems.

    So I hit my High Jump and was temporarily rewarded with some damage figures. 100+ Then I hit him again...for 140. WHAT? My jump attack, landing from above with my lance jabbing into his brain, driven by strength and momentum, did LESS damage than a measly swipe to the head?

    Then, a few days later, I went to help some people do the rank 3 dragon. I thought to myself 'okay, now i'll get to use Ancient Circle and see how my dragon killer job trait works'.

    Absolutely pathetic....Ancient Circle wore off so quick it was useless. My so called 'Dragon Killer' trait was not even noticeable whatsoever. Oh yes, one of my jumps misssed too. Am I a specialist in the art of killing dragons or not?? Like it matters, considering how many dragons you get to fight in the game!


    Wishlist:
    -----------

    Better Jumps:
    Although I only have Jump and High Jump at the moment and have not tried Super Jump, why do DRGs only get 3 jumps? We're 'masters of the air and the lance', so what gives? I blast out my two jumps (assuming they even HIT)...and for the next 90 seconds I pretend to be a warrior all over again.

    We need:
    - Better jump accuracy. Like 100% accuracy. This is our defining ability as a job, the thing that sets us apart from the others.

    - Better jump damage. The damage that a jump attack does is not that much more than a regular attack, if you're lucky! The jump is described as being an attack which lets the DRG pierce the toughest hides...so why is it not doing more damage? I'm not saying that it should be like a THF's sneak/trick attack, since THF is a burst damage dealer, but at least make it do noticeably more damage.

    - Lower jump timers.

    - More jump options

    In return, put some restrictions on the Jumps, make them more unique and more useful. Some suggestions from ppl on the forums include:

    - Jumps take some time to land after being used. This is to simulate the dragoon jumping and landing on the monster (rather than the instant attack it seems to be now).

    - Jump attacks gain hate, not shed them. You're doing damage to the monster...how can it not hate you? Jump should gain the same hate as a Sneak Attack...and High Jump should gain the hate of a Trick Attack. If you do too many jump attacks at the wrong time, you may die from aggro.

    examples:
    Jump: 2 seconds of airtime, 100% hit rate, 2x damage, gains 15% tp, gains some hate (critical-hit hate). Good chance to interrupt spell casting or special abilities (useful to stop gob bombs, etc). AOE attacks still do damage to the DRG, but attacks directed *at* the DRG do not register (ie. Pugil Screwdriver). Cannot be healed while in the air. Also, upon landing, you're more vulnerable to an attack for a split second or so...so a badly timed Jump can result in extra pain for you, if you're not careful. 50 second timer.

    High Jump: 4 seconds of airtime, 100% hit rate, 2.5x damage, gains 18% tp, sneak attack hate. Higher chance to interrupt spell casting or special abilities. AOE attacks still do damage to the DRG, but attacks directed *at* the DRG do not register (ie. Pugil Screwdriver). Cannot be healed while in the air. Also, upon landing, you're more vulnerable to an attack for a split second or so...so a badly timed Jump can result in extra pain for you, if you're not careful. 80 second timer.

    Evasion Jump: 3 seconds of invincible airtime. No damage, sheds some hate, drains 30% tp. Cannot be healed while in the air, and for a split second after landing, the DRG is more vulnerable. 90 second timer.

    High Evasion Jump: 5 seconds of invincible airtime. No damage, sheds more hate, loses 50% tp. Cannot be healed while in the air, and for a split second after landing, the DRG is more vulnerable. 2 min timer.

    Super High Jump: 8 seconds of invincible airtime. Option of coming down to do damage, or simply evading (evading is default). If the former, you will do 3.5x damage, 100% hit rate, gains 25% tp, higher chance to interrupt spell casting or special abilities, but gain trick attack hate. If the latter, you will shed all hate, but also lose all your tp. Cannot be healed while in the air, and for a split second after landing, the DRG is more vulnerable. 5 minute timer.



    Improved job traits/abilities:

    - Ancient Circle...increase its duration to 3 minutes, reduce timer to 5 mins, and make it effective against all flying monsters, dragons and reptiles in general.

    - Dragon Killer...change it so that it gives bonus damage and hit-accuracy against flying monsters, dragons and reptiles. Rename it to something else...

    - Another accuracy bonus at level 45 (maybe). Or at least, some other job trait to look forward to! We only have 3 total at the moment.

    - Call Wyvern...move the current 2hr ability here. 1hr timer, and 2hr duration. Otherwise, no changes to the wyvern as it is now.

    - Better 2hr ability...Chainjump. Wyvern as a 2hr ability *is* a gimmick. Half the time you're fighting mobs with AOE, and it's dead. It's useful for soloing, but let's face it...the game is about partying, not soloing.

    30 seconds duration, or a max of 5 jumps...whichever comes first.

    Just like it sounds, Chainjump would let the DRG chain the normal Jump attacks together. Hate building remains the same, TP building remains the same, the airtime remains the same. No other jumps can be used whatsoever, so if you do bust out this ability, you will be gaining some nice hate. After the 2hr is done, you cannot use any jumps at all for 2 minutes.

