An Elvaan Beast Tamer?

[Beastlord]

GMAN!

[Tomatoes]

Originally posted by Gman
Yes, with equipment mods, Elvaan is statistically better for HP/MP numbers. Their HP pool is large enough that they can convert HP to MP and still come out ahead of the Taru, but it ~is~ expensive up until electrums at 40 are available. I had a Pigeon earring. It cost me 120k and I sold it for 200k since price went up. Not sure where you get the 1 mil pricetag. (maybe for pigeon +1 or the bloodbead?)

Yes, I meant pigeon+1, since we were talking about the most expensive MP item as well (Astrals). I believe bloodbead is also quite pricy on my server.

HP and MP are both important for a /whm bst. Why bother subbing whm if you dont have enough MP to make it effective? Galka may have 300-400 more MP than me, but I have 80 more MP. Blink is 20 mp. I can cast 4 blinks extra then the galka. Each blink absorbs 2 hits. 8 hits from a tough-VT mob at level 61 = 560 dmg (assuming 70 dmg per hit). There goes the Galkas HP advantage.

But this is not quite accurate, since we are talking per battle. I don't know any BST that casts Blink more than twice in 1 battle. Blink is not even 100% guarantee like Utsusemi. I believe that the MP gap is diminished by gear compensation, Dark Staff recharge rate, and typical BST style play, which is to time your resting conveniently. And I don't know any BST that worries about Barwatera against Crab Bubble Shower, Pugil maybe.

I fully realize that the Galka can make up some MP through gear and still come out ahead with HP. Difference is that I'm using those gear slots for other things to make me even better. They cant, since they are stuck with MP gear there.

But then my point is that there is no gear in existence that will give us the meat buffer advantage of Elvaan or Galka. Even with both Pigeon+1 and Bloodbead, the overall benefit is not even 10%. And the combat equipment we must swap in does not make us superior fighters, since the other races already have a jump on us as far as melee suitability. Also, the cost of spells does not increase as you level. Blink will always cost you 20mp, whether you are level 40 or level 75.

This is how I summarize it:

CHR/Charm Success - Virtually equal in the long run for all races, especially considering equipment enhancement.

MP - Large natural differences, which are flattened out by gear, and further equalized standard BST resting practices.

Combat (ACC/STR/ATK/etc) - Certain differences exist, which are more or less erased by gear swapping.

HP - Large natural differences, which can not be feasibly made up through any means. I suppose onceyou hit 75 you could spend merit points, but I'm not sure I want to spend them in this area to be honest, because as you've already stated, most of us Taru BST have already adjusted to lower HP play.

Have I missed any major factors? I suppose the difficulty of levelling /whm sub for Elv/Gal is a bit of a factor, but not directly related to actual BST play.

Basically, you touched on the overriding factor.

Player knowledge > Gear > Racial Difference. But since race is the topic of discussion, that is the direction in which I am gearing my points.

Personally, I couldn't care less that Taru is (imo) worst-suited for BST job. I love Tarutarus. If I knew I would feel this way before I started the BST job, I would have picked Taru anyway, just for style points. This is despite the fact that I already have an Elvaan character (although WHM only levelled to 19 on that one).

And any race is good enough to play BST regardless. So, to get back to the OP, not only is Elvaan "good enough" for BST, it is (imo) one of the best races for it.

[Gman]

But this is not quite accurate, since we are talking per battle. I don't know any BST that casts Blink more than twice in 1 battle. Blink is not even 100% guarantee like Utsusemi. I believe that the MP gap is diminished by gear compensation, Dark Staff recharge rate, and typical BST style play, which is to time your resting conveniently

I'm referring to DURING battle, as in youre already engaged with the enemy, trying to build TP to finish it. You cast blink more than once if you get hate, or have to do a pet swap and your shadows get eaten. I fail to see how switching to dark staff, and sitting to rest MP accomplishes anything. Obviously if you are gonna die, you back off and let your pet do the work while you rest, but the large MP pool of a Taru allows you to constantly reapply buffs to stay alive long enough to release your pet and finish the mob. Also, Blink is not 100% guarantee, but it is eventually guaranteed to absorb 2 hits.

And I don't know any BST that worries about Barwatera against Crab Bubble Shower, Pugil maybe.

While I respect your opinions, this statement makes me think you need to consider possibilities outside your own experiences. Level on Robber crabs in Kuftal (or in my case) Boyhada tree and you'll see what I mean. Bubble shower can do over 150 dmg. Barwatera reduces it significantly. I'm talking that when I see the crab start to use it, and I know i forgot to cast the spell, I kick myself for forgetting. It's THAT effective. Most dmg I've taken with barwater was about 50.

