New Power for Blms with update

[Rones]

Everyone was so worried about a blm nerf, I suspect many overlooked a possible boost for blms.

For years we have heard blm/smns cheer about their autorefresh, but it fails at the lack of support abilties. However, now we can get the best of both worlds at 70+. With a pld sub you can get the autorefresh of smn and the cures of whm. The price you pay is you don't get the massive mp from smn, the -na spells from whm, curagas, and some whm utility spells. Is 1,200 free mp an hour worth that price? Ultimately it is up to you.

While I have always been quick to dismiss blm/smn due to its inability to even cure itself, blm/pld (as silly as it looks) fixes that. You lose some versitility with pld sub, but it has a lot more than smn sub. In exp situations without heavy aoe or status effect dmgs, this sub could prove useful. Thoughts?

[neighbortaru]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

the other job changes (BLM included) are yet to happen

as for BLM/pld, it's just as stupid as BLM/smn. No INT boost, no MP boost, very little spells of use (omg Flash) and you are just as vulnerable, or more, as /smn (no blink, no SS).

[Rones]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

very little spells of use (omg Flash)

Cure3? It would be less vunerable than smn because it has sentinal, two defence up traits, and curing.

No INT boost, no MP boost

Whm doesn't give an int boost either. Max mp is largely irrevelent 70+.

Yes, I stated the loss of stoneskin would warrent consideration. However, for the many blms that neglect using stoneskin or don't get themselves hit much, this is a viable option. At the veery least, it is superior to smn sub.

Please stop and consider it before dismissing. Changes have been made, and this warrents a look.

[Jei]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

I can't think of any situation that blm/pld will benefit...
even soloing I still can't see a good use of blm/pld. No ws granted, blm don't use shields, losing out phalanx... I think erase and phalanx alone over come auto refresh in terms of usefulness already.

[DigitalisAkujin]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Ok honestly I'll stick to my RDM sub and WHM sub (occasionaly).

But here's my analysis:
SMN sub gives u one INT and you still get Blink. The safety of an avatar is also nice when you consider trying to make an escape.

PLD on the other hand won't give you much protection. Sure you'll get a few points of defense but at the cost of phalanx and stoneskin?

Speaking of MP: very important.

When I solo limbus the amount of MP determines how much dmg I can do before I sleep a mob. Right now due to my humeness I can take out 45% of a mobs HP on first floor appolyoon. Be nice if I could do all 100%. :-D

[Rones]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Against enemies without heavy status effects what good does erase do you? If there is alread a whm and rdm in the party, even less need. You can still help cure though. Phalanx is pretty insignifigant against exp mobs as they already hit so hard. Sentinal and 2 defence traits would off set phalanx. Rdm is considered acceptable and much like subbing pld, except you don't get stoneskin, fastcast, or dispel with pld, but you do get autorefresh. 1,200 mp an hour will really up your dmg in a more focused party setting without totally sacrificing versitility. Not all parties need curagas or -nas. I've learned this from enough time as brd/whm.

SMN sub gives u one INT and you still get Blink. The safety of an avatar is also nice when you consider trying to make an escape

Smn's blink isn't a factor because it has such a high mp cost and slow to get out. Avatars provide no safety when subbed because they are so weak. They can't get hate and if they could, they would die in seconds against anything even DC to you. Smn isn't an option for blms to sub.

[DigitalisAkujin]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Yes it is.

1) You get blink anyway so it's not insignifigant.
2) Avatars do technecally provide enough safety for one hit.

And in terms of option to sub. Only in manaburn for refresh and for extra one INT.

[Jei]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Smn's blink isn't a factor because it has such a high mp cost and slow to get out. Avatars provide no safety when subbed because they are so weak. They can't get hate and if they could, they would die in seconds against anything even DC to you. Smn isn't an option for blms to sub.

As you said, Smn isn't an option for blms to sub. And SMN already gives the same Auto refresh, more protection, more MP and more INT compare to PLD already.