    This opens up a variety of jump chaining options....like if you chain 5 Jumps one after another, you'll do alot of damage very quickly, but gain a lot of hate very quickly. If you moderate your Jumps...like one Jump every 5 seconds, you won't get as much hate, but you won't do alot of damage as quickly as the first option. If you wait too long between Jumps, the timer may run out. If you chain 5 Jumps one after another, then spam a pentathrust...you better hope that the mob is dead after, or you'll soon be eating dirt.



    More comments and additions, or constructive criticism welcome. If something is glaringly wrong that I missed because I'm only level 46, just point it out.

    I've never fought skeletons yet, so I do not have any first hand experience with lance vs bone-enemies, but if it really is as bad as all the high levels make it out to be, why not give DRG an A- rating in staff, as well as more staff options, and better staves? A staff is similar to a spear...both are considered polearms.
    I still do not have Barblind.

  • #2
    Those are some pretty nice ideas but I saw one thing too outdone and that was the chain jump.If I understand correctly how you said it was,then the ability would gain uber hate and probably just be a death ticket I mean 5 jumps gaining hate would be A UBER load of hate to yourself and with the dragoon's low ass defence what do you do?I think you should take the 2 minute timer to use your other jumps, off or just the attacking ones so you can fire off a high evasion jump after you do Chain jump and then you would have reasonable hate.

    I like your other ideas like Ancient circle and dragon killer hurting flying monsters,dragons,and reptiles.This would help those abilitys actually come alive and square should DEFINETELY look into adding it at least to dragons and reptiles.

    Really though the Dragoon is a half baked job unless it is yet to have its true advantages shown yet. Like if suare adds more dragons or smaller dragons to train on in a future update or expansion pack it would show the power and worthwhole of the job.
    Do or Die I still try.......
    Took a long break from January 2k4 to May 2k4.

    Always looking for a good party on Quetzalcoatl.
    Soon to be A Dragoon
    Character: Atla
    Server:Quetzalcoatl
    Current Job:Warrior/Monk
    Future Job:Dragoon
    Job Levels:22/15

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, but I was thinking that if you could save your Evasion Jump and High Evasion Jump for after the Chainjump, you could do a ton of damage, and pretty much get away with it while leaving your party members stuck with a really pissed and charged up monster. I mean, if you look at other melees' 2hr abilities, most of them do a ton of damage in as short a period as possible, but leaving no get out of jail card.

      Examples include Meikyo Shisui, which is weapon skill spam. Then Hundred Fists, Eagle Eye shot, Mighty Strikes, Blood Weapon (kinda, it heals DRK too...does that gain more hate?), Mijin Hagakure.

      Only exceptions are THF and DRG, and THF gets Perfect Dodge, which can be very useful if timed right. DRG, at the moment, just gets a wyvern which is dead/unsummoned 90% of the time.

      Heck, if you look at every other Job's 2hr ability, the general trend is that they're held in reserve, used when the shit hits the fan (I know next to nothing about the BST 2hr ability, so someone plz clarify). Whm gets Benediction, PLD gets Invincibility, BLM gets Manafont, RDM gets Chainspell, blah blah blah.

      All except DRG, with a gimmicky 2hr wyvern. So the reasoning behind Chainjump is that we need something useful to bust out when the situation goes south, yet there should be a restriction on it.

      Manafont, for example, gives unlimited magic but the hate you get from spamming an attack spell could mean your quick death. Benediction is a hate magnet. Invincibility is even worse as a hate magnet. Chainspell is restricted by the available mana. Blood Weapon and Mighty Strikes are restricted by accuracy issues. Mijin Hagakure results in death for the ninja, perhaps death for the whole team if the mob didnt die. Meikyo Shisui is basically Chainweaponskill...tons of damage, lots of hate. The list goes on...
      I still do not have Barblind.

      Comment


      • #4
        Those are some great ideas. And they all should be in the game. But SE wont change the job unless someone puts a gun to their head.

        I have been a big Dragoon/Dragon Knight/Lancer fan ever since Kain in FF2/4(My first FF).
        But this version of DRG gets robed on pretty much everything other then attack, which is useless when you can't hit anything.

        Comment


        • #5
          So I hit my High Jump and was temporarily rewarded with some damage figures. 100+ Then I hit him again...for 140. WHAT? My jump attack, landing from above with my lance jabbing into his brain, driven by strength and momentum, did LESS damage than a measly swipe to the head?
          There's something serously wrong with Jump attacks. I was in Crawler's Nest for a bit of levelling. Time for my jump attacks. Can't remember the exact values but it was something like:
          High Jump....40 damage
          Jump....80 damage
          for some reason the improved version of the skill did half the damage of the upgraded version. Surely that can't be right. :confused:

          Comment


          • #6
            Jump: An Additional Attack
            High Jump: Sheds hate, does less damage than jump
            Super Jump: No damage; sheds all hate

            Comment


            • #7
              I just have a general question...do DRGs get TP from Jump? If they do, I don't think they should. I mean, I don't get any TP from Weapon Bash, so why should they get TP from Jump?