CHR/Charm Success - Virtually equal in the long run for all races, especially considering equipment enhancement.

You cant leave out base CHR when comparing races in a job where CHR is one of the most important factors. I'm sorry, but I just cant agree with you here. Less failures = less downtime, less deaths, and overall better playing experience. Elvaan have highest CHR, followed closely by Taru and Hume.

MP - Large natural differences, which are flattened out by gear, and further equalized standard BST resting practices.

Why are all the non-taru bsts in my ls (and we have at least 10+ bsts in my ls level 55+) always envious of taru mp? I constantly hear comments like "damn you tarus and your infinite mp pool". MP is important to a bst/whm. If it was that easy to negate it, no one would be complaining. Obviously its not all black and white. Perhaps i will ask one of them tonight what they think of Elvaan vs Taru in terms of overall performance.

I'll say again. I have more than enough HP to get the job done. Perhaps other races feel they have enough MP to get the job done. Fine for them, but I like being able to raise my comrades without swapping mp gear to do it. No other race can do that until well into their 70's. Who cares if they have 300 more HP if they never need it? And if it does become a factor, then they are playing the job very dangerously and they will die much more than me anyway.

GMAN!

'Sup buddy? You coming back to FFXI now, or just kinda visiting your old stomping grounds?

[Tomatoes]

Originally posted by Gman
I fail to see how switching to dark staff, and sitting to rest MP accomplishes anything.

It allows non-Taru races to med a large enough MP pool to "constantly reapply buffs" as you put it, in such a manner that racial MP difference is negated. As large as a Taru MP pool is, I think all races have a large enough MP pool to be able to constantly reapply buffs on a per-battle basis. Also, if you are having to re-cast Blink mid-battle, doesn't that imply that your Pet does not have enough hate yet, since the mob is turning back on you and eliminating your buff?

While I respect your opinions, this statement makes me think you need to consider possibilities outside your own experiences. Level on Robber crabs in Kuftal (or in my case) Boyhada tree and you'll see what I mean. Bubble shower can do over 150 dmg. Barwatera reduces it significantly. I'm talking that when I see the crab start to use it, and I know i forgot to cast the spell, I kick myself for forgetting. It's THAT effective. Most dmg I've taken with barwater was about 50.

You're right, I don't have that experience with Bubble Shower. But then, are you implying that Barwatera is inherently more accessible to Tarus? If so, then I still disagree. By the time any BST is high enough to level on Robber Crabs, most players already have an MP base of 100-120mp at least. Certainly enough to afford a 12mp spell at intervals.

You cant leave out base CHR when comparing races in a job where CHR is one of the most important factors. I'm sorry, but I just cant agree with you here. Less failures = less downtime, less deaths, and overall better playing experience. Elvaan have highest CHR, followed closely by Taru and Hume.

Did I really leave it out? If so, then I'm mistaken. But I'm pretty sure I meant that Charming ability of all races is virtually equal when gear considerations are also applied. I believe the ranking you have just provided, based solely on base CHR, is wrong. Consider also that Galka and Mithra can swap in CHR+MP boosting RSE. Taru RSE does not have such bonuses. Let's take the LVL 40 example again. I can't seem to locate a definitive chart, so this is again a rough estimate. Please bear with me:

Base CHR @ ~LV40

Taru: 45
Mithra: 40

Okay, a 5 CHR difference. 10-15% is a pretty significant number, I'll agree. But now look at other factors:

Potential Gear Bonuses @ ~LV40 for Taru

Tuna Sushi: +5
Signa: +8
Loyalty Ring x2: +6
Corsette +1: +6
Noble's Ribbon: +3
Bird Whistle: +3
Total: +31

Potential Gear Bonuses @ ~LV40 for Mithra

Same as above: +31
Gaiters: +2
Seperates: +1
Total: +34

That makes it out as:

Taru: 76 CHR
Mithra: 74 CHR

That difference is not even 3%. Also, the gear and food bonuses account for an increase of well over 50% to base CHR. Once again, a crucial BST element that is trumped by gear, not racial differences.

Consider also that CHR is notoriously fickle as far as success. I'm sure you've heard as many horror stories as I have a duos where the max CHR partner was mischarming horribly, while the moderately CHR geared partner was performing smoothly.

