Cor/brd??

[Kailea]

Ok I know before I left this was a bad idea, but with the new changes to that combo, is it a good idea? What makes me think about it is 2 dice and one song

[CalamityKate]

Re: Cor/brd??

There are two good uses to cor/brd:

1. in Valkurm Dunes, when your job isn't really defined yet. You aren't shooting, so what are you doing between rolls ?
- You can go cor/whm and backup heal. That's what a lot of people are doing; the problem is that you will have very little MP.
- You can go cor/war and backup tank. Dunes parties lack hate control more than anything else, including healing power; one more Provoke might be more useful than one more /whm. I did just that, because I'm Elvaan, and I have the HP to take hits more than the MP for a whm sub.
- Or, you can go cor/brd and play complete support. Minne, Minuet and Paeon (especially Paeon) can really help your party there and reduce downtime a lot. The half potency of songs isn't too noticeable at those low levels; cor/brd is a serious option, and might be the best one depending on the party setup.

2. when you're pulling in manaburns. 5xblm, 1xcor/brd.
In a manaburn, subbing Ranger is totally pointless: you're not supposed to do damage, you're just supposed to refresh and buff the blms, and pull and Light Shot the mobs for them to kill.
So, of course you can always sub Ninja, it's the safe option, but if you know how to shoot from a distance, you shouldn't need those shadows. What sub can offer a better performance for your job ? Bard ! 1 more MP/tick of Refresh for those blms is nothing to laugh at, especially when your Evoker's Roll is so unreliable. Roll Evoker's, roll Wizard's or Warlock's, and sing Ballad. It can make or break your chain #5, which makes a noticeable difference on experience gained.

Apart from those situations, and maybe other ones that I have overlooked, Bard doesn't really make a good sub for Corsair. With half-level skill and no instruments, you probably won't stick any debuffs, and the potency of your buffs will be halved. You won't be adding that much support compared to your native rolls ; chances are you'll be more beneficial to your party by simply dealing damage, which is half of what a Corsair is for !

Conclusion: situational sub. Good to have. Don't use it by default (the default should always be /rng), but exert your judgment, there might be special settings where /brd competes with other subs.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Cor/brd??

I'll have to disagree with Kate over the "situational" status of COR/BRD. As soon as I hit 50 COR, I immediately subbed BRD (had been using /NIN up to that point). There was an initial adjustment period to my combat prowess, but as soon as I got over that, I found that my damage output was only reduced due to the amount of buffing I was doing, not because I didn't have a DD sub, while my buffs were more reliable and effective overall. I took COR/BRD all the way to 60, and my DD never suffered to the point where it mattered at all.

COR/BRD is a really strong combo as a support set-up, and yes, it *can* still do a good job DDing on the side. Its focus is support, though, but regardless of half level skill and no instrument, remember this: some buff > no buff. Always.

I completely enjoyed COR/BRD, and would pick that as my sub as much as /NIN or /RNG any day.

(the default should be /nin, /brd, *and* /rng)

Fixed. Have all three.

[Vyuru]

Re: Cor/brd??

COR/BRD is a really strong combo as a support set-up, and yes, it *can* still do a good job DDing on the side. Its focus is support, though, but regardless of half level skill and no instrument, remember this: some buff > no buff. Always.

Well, not just that, but look at the +att/acc songs (I always forget their names)

With a bard subjob, and using the best +acc or +att song, would that be equivilant to the Hunter's or Chaos Rolls with or without their respective jobs in the party?

I would be very curious to know if you could use other corsair rolls because bard song X was as good, almost as good, or even better than a particular corsair roll.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Cor/brd??

I've found that using the Acc/Att songs have let me experiment with other rolls without sacrificing too much efficacy as a buffer. I generally tend to enjoy tossing out an Acc song with Fighter's and Rogue's Rolls, and watch the damage fly.

And not a single party has *ever* complained about my base 2(3*)mp/tick Refresh cycle. Just by that fact alone I had a repeat invite at least twice.

*-Summoner was the main heal a couple of times.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Cor/brd??

With a bard subjob, and using the best +acc or +att song, would that be equivilant to the Hunter's or Chaos Rolls with or without their respective jobs in the party?

I would be very curious to know if you could use other corsair rolls because bard song X was as good, almost as good, or even better than a particular corsair roll.