              EDIT: Fixed a typo.
              DRK75/WAR75/BLU75/RNG75/NIN72

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't know the details on weapon bash, but from what i see it's just a stun. Jump is an additional physical attack. IMO Jump abilities are fine the way they are. Once you get to 50+ you'll see.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tidane
                  I just have a general question...do DRGs get TP from Jump? If they do, I don't think they should. I mean, I don't get any TP from Weapon Bash, so why should they get TP from Jump?

                  EDIT: Fixed a typo.
                  dragoons are over-powered

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only real problem that DRGs have is that there aren't a lot of higher level mobs that polearm is good against, but this shoulpd be fixed with the next update.

                    All the other stuff is just whiney "why isn't my class the best class ever? /sigh /cry" type rhetoric.

                    DRG is definitely not under-powered, especially pre-60. In fact, from 49-59, they are pretty over-powered if you ask me. And don't try and tell me Pentathrust isn't a good WS when you're doing a 400 damage penta and i'm doing a 40 damage vorpal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't understand how you fail to see the point behind my post? My point is not that we SUCK at doing damage with our weapon skills or with normal swipes, and need a power boost. My point is our abilities are half-assed, and could stand to be updated or totally revamped.

                      Jump attacks? Look at the way they're now...you hit the macro, and an instant attack is busted out, with a 30 - 40% chance of missing, even on something like a GODDAMNED Forest Hare (yes, I've missed on my jumps on a Forest Hare in Sandoria). Even if you connect, all it does is regular damage, possibly a little bit more. No stun effect that you'd expect from landing on the monster's head with a spear, no armor break...nothing beyond damage. High jump just sheds some hate, but does nothing else other than damage. Did I mention that they miss so much that they seem very gimmicky? It's just an extra attack, something you'd expect like Double Attack, but with a timer.

                      Job traits? 3 job traits, woohoo, and one of them is worthless (Dragon Killer). The other two are of questionable value, especially that Accuracy Trait.

                      Job abilities? Wow, I get to use Ancient Circle. Now I get 1 minute's worth of useless protection against dragon-type enemies, who last much longer than 1 minute of fighting.

                      2hr ability? When the shit hits the fan, I can call my wyvern to do piddly damage and die to the next few AOE attacks. Meanwhile, the BLM is dumping attack spell after attack spell with manafont, the RDM is chainspelling, the MNK is going nuts with Hundred Fists, etc etc Even the DRK is hitting with Blood Weapon and gaining HP back - doing SOMETHING at least, in any emergencies requiring the use of 2hrs.

                      See my gripe? I'm sure you DRKs have a wishlist of your own, which would sound almost exactly like mine, and I dare you to call that DRK wishlist whiney "why isn't my class the best class ever? /sigh /cry" type rhetoric.
                      I still do not have Barblind.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hibiki
                        I don't know the details on weapon bash, but from what i see it's just a stun. Jump is an additional physical attack. IMO Jump abilities are fine the way they are. Once you get to 50+ you'll see.
                        Weapon Bash usually does about 10 damage for me.
                        DRK75/WAR75/BLU75/RNG75/NIN72

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          all 3 expansion jobs are rather half assed

                          DRGs mostly suffer from the equipment side of their implemetation

                          jumps / WSes etc are fine atm, imo. being able to get +24 TP and drop aggro at the same time rox. and that jumps have a maximum of 2x normal damage. It just suffers from a high variance

                          the wyvern is the only 2hour that lasts beyond 30 seconds of its activation. if you want to see a gimpy 2hour you should check out the RDM 2 hour or the ninja 2 hour


                          also you must remember that +10dex is only approx +5 acc which actually means very little in the long run. plus theres always a chance of missing since the hit miss thingamabob(as well as damage) is determined by an algorithm rather than just a baseline comparison.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Still...its sad that you'd miss on too weaks. I probably only have +2 ACC and +3 or so DEX (THF sub, by the way), but I don't know if I've ever missed on a too weak, I tend to only fight mobs of them, and often go to the bathroom while they all try to kill me.
                            DRK75/WAR75/BLU75/RNG75/NIN72

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Wyvern is the biggest dissapointment.
                              It has worse Defense that a WHM lvl 1 with no armor on.
                              And I agree so much when you said 2hrs are there for emergencies when things go very wrong.
                              If I am fighting a mob and have really low health but I am a THF at least I have the reassurance of Perfect Dodge.
                              Whm is the same with Benediction.
                              Warriors can unleash hard damage to quickly dispose of enemies etc.
                              What do Dragoons rely on when they are about to die? WYVERN! Wohoo, yes.. and few extra damage for 10 seconds before it dies and I have to wait another 2 hours for it. Awesome!

                              They should make Jump 100% accuracy, make Wyverns a JA with a 30 minute refresh time, make a 2hour where there are no cooldown times for Jump so you can keep smashing the macro button and hitting... but only make it last 15 seconds if Jump has 100% accuracy.

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