What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

[Celeal]

After party (exp. parties) with a few DNC from level 70+ to merit, I think it is a good time to raise this question, since more and more DNC is reaching level 75:

Which role(s) do you expect a DNC to perform (in general, like exp. parties)?
Note: I am NOT asking for speculation.

I am trying avoid any misunderstanding, confusion or false expectations:
Like in my last party (level 73 ~ 75), the party leader (PUP) /tell me (PLD) that a DNC was going to main heal....

Did the DNC main heal in my last party?
Well, thinking back based on the DNC's performance, I think the party leader just assumed DNC would main heal, but the DNC might not know what she was signed up for in that party.

Did the PUP (party leader) use his pet to main healer? Only a few battles... then he switch his pet to DD most of time....

Bad news for PLD (me).... no Refresher or Main Healer .... Or I guess I was the main healer since I cast most of the Cures~ in that party..... Orz (gain some exp. with a few deaths in the party)

To make the long story short, I had seen DNC fill-in roles like pulling, support (I am not so sure, my DNC only at lvl 10).

What is your opinion ^^?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

I expect DNC to be the main source of direct cure, but not the sole healer.

Of course, most mages to not understand that, and so I expect them to either over-cure or under-cure when a Dancer is in party. ._.

[Coinspinner]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

When I group with DNC as SCH I just Regen 1/2 and enfeeble/nuke. When somebody drops below a certain threshold (depends on target's TP moves) I'll throw a Cure. Also if the DNC himself is being targeted too frequently. TP healing is too good to let go to waste. From the time DNC learned Curing Waltz up till now at Crawlers' Nest it's worked out well, and given me the freedom to exploit both Arts. I'm looking forward to seeing how that duo works out at higher levels.

[Zempten]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

At low lvls (I want to say up to 30 - after the mandies), we can main heal just fine. However at the same time we can also co-tank with another DNC up to around 40 as /NIN and bouncing hate back and forth. We can also pull easily at any lvl however I've found that imps are the worst thing for me to pull. This is mainly b/c only a few jobs can sleep them. So pulling early hurts and timing it just right is tricky.

Personally I felt that at lvl 50 was when my tanking abilities started to diminish. DDs just did too much to pull hate away with simple cures and wasting 2 Finishing Moves for Animated Flourish only to not have the mob change focus was pointless. I'd much rather had save the 2 Finishing Moves for Reverse Flourish or throw in a Violent Flourish for a little extra DMG and maybe Stun to even out the Finishing Moves. Of course, if your DDs are lacking you'll easily pull hate. It's really simple to observe.

I've also found that once Haste Samba is obtained and any Samba afterwards drains TP ALOT. As in, it's on a 1 min recast and 1 min duration. This prevents me from MAIN healing (as in I'm the only one) as it constantly eats up my TP. I've found that at this point on I needed a backup healer to keep things smoothly.

Now I'm stuck at lvl 70 and it's impossible for me to not have a backup healer. I keep my Sambas up all the time when the mob is @ the PT. I help Cure. I hardly ever WS b/c everytime I do something bad happens and I wished I had save my TP. However on that note, I can comfortably WS when there are 2 mages (1 never seems to be enough, regardless of job).

Now about my WS, they ranged from 200-600 in my time lvling DNC. 200 as in when I initially got DE and it slowly uped to 300/400. Now at 70, I can hit 400/500 consistantly and sometimes 600 (I'm guess it's because I criticalled some hits in DE).
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About the DNC and SCH duo, I static myself with my girlfriend's SCH. It works out well. The thought that SCH can always back me up is a great relief and Accension + Regen II along with Drain Samba 3 in the works is GREAT for keeping HP up after some nasty -ga spell or AE move. Also a Divine Waltz from myside and a Curaga from SCH also helps alot against those flys that like to spam AE. The combo works pretty well. I would say like a RDM + WHM.

[Esoa]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

Up to lvl 40 I expect the Dancer to provide a lot of the curing plus whatever buffs/debuffs they have. Not sure if they can main heal or if I would even want them to, though I have had very good parties with 2 dancers healing and no MP user.

[Celeal]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

That is interesting ^^'

I haven't level up low ~ mid level job for a while, so I don't have much chance to see DNCs in action at those level (except 1 or 2 parties in Kazham).

Another question is why most DNC/NIN at high levels? In majority of times in ToAU, I seen the DNC/NIN's shaodws is wiped by AoE, instead of mob's single hits. In terms of tools or TP gain, in my humble opinion, there are better subjob choices.

[Zempten]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

In an ideal setting, /WAR or even /SAM would be good subs. They work, I've tried . . .and then I got killed by incompetent tanks or DDs who pretend their Provoke is invisible.

