Do RNG outdamage BLMs consistently?

[JayblahX]

I have two questions regarding the position of the two universally accepted "damage Kings" in this game; RNG and BLM.

1. Do RNGs outdmg BLM moreso than BLM outdmg RNG?

2. Do RNGs do more dmg over time than a BLM?

I hope the answer is "no" to both because it seems that BLM get a bum deal them. I admit I'm somewhat new, but Rangers have better survivability and much better farming ability than a Black Mage, so to do more damage on a consistent basis over a BLM would seem like an unfair advantage considering BLM disadvantages.

I know many will respond that RNG have to spend lots of cash to reach/exceed BLM dmg, but I don't think its such a big deal as RNG/THF is supposedly one of the best money-makers in game (Track+THF cash abilities). Also, BLMs spend an enormous amount of money on their spells, which can't be sold at times of upgrades.

[evilution]

depends what you fight, and your group makeup.

I was in a "weird" group 2 days ago that really did good. 2 BLM/WHM 1 RDM/BLM 1 BRD/WHM 1 WHM/BLM (wasted spot, another blm or smn would have been better) and a PLD/WAR.

After a taunt and a flash me and the other BLM would cast 1 ele debuff each (I burned). Then we started in with Blizzard1, Blizzard2, Fire2 and drain when i could.

Once the mob was near 15% life we would both cast a level 3 nuke to finish the mob off.

In a PT like that me and the other BLM were like a RNG on sterroids thanks to the uber MP regen we had downtime was minimal. (130 damage, 300 damage, 260 damage for my nuke cycle).

It was alot of fun

(killing Darters in Boyhoda Tree)

Outside of a group like that a ranger will have a better DOT, where we are great for 1200dmg magic bursts

[shwiggy]

A good rng will almost always outdamage you unless it's a single mob at the end of an xp chain. While they spend a lot of money every xp session blm can get away with spending little (I reeeeeealy don't recommend this but see it all of the time) due to the lack of mages, at least on Midgard. I see 60+ blm with lvl 20 equip getting pt in seconds with only 1/2 of their spells but it doesn't seem to affect the invite rate. Rng is forced to spend a good amount of time farming to be effective. Really, if this rng is in your pt there's no need to complain =)

Also, I dunno about better survivability, they take as much damage or more as I do with similar hps =p

I think too many people count numbers and hold that alone to their job effectiveness. It's more about how far you can get along in the xp chain and handle yourself in a pt than anything on paper can tell you.

[Yuanlung]

Yes, rich rangers can normally outdamage black mages. They can deliver amazing damage in 1 single shot. Also they can do it continuously as long as they have ammo since they need no MP.


However, this doesn't mean they are going to have better DoT. In fact, any damage dealing class will probably end up doing similar damages. The main factor on how much damage you can deal is the ability of your tank to generate hate. It doesn't matter if you are a ranger or a black mage, you have to hold back, or you can suddenly find yourself tanking for your party.


The main difference between the two class is actually secondary attributes rather then damage dealing. Ranger is a good puller for parties, since they require no rest, they can pull in a distance, they have camoflouge to keep them safe when they pull, and they have the ability to save their own hide when they run into trouble from their subjb (thf or nin).


OTOH, black mages brings support and utility to the party. We have the ability to deal with emergencies such as a bad link. Spells like bind, sleep, sleepga, sleep II, escape, warp, and warp II can really save the day. The warp/escape spells are also wonderful to move your party around with. We can pitch in and help the healer when needed.

[Sadeira]

Yes, rich rangers can normally outdamage black mages. They can deliver amazing damage in 1 single shot.

that's probably the key statement right there when it comes to the difference between blm damage and rng damage. rngs need to buy arrows constantly when they go out to exp or they won't be dealing the raw powerful damage that they're there to do. of course, if you play an rng, you also need to be incredibly rich to play it or have good regular income. the rngs in my linkshell regularly spend 20-40k on arrows when they go out to exp. it's not cheap being an rng. when you evaluate an rng for an invitation, you look at what kind of bow they have and what kind of arrows they use so you can be sure that they're doing damage.

on the other hand, black mages don't have to put out that kind of money when they go exp. all we have to do is pay a one time cost for the spell we want to use and we simply cast it till our noses bleed. there are no additional costs for the damage we deal save for our mp. sure, flare is 200,000 gil but it's not like we have to spend 20k-40k for each exp session.

rangers also have to spend money on shihei as well so they can use utsusemi. before an rng does sidewinder on a renkei, they have to use blink so that they don't take huge amounts of damage from the mob until the tank pulls the hate back to themselves. so there's that cost as well.

so basically, an rng can out damage a blm ONLY IF the rng has the money for it.

[poweryoga]

don't froget bullets.... those cost an arm and a leg a stack.

but i do envy how blms can spend a one time cost for spells while we have to spend about 10-20k each time we go out to exp. (i make my own arrows and even that gets expensive overtime)

most expensive is the E-bow that is coveted by all rangers~ (and ammemit mantle +1) but i suppose its the same with vermillion cloak and the staves. ^^

[BALD TARU TARU]

naw not just ammo, gotta have high accuarcy item such as peacock charms, and sniper rings, or else their gonna be like the ranger i had my pt, where he missed 8/10 sidewinders.

[Ruinwraith]

Rangers also farm 3 to 4 times faster than a blm can, I don't pity them for their expenses. Ninja, yes, ranger, no.