Attack songs (Minuets) from /BRD gets less impressive as the level goes higher since they depend on singing skills, I think. COR50/BRD25 gets:
Lv.23 Valor Minuet II:
Caps at +32 Attack.
+14 Attack with 105-108 Singing Skill on support job.
+15 Attack with 109-114 Singing Skill on support job.
+16 Attack with 117 Singing Skill on support job.

So, assuming comparing COR50/BRD25 vs. BRD50, then the BRD would have:
Lv.43 Valor Minuet III:
Caps at +48 Attack.
Cornette +1 adds +5 Attack.


Every little bit helps, I guess, but /BRD's best asset is Ballad (and possibly Finale), with the melee buffs being minor perks on the side.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Cor/brd??

Ok I know before I left this was a bad idea, but with the new changes to that combo, is it a good idea? What makes me think about it is 2 dice and one song

What "new" changes are you referring to? /COR got stealth boosted, otherwise SE made it so you can have two rolls and one song as COR/BRD and two songs and one roll as BRD/COR. The song for COR/BRD would still be less than half the power of BRD main (halved singing skill and no access to instruments)

2. when you're pulling in manaburns. 5xblm, 1xcor/brd.

In a manaburn, subbing Ranger is totally pointless: you're not supposed to do damage, you're just supposed to refresh and buff the blms, and pull and Light Shot the mobs for them to kill.

So, of course you can always sub Ninja, it's the safe option, but if you know how to shoot from a distance, you shouldn't need those shadows. What sub can offer a better performance for your job ? Bard ! 1 more MP/tick of Refresh for those blms is nothing to laugh at, especially when your Evoker's Roll is so unreliable. Roll Evoker's, roll Wizard's or Warlock's, and sing Ballad. It can make or break your chain #5, which makes a noticeable difference on experience gained.

You have quite an active imagination, but this isn't how COR manaburns. COR/NIN all the way here. Even as obscenely accurate and potent as Light Shot is for sleep, Light Shot alone does not make COR cook in manaburn, /NIN is a big part of it.

COR doesn't have the luxury of two sleeps like a BRD, so COR usually is playing decoy and manaburn targets usually consist of BLM mobs. Hence, COR requires the shadows /NIN provides with Utsusemi. It can also be used for light blink tanking when Light Shot is down.

Sure, you can pull from a max safe distance, but that does very little for claim when you're in competitive camp. You have to be fast, aggressive and must be willing take the heat of an AM or Tier IV so your BLMs can get the drop on a mob and keep chains high. You'll need Utsusemi to do that. The only thing you'd ever run from is a -aga spell.

When Light Shot isn't available, COR uses bullets to play Decoy Tank. I have to actually tell my BLMs to not stun Tier IVs and AMs, I'll take those if it means they can kill the mob without distracting it. Its a very solid approach so long as you stay mindful of your shadows

Additionally, you must use Light Shot as a means of gaining a pre-emptive strike or stopping a mob from going after a BLM in the mist of a Tier IV cascade. And more often than not, you're after the next mob when one is already pissed at you and the BLMs are nuking it..

Furthermore, give your BLMs some credit. They don't come unprepared for MP recovery. They keep +hMP gear, they keep vermys or black cloaks, they probably came with Sanction, too.

Evoker's Roll is usually more than sufficient and when you take that chain #3 pause, Healer's Roll is very powerful as well. Most of the time, though, its just Evoker's Roll and Wizard's Roll.

I soooo need to do a manaburn topic, I keep slacking. I can elaborate better elsewhere.

Anyway, /BRD for Ballad here is just overcompensating and worse, wasting valuble time you could be claiming the next mob and push that chain higher.

That aside, I just see /BRD as overcompensating in general, its not a standard sub, its fringe at best. It could be nice for endgame BLM PTs for HNMs and such, but much like /WHM in the core EXP levels, it serves no real purpose and does nothing for COR's DD abilities.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Cor/brd??

I think /BRD and /NIN are both good for manaburn. Shadows are nice to have, but not necessary... and, strictly by the numbers, any damage you take via your lack of shadows is more than made up for by the extra MP you're generating via Ballad.

In manaburn, I always roll Evoker's + Corsair's... Wizard's/Warlock's simply don't increase kill speed enough to be worth it. With BLMs, kill speed is not an issue.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Cor/brd??