[DigitalisAkujin]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

As you said, Smn isn't an option for blms to sub. And SMN already gives the same Auto refresh, more protection, more MP and more INT compare to PLD already.

It's an option for manaburn onry.

[Rones]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

As you said, Smn isn't an option for blms to sub. And SMN already gives the same Auto refresh, more protection, more MP and more INT compare to PLD already.

Smn isn't an option because it has no party support abilties. However, subbing pld gives a blm cures so he can still help his party while taking the best from smn, autorefresh. A blm could also through out a flash if needed. It works much like stun in its hate amount and effect (rare does the enemy hit while flashed). Max mp is irrevelent at 70+. What matters is how fast you can regain it. Since smn isn't an option, pld is the next best at maximizing your mp regain.

1) You get blink anyway so it's not insignifigant.
2) Avatars do technecally provide enough safety for one hit.

1) Blink at a cost of 100mp+ with super long cast time as you summon and dismiss garuda? No thanks.
2) Like I said, your avatar would never get hate. Let's say you get in trouble in the middle of a fight, not only would casting escape take an equal amount of time as summoning and sicing the avatar, but the avatar couldn't steal hate and would die in seconds if he did.

However, my point is pld fixes the problem with subbing smn.

[Coinspinner]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

BLM/RDM use Phalanx for things that actually matter? News to me. I stopped at 69 so I can't comment on 70+ leveling. I can say that I felt /SMN wasn't worth the bother to level. /PLD seems a little better but still not worth the time. Too many conditions to be met before it becomes acceptable, and I rarely felt my Cure III was even helpful.

[Kafeen]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Auto-refresh will only give you about 1 more decent spell every 15 minites. You could get the MP from resting under a minite. If you're at the point where you don't have enough MP for a spell when you need it auto-refresh isn't going to help.

[Rones]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Auto-refresh will only give you about 1 more decent spell every 15 minites. You could get the MP from resting under a minite. If you're at the point where you don't have enough MP for a spell when you need it auto-refresh isn't going to help.

1mp per 3 sec = 20 mp per min = 300 mp per 15 min = 1,200 mp per hour. Since when does 300 mp only give you one more decent spell per 15 mins? Last I checked 300 mp also took a decent amount of resting, even for us 75s. I thought one of main end game goals was to maximize mp regain. Guess I should get rid of my dark staff too since if I don't have enough mp for a spell, nothing is going to help. At worst, its more mp than you would otherwise have with any other sub (except smn which isn't an option).

[Balfree]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Auto-Refresh > No Auto-Refresh

Stoneskin Blink Phalanx+Dispel+Fast Cast+Enfeeble Bonus+Gravity/Erase+Divine Seal+Haste+Auto-Regen+ -na Spells+Curagas+Raise > Auto-Refresh+Defense bonuses

In mostly every situation honestly.

[kazuri]

Re: New Power for Blms with update

Points from both sides are valid, but honestly I do think BLM/PLD will have its uses but when it comes down to soloing (or in some cases, EXP) RDM or WHM sub will be more preferred. Status-na series, defensive Stoneskin/Blink/Phalanx, MND/MP stat bonuses are big things to lose. However, like I stated above, in terms of EXP PT having /PLD could be a considerable choice now. The loss of -na spells and extra MND/MP would hurt yes, but /PLD isn't -not- considerable. Rones mentioned Flash, and I think it sounds potentially good. Sometimes BLMs grab a bit too much hate too, Sentinal+Defense boost traits would help reduce HP loss which would in return save more MP. Sure, you say Stoneskin-Phalanx can do the same but those 2 spells themselves cost MP.

In my opinion, the -one single job- that will probably be able to use /PLD to its fullest advantage is BRD. You gain an excellent Auto-refresh and you still have the most useful (and frequently used) cure series. Ah, and of course- when you're getting whacked a Sentinal wouldn't hurt. Sure, you're losing -na from /WHM but you're getting Auto-Refresh which could possibly make up for it... and when you have a BRD in your party, chances are you'll have a SMN/WHM or WHM anyway.