Why are all the non-taru bsts in my ls (and we have at least 10+ bsts in my ls level 55+) always envious of taru mp? I constantly hear comments like "damn you tarus and your infinite mp pool". MP is important to a bst/whm. If it was that easy to negate it, no one would be complaining. Obviously its not all black and white. Perhaps i will ask one of them tonight what they think of Elvaan vs Taru in terms of overall performance.

Well, I dont' really have any reply for this, since the comments made by your LS are more subjective than analytical. But I will say that I have never implied that MP was not important, even once in all my posts.

I'll say again. I have more than enough HP to get the job done. Perhaps other races feel they have enough MP to get the job done. Fine for them, but I like being able to raise my comrades without swapping mp gear to do it. No other race can do that until well into their 70's. Who cares if they have 300 more HP if they never need it? And if it does become a factor, then they are playing the job very dangerously and they will die much more than me anyway.

Well, congrats on your efficiency and effectiveness, but in discussing this issue with a whole community of BST, we can't rightly use a single person's case as the standard. I also feel I have more than enough HP to get the job done, just as many Taru PLD believe they have the HP to get the job done, just as many Galka WHM believe they have the MP to get the job done. That however, is not the issue. We are not talking about viability in terms of factors such as playing style, which vary from player to player. We are talking about set factors that are universal to all BST, which do not vary from player to player, or even server to server.

My point remains that HP is the sole attribute in this job that can't be equalized by gear, unlike MP, CHR, ACC, ATK, STR. Even as Taru, the ratio of HP to MP is noticeably skewed. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Everything matters, but out of all the things that matter, HP is the only factor that can't be more or less equalized. And that is why it is relevant in a discussion of race suitability for the Beastmaster job.

I don't know, but to me, it seems like you are taking my comments too personally, which is not my intent. Relax, I'm not trying to offend here. :sweat:

[Gman]

I'm not going to go point by point and argue with you anymore. I'm gonna leave it as we will agree to disagree on the importance of HP.

I never said that Elvaans/Galka dont have a better HP/MP ratio with gear that Taru cant make up (in fact I admitted it in one of my earlier posts). All I'm saying is that the extra HP is not as important as you think. I KNOW this, its not opinion. I suppose if you suck, and constantly get pounded to the point where you have only 200-300 HP left, then sure, you will notice the higher HP non-tarus have. If you play the job smart (this isnt isolated to me or the BST's I know, this goes for the WHOLE BST community) you shouldnt need the extra HP.

I do have to correct one thing.

I fail to see how switching to dark staff, and sitting to rest MP accomplishes anything.

Where I was going with this was that if you were to run out of MP mid battle and had to switch to dark staff to med, you lose your TP. Having the higher MP in the first place avoids this situation.

I imagine everyone has their own personal style of playing the BST job. This in itself is the biggest factor in deciding which race is best for that person. My style fits Taru. I do enough damage to get TP and finish mobs, and I can kill 2-3 in a row without needing to rest for mp. This is how I like to play the job.

One more note on HP. I thought of many more items to boost HP. I'm not saying there are not counterparts available for other races to boost MP, or even get additional HP, but the fact is, if I want as much HP as an Elvaan I think I can do it. Check the AH... the gear is there.

[Tomatoes]

So that's the way it is then? I explained my position. You misconstrued my points. That I don't mind, since we can just clear that up with further discussion. What I don't appreciate is egotism and condescension:

Originally posted by Gman
I suppose if you suck, and constantly get pounded to the point where you have only 200-300 HP left, then sure, you will notice the higher HP non-tarus have. If you play the job smart (this isnt isolated to me or the BST's I know, this goes for the WHOLE BST community) you shouldnt need the extra HP.

:shrug:

Did I say anywhere that more HP needed? No. I believe my point was more=better, not more=necessity. And more=helpful in those not-so-ideal situations that can and do happen, especially for beginner Beastmasters like the OP. For the record, I typically take 0-1 hits these days before killing off my mob with Rampage. So no, I do not "constantly get pounded to the point where I have only 200-300 HP left." However, we're discussing the entire range of BST experiences, no?

I never said that Elvaans/Galka dont have a better HP/MP ratio with gear that Taru cant make up (in fact I admitted it in one of my earlier posts).

I didn't claim you did.

All I'm saying is that the extra HP is not as important as you think.