But ya, a well equipped ranger will outdamage a blm usually, unless you are in a brd + rdm party.

[Taga]

Like they said depends on the PT. I always am with a BRD and RDM so I do a lot more damage than rangers.

[Viktoria]

Even if a ranger does outdamage you, don't start feeling sorry for yourself. They do spend a TON on equipment as well as constant ammo.

I guess the entire aspect of "play whatever class you like the most" or "play whichever job suits your style" is long gone. Everyone wants "teh ubar l33t" and doesn't give a rat's ass about just sitting back and having a good time. "OMG TEH DRK DID 15 MORE DAMAGE OVERALL THAN ME IN THAT LAST FIGHT. WHY DOES MY CLASS EXIST ITS WORTHLESS OMG OMG OMG INBALANCE"

Let's fret about the miniscule differences in damage style. Let's not look at the real topic, which is difference in play style. BLM does damage during battles (no, REALLY?), is a backup healer, is great support in a pinch with Tractor and Escape. Warp II is a great convenience.

Rangers do damage, and can wide scan. Lots of damage. That's their thing, that's pretty much all they have.

THAT should be your deciding factor. Which do you want to be? But, no, let's not think like that...it makes too much sense.

[joey8392]

I think blm's are better class overall.

[AtraposBLM]

I've yet to be outdamaged by a ranger, I don't know what you guys are talking about ; ;

The problem with the arguement is that black mages are cheap with their food. Most use apple/melon pies. Don't be cheap - a ranger needs thousands of gil to outdamage you in a party, so you should splurge too! Personally, I've been using Apple Pie +1 (melon pie +1 is never in stock >_<), and let me tell you, it makes me damn near godlike. Emptying MP into a mob, I can still have near full MP by the time the puller comes back. It lets you actually use your III line of spells outside of MB's (provided you have the +elemental skill neccessary to land them without many resists), and you become the damage dealing god you were meant to be.

Don't be cheap.

[Shuko]

Don't be cheap, coming from someone using a Fey Wand, Onyx Earrings, Electrum Ring and Eremite's ring? Give me a break.

[AtraposBLM]

....


Currently saving for Ice Staff and Dark Staff. Approximately 1 black mage from level 51-65 that I've seen has both. I'd say it's not a big deal for me not to have them.

Onyx earrings - Honestly, cost-to-amount-helped, these are the best things I'll be wearing. You want me to pay 250-300,000 gil for +4 damage and +4 mp? Right. As if you'd pay 300,000 for +1 strength. Currently, I'm trying to kill Mysticmaker Profblix. I've killed him 2 times with no drop, and gone there 2 times without seeing him. I don't like leeching from people, so I didn't attempt to kill the goblin until I could add to the fight. Now that I'm in the low 60s, all I need is another person with me and I can take him without dying, which is much easier to get than getting 3-4 people willing to help. This earring, btw, will add approximately 20 (or more) damage on spells outside of burst, and 30 (or more) on damage from bursts.

As to Eremite's and Electrum's, well, I'm torn. I really don't see a difference in getting much more int - each point tends to yield 1-2 damage. Zircon's are 80-90k on midgardsormr, and I can't rationalize spending 160-180k on 4 damage. I'd rather save my money for better food and trying to get an Ice Staff. So, I'm torn between my eremite's and my electrum's. I can't decide. Currently, I have 2 of each in my inventory, and I swap them in and out, seeing what kind of difference +4 int makes. It doesn't make much, but I'll continue to wear my electrums off the bat, and switch for +4 when I've used that MP. As for not using Astrals...again, I'm a taru. Do I really need to spend 250k for an additional 10 mp? Seriously, I've only had less mp than someone in my party once, and that was the aforementioned blackmage/summoner with all elemental staves, vermillion staff, etc. I'm sorry if that angers you, but until I see every melee with 2 snipers, every white mage with erase, etc., I'm not spending absurd amounts of gil for small results when others aren't spending the same gil for ENOURMOUS results.

How about you don't judge people so quickly? You already know I spend much more money than your average blackmage while leveling, how about you think about the fact I've probably debated buying all those other gears, and just decided they weren't worth it. I mean seriously, looking at my gear and saying that I'm cheap is just asinine, especially now that I have AF. You don't know what I wore before AF, so how could you tell if I was truly cheap? Jewlery is known to be almost useless in all aspects, aside from the ridiculous Serket ring / Assault Earring / etc., so the only way to judge how dedicated someone is by their gear is by the main parts. To date, I've never had less total int than any black mage I've partied with, not even the absurdly rich one (yes, he has serket ring. He's probably the richest person in Midgardsormr, so if you say that if he has it, so should I, you're an idiot.), so I'd say I'm pretty well off. Yes, that's right, even with my shoddy Eremite's rings, I still outdamage every blackmage I've ever partied with (there are so many on midgardsormr that I frequently have double-BLM parties).

Also, doing avatars means I get to party with a lot of blackmages as well. I do on average 15-50 more damage per spell than other black mages, even the ones that are a few levels above me.

If you want, next time I go, I'll take screencaps of the entire log of every avatar fight, just to prove that I am in fact doing more damage than the other blackmages. I'm not shitting you.




Ignorant people piss me off.

[shwiggy]

That's a pretty defensive post =p I'd buy sleepga2 before any single piece of gear though.