Greatsword

[Wiseman40]

The guides I've read say that greatsword is A, and Scythe is A+. I'm a fan of dark knights, but for some reason not a fan of scythes (I can't figure out why I prefer greatsword, but I do).

I know I'll be missing out on some nice weaponskills, but would I be alright if I used greatsword exclusively?

[Jei]

Re: Greatsword

It's situational, but as dark knight it's best to try keep them both trained. Great swords have their use and so do scythes.
Sometimes the parties will ask you to use specific type of weapons solely for skill chain purposes.
Other times you won't be asked anything and you can swing whatever weapon you desire.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Greatsword

Alright well I suppose I'll be leveling scythe...

[Aeni]

Re: Greatsword

The guides I've read say that greatsword is A, and Scythe is A+. I'm a fan of dark knights, but for some reason not a fan of scythes (I can't figure out why I prefer greatsword, but I do).

I know I'll be missing out on some nice weaponskills, but would I be alright if I used greatsword exclusively?

You need both weapons skilled up. Basically, what it comes down to is flexibility in renkei (skillchain). I remember one time this JP player (Hume DRK) joined our PT in Qufim and the leader wanted to perform a specific type of level 2 skillchain (I forgot if it was distortion or fragmentation) that he insisted the DRK to use scythe. It just so happens that this DRK had only one weapon skilled up -- Greataxe. He probably got lazy and used the weapon he used while leveling up his WAR. I knew this player personally from some random coffer runs before as he was a Rank 10 with a 75 BLM and a 75 SMN. Needless to say, both of the JP players were arguing with each other on PT chat about how useless it was and it didn't create the renkei wanted with the NIN. It was really odd...

Moral of the story, don't piss people off in your party. Have both weapons leveled up. You could get away with this at lower levels and even through the 30s and 40s, but after 66, you best have both weapons no less than 5 points from your level cap so that you can start performing Light and Dark skillchains, level 3 renkei, which you're most likely to be invited to a party for (it's really the only reason since we're known to endure hours and hours of LFP at times)

[Wiseman40]

Re: Greatsword

(it's really the only reason since we're known to endure hours and hours of LFP at times)

I take it this means that if I don't have thf subbed no one will invite me?

[Jei]

Re: Greatsword

If they are looking for a skillchain closer, they will look for Drk/Thf.
Meaning, you'll still get invite to do other roles :O But why not try to cover every invites possible?

[Wiseman40]

Re: Greatsword

If they are looking for a skillchain closer, they will look for Drk/Thf.
Meaning, you'll still get invite to do other roles :O But why not try to cover every invites possible?

Well it's not that I'm trying to be different...

I like the thf job as well. I may even level it as a main job someday.

However, there are certain jobs that use thf as a sub that I just don't think are appropriate for that combination.

Samurai, and Dark Knight both commonly sub thf, yet in my personal opinion the concept of a samurai or dark knight does not allow for a thf sub. Both, again in my opinion, are too noble for the thf sub...

They are very effective for skillchains and I see the high level validity of the combination but I'm not sure I'm willing to do it.

[Khidir]

Re: Greatsword

Consider at higher lvs that you only have one weapon lved like scythe when at 66 the pt asks for spinslash and you don't have it what will happen? esp when there is another with the skill seeking? always have more than pts expect it helps in the future when they specifically ask for your help
(i mean ls in this case) for promys and af quests

[Jei]

Re: Greatsword

i don't know why you're talking about being difference. I can't see the connection.
There is only 1 truth : if you want to level up, you need a party.
And having /thf ready to be used just makes that truth easier.
You don't need to if you don't want to.

Samurai, and Dark Knight both commonly sub thf, yet in my personal opinion the concept of a samurai or dark knight does not allow for a thf sub. Both, again in my opinion, are too noble for the thf sub...

To be straight, there's no such thing as noble/evil in this game. There's only the role of the jobs.
And as dark knight, you fall under the damage dealing catagory.
Which will compete with warrior + monk + thief + dragoon + samurai + ranger + other dark knights.
You are 1 choice out of 7. Being unique won't get you anywhere. Being efficient and flexible however, will.

[Smasholays]

Re: Greatsword

To be straight, there's no such thing as noble/evil in this game. There's only the role of the jobs.
And as dark knight, you fall under the damage dealing catagory.
Which will compete with warrior + monk + thief + dragoon + samurai + ranger + other dark knights.
You are 1 choice out of 7. Being unique won't get you anywhere. Being efficient and flexible however, will.

QFT...

[Langolier]

Re: Greatsword

Samurai, and Dark Knight both commonly sub thf, yet in my personal opinion the concept of a samurai or dark knight does not allow for a thf sub. Both, again in my opinion, are too noble for the thf sub...

They are very effective for skillchains and I see the high level validity of the combination but I'm not sure I'm willing to do it.

Well, in concept, sure. However... this is a game and the combination of /THF for both DRK and SAM works very well. It depends on how you imagine it. The SAM or DRK isn't "making use of thieving techniques" to steal or commit crimes, but rather they are relying soley on a Thief's technique at striking at an enemy while he is unaware to bypass his defense. DRK's and SAM's are brave, sure, but they aren't stupid and blind bravery is stupidity.

You bring up an interesting point though. I wonder what exactly SE's reasoning is behind the Justice torque giving Scythe and Great Katana skill? I wish they'd be a bit more vocal about their concepts behind the jobs.

As far as I can gather the 'nobility' behind the DRK job is sacrifice without the need of reward. To be true to yourself regardless of the consequences. Whether that means you are an evil person or a noble one; come as you are. ( Nervana)

[Wiseman40]

Re: Greatsword

Good post Langolier.

I may jump on the /thf bandwagon if I find myself without a party at high levels for annoying lengths of time.

I don't want to be unappealing, and I do want to be able to compete in the game environment, but I can't look at the game the way Jei does and be happy.

Although what Jei says is completely true, and realistic, and the best way to be successful, I can never look at any game that has a coherant theme, and then strip the theme away.
I also don't want to shed my conceptions of these jobs.

This is Final Fantasy, and as such I want to see fantasy, not just numbers. In my opinion, combinations like sam/thf and drk/thf are just numbers.


I know there are many valid arguments against what I'm saying here. One of them being that FFXI is a social, party-centric design and that successful players cater to that design to succeed. I think it's unfortunate that in order to do that people need to employ what I consider unlikely combinations such as drk/thf. By the way, I say unlikely because I can't see SE writing a drk/thf type character into one of their storylines. A dark knight in a Final Fantasy story is much more likely to be /war or /blm in concept. /war is still practical for some situations in FFXI and I intend to level it to 75 and see how I do. /blm is not practical, so I won't try it, but it's one of those combinations that I wish did work.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Greatsword

you are still in the mindset of console and single player RPGs.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Greatsword

you are still in the mindset of console and single player RPGs.

I know it seems that way. Honestly I havn't played a console game in almost 10 years. I don't even own one anymore. I havn't played a single player game in many years as well, and the last one I played was Neverwinter Nights, which has nothingt to do with this.

Most of the gaming I've been doing over the last decade has been MMORPGs.

Situations like what I'm describing with the drk/thf problem, and the problem with the greatsword, are unique to FFXI.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Greatsword

that's cause FFXI is unique
and oh so unforgiving at times...