How do you know how important I think HP is when you continually misconstrue or ignore my main point? Did I say HP pool is the be all and end all of this job? No. What I said was that all of the useful and necessary attributes of BST are more or less equal for all races, except HP. Does that mean only 2 or 3 races are good enough to play this job? Of course not. Does this mean that certain races may have an edge that others do not? I believe so. (Note that I said edge, not prerequisite.)

From previous post:

...HP is the sole attribute in this job that can't be equalized by gear, unlike MP, CHR, ACC, ATK, STR. Everything matters, but out of all the things that matter, HP is the only factor that can't be more or less equalized. And that is why it is relevant in a discussion of race suitability for the Beastmaster job.

As you have already said, HP is meaningful, though you don't think it counts for that much. Am I interpreting you correctly? If so, then even if it is only a little bit meaningful, doesn't that still count for something? And if all the other attributes are virtually equal as I have suggested, then doesn't that bit of HP significance stand as a basis from which to differentiate BST races?

How about an auto analogy. Car A has enough gas to travel 200 miles. Car B has enough gas to travel 250 miles. You need to travel to Townville, which is 180miles away. Which car is better suited? Either one, of course! Thing is, what if something unexpected occurs and you need to take a detour to say, NMville or somewhere? Everything about the two cars is practically identical, except mileage (well also, Car A is far more stylish looking imo ) . Get my meaning?

I imagine everyone has their own personal style of playing the BST job. This in itself is the biggest factor in deciding which race is best for that person. My style fits Taru. I do enough damage to get TP and finish mobs, and I can kill 2-3 in a row without needing to rest for mp. This is how I like to play the job.

Actually what you described is pretty standard imo. Most of the BSTs I've encountered or grouped with tend to play the same way with slight variation, one way or the other. The main differences I can think of are some BSTs like to release earlier and some like to wait till the very last sliver. And some BSTs like to engage earlier, while some wait a longer. Playing styles appear to be more variants than polar opposites.

One more note on HP. I thought of many more items to boost HP. I'm not saying there are not counterparts available for other races to boost MP, or even get additional HP, but the fact is, if I want as much HP as an Elvaan I think I can do it. Check the AH... the gear is there.

Prove it then. Why reject/ignore my points and then expect me to research your counterargument for you? Since you are level 61, prove you can make up 200HP w/o severely compromising your effectiveness in other areas of the job and I take back my words. Even more impressive, try making up the HP gap between Taru > Galka (almost 300HP I believe).

[Gman]

What I don't appreciate is egotism and condescension:

I dont appreciate being taken out of context. I didnt mean "you" suck, and if you thought thats what I meant, you are incorrect. "you" as in the person who is getting down to 200-300HP after a fight. Read that quote again and you'll see what I mean.

Did I say anywhere that more HP needed? No.

Didnt say you did. (I can play that way too) However you did say that you felt Taru was the worst race only because of HP. Sounds to me that you think its pretty damn important if you ignore everything else they have going for them. I have pretty close to 1000 HP at level 61. While not as much as my Elvaan counterpart, sporting about 1150, I still think I'm doing pretty good. BST has inheritently high HP, and the AF gives even more. My level 67 NIN friend that I partied with the other night had just less than 900 HP at level 67 with WAR sub. And hes a tank. HP isnt the be all and end all. (nevermind... I already know your response... "I didnt say it was")

Anyway, ugh... here we go again... (Damn you for getting me back into this debate. )

Let me put aside everything you said for a minute and throw something out there.

What does Taru have going for it that I feel makes it a good bst, as compared to Elvaan? Fuck gear, because essentially, all bsts can wear the same gear (RSE type not included of course) so any advantages one race has over the other will remain constant assuming the same gear is being worn.

Taru:

High natural MP. This is needed for bst/whm, which we've already established.

High Agility. Maybe the highest in the game, but Mithra might be higher. Does this do anything for bst? Not too sure, I guess if it affects evasion or decreases critical hits, then yes, if not, then its pretty much a useless stat.

Average-above average DEX. I believe DEX is proportionate to accuracy in some way. Probably not enough to make a huge impact, but we'll assume DEX is useful rather than not useful.

High INT. Useless

One of the highest CHR. Again, take away gear, and Taru is bang on to land more charms over time than any other race, except Elvaan.

Adorable in BST AF. Cant argue with this. Dont even bother trying. Yes, a Taru in DRG or DRK AF beats us, but not by much.

Elvaan:

High HP: Of course this is their bread and butter over the Taru. If it comes down to having to tank for an extended period, or having to deal with a link, or run to zone, they have an edge here.