I think /BRD and /NIN are both good for manaburn. Shadows are nice to have, but not necessary... and, strictly by the numbers, any damage you take via your lack of shadows is more than made up for by the extra MP you're generating via Ballad.

Can't agree.

I can't trust BLM/RDMs to focus on curing people consistantly enough to consider subbing /BRD for one more MP a tick. /BRD isn't going to help me stay competitive on claim, either. Manaburn is no less competitive than TP burns half the time.

By the time you hit the teens in a chain everything is dead anyway and its time to rest up. BLM's equipment + Rolls covers all MP needs. /BRD is just overkill.

Plus, in the event I do die, I can just get up and start pulling again without waiting if I go /NIN.

In manaburn, I always roll Evoker's + Corsair's... Wizard's/Warlock's simply don't increase kill speed enough to be worth it. With BLMs, kill speed is not an issue.

Depends on the BLMs. If they've got AM2s and lots of merits, there's no point to Wizard/Warlock's at all. But if they're new and adapting to high level manaburn, I'm more inclined to get them in the zone with Wizard's/Evoker's before I start tossing Corsair's Roll in there.

I start off with Wizard's to Evoker's, at chain #3 we rest and I roll Healer's Just as we're aiming to start #4 I roll COR roll, they Evoker's again. This should hold out to chain #13 at least.

[Kailea]

Re: Cor/brd??

ok I see alot of people talking about end game, but lets just say this is for only 37 and below

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Cor/brd??

ok I see alot of people talking about end game, but lets just say this is for only 37 and below

Umm.... It's good in Valkrum Dunes for Paeon. Provided that there's no BRD in party who wants to use it, and the healers aren't too dumb to over cure and top off everyone at the end of battle?

The attack/accuracy boost is likely to be minimal, from my experience as DRG/BRD. It was barely worth the effort to use melee buff songs...

When does COR get decent bullets? That's when /RNG will beat up most support jobs, unless the party needs some backup cures from /WHM (bring juice). Or you can go /NIN; the COR in my LS said around Lv.30 there's some r.acc dagger or something for Dual Wield, which puts you about on par with /RNG and provide safety for the "average" puller. (Feeling too lazy to look it up right now.)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Cor/brd??

ok I see alot of people talking about end game, but lets just say this is for only 37 and below

/BRD will work OK at lower levels because the singing caps aren't so restrictive to your buffing ability, but the loss is felt over time and generally /BRD is just for ballad when you get past 50.

Honestly, I don't see why RDMs or even CORs rave about one more MP a tick. There's so many ways you can grab more MP and with todays update, COR could stand a shot at being the most solid refresher in the game. On top of that, there's just so much more to gain from other subjobs.

Another issue I take with /BRD is the same I take with /NIN - no JAs or Traits I can take advantage of for COR main. Nothing to lend to my abilities and its mostly for the sake of charity. /WHM, at the very least, makes more sense to me in that regard since I'll get MP returns than enable me to help others without become an easier target (Blink/SS).

/BRD may as well paint a bullseye on themselves. But as I said, high level BLMs have it good on MP recovery, so I fail to see the point in /BRD.

When does COR get decent bullets? That's when /RNG will beat up most support jobs, unless the party needs some backup cures from /WHM (bring juice). Or you can go /NIN; the COR in my LS said around Lv.30 there's some r.acc dagger or something for Dual Wield, which puts you about on par with /RNG and provide safety for the "average" puller. (Feeling too lazy to look it up right now.)

The good bullets start at 22, but /RNG's accuracy bonus isn't really felt until archer's knives and noct armor come into play. So you can pretty much sword it to 22 and sword + gun it to 30. After 30, no point in sword melee again til 70.

[wrongfeifong]

Re: Cor/brd??

out of curiousity how much dmg you even contribute to the party overall?
Have anyone even consider that before? Measure it at least?

Personnally, i still can't look at how much corsair does in dmg compare to the party. Assuming, guns are extremely slow and missing rate higher then a rng would even do. My expectation is not high.

At a TP burning or Mana burning party, would you even have a chance to fire off your guns? (i have yet to try burning party but i heard enough details) Consider, it is competitive and such.

Nothing wrong playing a complete support job, since even the lowest brd buff is comparable to ours without job bonus. It wouldn't hurt to have the buff in. Considering if the party of drk could be benefit having more ACC which allot 1 extra hits, that hits would already cover the dmg lost by /rng or /nin. Not to mention you still have ballad to give out.