I /NIN b/c I'd rather make more exp going out of a PT then less. It's really just that simple. Sure, there are times when I get a REALLY good PT then I'll just /WAR. Honestly, I like /WAR more then /SAM. Sure the Meditate is great and all, but I find I don't have problems with keeping TP up in most of the settings I'm in (there being a backup healer - you need one anyways b/c who knows if someone might die? do you really want to look around other PTs for a Raise?). Perhaps if I had to be the only single person healing, I'd /SAM just to be on the safe side. However, I always have at least 1 mage so it just boils down to /WAR or /NIN depending on the skill of the PT members. It's almost always /NIN.

What AEs are you talking about? The only AEs that I've come across that wipe my shadows are Imp's -ga spells I think in TOAU.

[Sabaron]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

I partied with one Dancer thus far at 60th level (ish). They were subbing /NIN, which I thought was a bit of a waste, and they were conserving their weapon skills in favor of dances. This was on a Puk camp, so it made it much easier on our main healer who was a WHM. It also really perked up the MP pool of our Paladin tank. Admirable XP rate, though I would have preferred /SAM and a bit more WS action to increase the speed with so much healing already available from PLD/WAR, WHM/SMN, BRD/WHM (me), and DNC/NIN. DNC/SAM could easily have made it a bit better.

I see DNC filling the "inverse paladin" role as a Damage Dealing Healer in that their capacity for healing efficiently seems a bit greater than their capacity to do damage. Dancer complements the White Mage healer nicely since the White Mage has no self-refresh or convert and is reliant on an outside source to maintain mp levels. The DNC provides a very nice bridge in place of a red mage especially in AoE camps.

[Celeal]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

...
What AEs are you talking about? The only AEs that I've come across that wipe my shadows are Imp's -ga spells I think in TOAU.

Imps and Sea Puks

[Sabaron]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

Imps and Sea Puks

Sea Puk attacks don't completely wipe shadows, I think they take two IIRC (Wind Shear) or just go right through them (Obfuscate/Crosswind) without removing them.

[Celeal]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

Sea Puk attacks don't completely wipe shadows, I think they take two IIRC (Wind Shear) or just go right through them (Obfuscate/Crosswind) without removing them.

I am not trying to say /nin has a problem. From the DNC I had seen in lvl 70+ does not pull much hate (compare to those MNKs, WARs, SAMs, etc)... in my humble opinion, it is a waste of gil to have shadows if hate is not an issue.

[Zempten]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

For Puks, sometimes they eat my shadows and sometimes they go through it. I think it's a hit or miss.

Oh and the most important reason why we can't main heal (only me in a PT of all DDs) is b/c ALL of our cures are under a single category. So if you encounter a mob that says Cursed Sphere and keeps beating on the tank or whoever and then Cursed Sphere, what can you do? Or if you encounter an Imp that just Thundaga your PT and keeps beating on whoever, what can you do? Divine? Curing Waltz? This is what makes it most difficult/almost impossible to main heal.

Your right, it's just a safety precaution why I /NIN. I guess it's just b/c of my bad luck with my PTs. If I'm with my LS or people I really trust, I'd be /WAR on the fly or /SAM.

[Esoa]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

I partied with one Dancer thus far at 60th level (ish). They were subbing /NIN, which I thought was a bit of a waste, and they were conserving their weapon skills in favor of dances. This was on a Puk camp, so it made it much easier on our main healer who was a WHM. It also really perked up the MP pool of our Paladin tank. Admirable XP rate, though I would have preferred /SAM and a bit more WS action to increase the speed with so much healing already available from PLD/WAR, WHM/SMN, BRD/WHM (me), and DNC/NIN. DNC/SAM could easily have made it a bit better.

A dancer probably wasn't appropriate for that PT setup. You can overload on support.

[LilithAngel]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

Once I hit 40 on Dancer, TP didn't seem to be much of a problem, but I can see how /SAM would definately ramp that up. It would put the DNC into more of the DD/Support category, instead of just pure support. My only trick right now is trying to find that balance between accuracy for TP, and STR/Attack to do damage for said TP.

Looking forward to 46 and those +1 Bone Knives.

[Sabaron]

Re: What is DNC's role interpret by FFXI community

A dancer probably wasn't appropriate for that PT setup. You can overload on support.

I wouldn't really complain about a chain 5+ group generally, but yeah, I agree that we could've had something other than the Dancer. Replacing the WHM or the BRD wouldn't really be an option, so where does that leave Dancer?
As Zempten said, all of their cures are on the same timer--use one, lock out all. Dancer is a healer but not really a primary support healer--they can't function autonomously without subbing WHM to supplement their TP cures. I think of the Dancer as a DD first and a healer second. Their Damage Over Time is what produces their healing ability. I wouldn't invite a Dancer as a main healer. I would invite them as a DD with bonus support--their flexibility allows me to do other things with the rest of my party like go for more specialized DD jobs. I think Dancer's role as a main healer isn't really viable except circumstantially, but PUP/DNC using Soulsoother is a generally acceptable main healer role. I'm more inclined to encourage DNC to use TP to attack as well as provide support. People want it to be a White Mage--it's not. People want it to be a Paladin--it's not. It's a Dancer. It's a DD with a minor in healing.