Question on hate from spells

[Karinya]

Re: Question on hate from spells

Your method could theoretically work, but in practice you'll rarely, if ever, know the hate situation precisely enough to make that kind of calculation accurately (plus the hate you gain will depend on whether or not you are resisted). There isn't that much difference between a full-damage Aero and a full-damage Blizzard to begin with. Similar methods do become useful later (e.g. Blizzard II now, then a few seconds later Blizzard III/Blizzaga II for the kill), but in that case you aren't having to choose between elements with different resist rates anyway, and the difference between the big spell and the small spell is much larger.

Holding a big spell until it will finish off the enemy and thus TP and hate become irrelevant is an important technique for BLM and don't let Icemage scare you off from it. It *can* go bad like he describes, but rarely and in general the benefits outweigh the risks. Resists are not that common for low level BLM IMO, unless you are significantly lower level than the rest of the party and they are fighting monsters that are high IT to them. Also, don't forget you can elemental seal. Don't use it needlessly, but not using it is just as much a waste. If you are in an area with particularly high link/add risk, you may need to reserve it for emergency sleeps, but usually you don't need to.

Sometime after 30 resists start to increase steadily, then after 51 it goes back the other way with elemental staves, very fast skill increase between 50 and 60, and high level gear with +elemental skill. (Then if you take on gods it goes back again, but that's mostly because they are ridiculously higher level than you. In high level exp, resists are rare for BLM.)

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Question on hate from spells

It's admirable that you want to know how much hate you're getting, and it's also admirable that you're starting early in your BLM career.

However, I think the questions and situations you've asked are a tad redundant. From what I know about nukes and enfeebles and such, the repliers posted to the best of their knowledge, and I think the issue is your original question =[

In all honesty, paying attention to how much damage you do in a certain period of time is the best way to figure out Hate.

In the lower levels, I would often nuke my ass off, only to get whallopped on while the PLD had 20 seconds on provoke. So if the mob looked like it wasn't so mad at the tank, and you have been doing full damage on your nukes, after a provoke isn't a good time to cast. When there is like a 10second recast left on provoke, then you'll have ample time to cast 2 spells in time for them to save you.

I'll repeat, there is no base way to know how much hate you are building. Just like melees know when to read the chat logs for their partner's TP calls and to pay attention to WS animations and don't need to count the seconds to do a SC after a while, you'll eventually know when to cast, when to sit and when to wait for more front-line hate.

Practice, experience, practice, experience, practice and more experience.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Question on hate from spells

Just ask any BLM at level 50 or higher who has seen a busted Freeze land for 350ish instead of the expected 700+. You should never count on killing something reliably with a spell.

Lvl 69, puller brings a gob and links another gob (a blagger >.<). Ninja went out to look and brings a Dhamel too! ><; On the last gob, the tank dies. The gob is nearly dead so Blizzard 3 for teh win! NOT....50 dmg >< Drk doesn't stun Bomb Toss.....Lvl 68......

In all honesty, paying attention to how much damage you do in a certain period of time is the best way to figure out Hate.


Practice, experience, practice, experience, practice and more experience.

So very true.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Question on hate from spells

I know that If I constantly cast my spells for unresisted damage (being that I am uber, a 650+ Fire 3 not on the MB isn't uncommon >.> ) Tanks will be amazed at the RDM that stole hate. But then again, it's a waste of MP. But BLMs on the other hand do MUCH more damage. You'll get to the point where you might cast 3 spells a fight inbetween rests,, and you'll be throwing out cures, or w/e to keep yourself occupied.

Initial Nuke, rest, wait for MB, bust out 1500+ damage, rest. By this point, the RDM (if they can MB, not every RDM can, sadly) can easily throw in at least 300 damage (in hindsight, that's actually pretty sad now that I mention it), and the good one's will be in the upper 600s (*points to himself*), easily curbing any damage you may have missed.

Oh yeah, enfeebles grab a LOT of hate. When I'm soloing, and someone in my pt provokes the mob off me, I sleep it to get hate back. I remember when I first incorporated my staves into my spells, well, I did notice a marked lowering in resists (hell, from 51-55 they disappeared on those crabs ;.; ) and I also noticed that if I went through all my enfeebles too fast, the mob was quickly running towards me ;.;

[Keitre]

Re: Question on hate from spells

I'd always assumed that damage had nothing to do with spell hate. I say assumed because the last time I tested it was about two years ago with a DRK friend of mine. She'd cast her highest nuke, I'd cast the same spell, and whoever had hate at the end was completely dependent on the order of the nukes landing. This wouldn't be the case if my significantly higher damage made any difference, since our nukes usually landed within a second of each other.

For now, I don't know, they could have changed it. Two years ago, however, damage had nothing to do with spell hate. This would probably be a result of SE constantly tweaking BLM over the years for balance issues.

[Slaneyder the Tiny]

Re: Question on hate from spells

I'm the exact opposite of you, Keitre. I'd always assumed that damage has everything to do with hate.

It might be different with white magic, but this is what I've noticed on my Med Rage:

When powerleveling a friend to 10 (yeahyeah, I'm a terrible person, sue me), I can pop a Cure IV, heal for 12 hp, and not pull hate. Furthermore, I can continue to cast Cure IV and heal for 5-10 damage, and never pull hate at all. Or I can Cure I for 34 hp and get the mob good and riled up. Clearly, in this case, hp healed trumps the hate degree/tier of the spell.

Not always so. Cure V heals for a metric shit-ton of damage, but gives less hate than a Cure III.

As far as black mage goes...everything in my limited experience points to damage as the mitigating factor. But the exact same principle listed above applies in reverse. And just for the record, my black mage is in the mid thirties:

After the tank has set hate and I've stacked the appropriate set of elemental enfeebles, that's when I generally go to work. Now I can Aero for 100, Blizzard for 111, Thunder for 125, and not pull hate. Or I could Water II for 160, Firaga for 160, and get smacked around by a particularly angry mandy.

To me, this doesn't point to a hate association with individual spells, but to a hate association trigger when a mob takes high damage all at once.

But I'm no expert. I'm just some noob leveling this for a sub.

At any rate, I use damage to guage hate, and it's never steered me wrong. Rarely ever will I make my tank work a little harder, and even then, the times I do are just to have an excuse to cast Drain.

[Keitre]

Re: Question on hate from spells

Cure I-IV has no assigned hate, it is strictly the amount of HP healed.
Cure V has assigned hate. You can cure 0 HP or 500 HP with it and it'll always net you the same amount of hate. Two years ago, nukes were the exact same way. It may be as you say now, I'll have to go test it again. I still have a drk friend.