I would love to see a log of corsair @ 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75 (don't talk about endgame most people here only care about leveling it)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Cor/brd??

out of curiousity how much dmg you even contribute to the party overall?
Have anyone even consider that before? Measure it at least?

I don't run a parser, but at my level I can do 400-600 on Barrage with /RNGand 500-800 on Slug shots. At low level you pretty much TP with a gun getting about 14-16 TP per shot, but later COR can equip a Joyeuse and TP fairly quickly, so I can get 100 per fight with little issue.

Plus the majority of mobs fought these days are weak to piercing damage, which is exactly what guns do.

Personnally, i still can't look at how much corsair does in dmg compare to the party. Assuming, guns are extremely slow and missing rate higher then a rng would even do. My expectation is not high.

There is a high delay, yes, but you also get more TP in return for that high delay than you would just by poking a mob with a dagger. we're talking 14-16 TP per hit here. and with /RNG's traits, /RNG latent gear, sushi and all the ranged accuracy you can equip, its not that hard to land a shot on the average mob.

Put simply, a good COR can put up good numbers, they'll get supassed by dedicated damage dealers in the long run, but they'll contribute more to the damage pool than a RDM could ever hope to by melee. Parties don't invite CORs to DD per se, but they'll still expect it from you, with the exception of manaburn and TP burn (sometimes).

At a TP burning or Mana burning party, would you even have a chance to fire off your guns? (i have yet to try burning party but i heard enough details) Consider, it is competitive and such.

Yes and no. If no BRD is in PT, a COR can expect to be asked to pull if no other job is willing to. To be perfectly honest, in that scenario, even with a THF present, a COR should be pulling. At 72+ - the prime TP burn levels - COR gets access to the lowest delay gun in the game, the Peacemaker, making them a very competitive puller. Its also our best gun for Quick Draw accuracy.

And pulling as COR at this level is very similar to how BRD does it. You go /NIN and use Light Shot to sleep mobs during the current fight to stage the next fight. If there are enough DD in PT to quickly kill the mob, a COR's DD is not needed.

But if you do have a BRD, then COR can kick back and mix it up on the frontlines, which is where /RNG is back in the picture kicking ass.

Manaburn is similar, but you're not gonna DD here at all, even with a BRD.

COR is versitile, so it doesn't have to be played one way.

Nothing wrong playing a complete support job, since even the lowest brd buff is comparable to ours without job bonus. It wouldn't hurt to have the buff in. Considering if the party of drk could be benefit having more ACC which allot 1 extra hits, that hits would already cover the dmg lost by /rng or /nin. Not to mention you still have ballad to give out.

Rather than downplay /RNG and /NIN from your lack of experience, you could give them a fair shake, level them and apply them to the main job. /RNG adds signifigant damage to the DD side of the PT, COR doesn't need to sit back and let /BRD Minuets make it up for him because the damage isn't THAT vicarious.

I would love to see a log of corsair @ 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75 (don't talk about endgame most people here only care about leveling it)

There are plenty of Corsair forums out there with CORs posting thier parsers, I don't know why you doubt our capability to do damage. I think you just keep fishing for excuses not to level a proper sub. /BRD is more of a fringe endgame subjob. Its hardly the best EXP sub, I'd even rank /WHM and /NIN over it.

/BRD isn't useless, but its not exactly needed, either.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Cor/brd??

out of curiousity how much dmg you even contribute to the party overall?
Have anyone even consider that before? Measure it at least?

Don't get to exp with COR's much, but I do remember being very pleasantly surprised by a COR/NIN during Lv.40's a long while back. No clue what I did with the parses, but he definitely nailed the Phantom Rolls and contributed much to the damage output himself (herself?). (The player had very good gears; everything Blue and White bordered. @_@ )

Put it this way, the COR/WHM in my LS regularly managed to take the mobs away from NIN tanks when using Slugshots after the second provoke. There's little doubt COR is designed to contribute substantially to a party's damage output.

At a TP burning or Mana burning party, would you even have a chance to fire off your guns? (i have yet to try burning party but i heard enough details) Consider, it is competitive and such.

Hmm. What do you expect COR's to pull with? Darts? If they are not pulling, then they would have the time to get in a few shots during the 1 minute cool down time between Phantom Rolls.