VIT: Elvaan has better Vitality than a Taru. See HP for benefits. They basically go hand in hand to provide more survivability assuming the mob is attacking the BST not the pet.

STR: When an elvaan hits the target, it hits for a bit more damage. Personally, I havent noticed a huge difference when partying with Elvaan BST when it comes to any of the melee factors, but that could be due to gear, which I am trying to avoid.

MND: This is a stat that they blow Tarus away at. My pesonal feeling is that this is more useful at lower levels than higher ones. At higher levels, the low enfeebling skill makes it very hard to land any kind of debuffs, and healing caps out quite early on, so MND doesnt play a factor in healing much past level 20-25. Only thing I can think of that may play a role is resistance to paralyze/slow??

CHR: Probably the best of the races. It's been a while since I checked it out, but I remember it being good. Again, no gear, Elvaan will succeed the charm with the highest percentage.

What it all means: As far as survivability goes, both races have been given the tools to ensure they can handle themselves. Taru will probably hit a bit more and dodge a bit more, as well as having a larger MP pool to heal themselves. Elvaan will miss slightly more, get hit slightly more (this is all over time, not in 1 particular battle) and has more HP and VIT to stay alive.

This thread (because of us) has gotten extremely off topic to what the OP was asking.

He simply wanted to know whether Elvaan makes a good BST. Pretty much everyone (myself included) agreed that they do.

The only reason we are even in this pissing match is because of this comment.

Elvaan BST is great. Taru BST is the worst imo, simply because of HP. Also, I believe it is easier/cheaper to boost MP than HP.

You opened the can of worms, not me.

[Tomatoes]

Yes, I opened it. And I backed it up. Also, worst does not equal bad! It is a relative denomination only. Call it a pissing contest if you want (a little odd, since I'm Taru myself), but I'm interested in this discussion, if for nothing else, then at least generation of BST info. Hopefully that info is accurate as well. The worst thing veteran BST can do is spread misinformation to future BSTs. And nothing against you personally, but I think you are spreading misinformation about the job in some aspects. Therefore, it's worth "pissing" over.

For example, the comparison you posted above is not all that useful, because no BST play naked. If you want to make a useful comparison, you must consider all factors and all situations. And what you said about CHR could be misleading as it gives the impression that base CHR has a large impact on the job. In the long run, I think base CHR is a virtual non-factor. The gear factor simply dwarfs the racial gap. There's also that whole Staff vs. Signa thing that further diminishes the CHR line.

Fuck gear, because essentially, all bsts can wear the same gear (RSE type not included of course) so any advantages one race has over the other will remain constant assuming the same gear is being worn.

That's just it. You can't make that assumption because the same gear is _not_ being worn across the board. Different races are adjusting in different ways. And you can't exclude RSE armor from consideration and then make a broad statement like that. Well you can, but it just undermines your own argument. It's the difference between practical application and lab application.

I suppose if you suck, and constantly get pounded to the point where you have only 200-300 HP left, then sure, you will notice the higher HP non-tarus have. If you play the job smart (this isnt isolated to me or the BST's I know, this goes for the WHOLE BST community) you shouldnt need the extra HP.

I dont appreciate being taken out of context. I didnt mean "you" suck, and if you thought thats what I meant, you are incorrect. "you" as in the person who is getting down to 200-300HP after a fight. Read that quote again and you'll see what I mean.

In what context should I take it then when I am one of the ones "noticing the higher HP of non-tarus?" If you want to be responsible for your statements, then you can't disown their implications and just expect them to be taken only literally. And if you don't mean to imply me, then are you are implying the suckiness of other BST? Is there room here for players that don't get constantly pounded, but still notice the HP difference and find it to be valuable?

Did I say anywhere that more HP needed? No.

Didnt say you did. (I can play that way too) However you did say that you felt Taru was the worst race only because of HP. Sounds to me that you think its pretty damn important if you ignore everything else they have going for them.

Then why did you say, "you shouldnt need the extra HP?"

I still feel they are the worst race only because of HP. And I do think it's pretty damn important. But I did not "ignore everything else they have going for them." In fact, I spent pages addressing those other things. But, I claimed that everything else Tarus have going for them, all the other races have going for them also! And I stressed that as important as HP is, it is not the only important aspect of BST. But in comparison to the other factors, it is the only one that that retains a pronounced racial difference even after all adjustments are made. Thus it is a valid barometer for comparison.

There is nothing that a Taru BST can feasibly do to boost HP as high as Elvaan or Galka, no matter how much gil you farm, no matter what gear you manipulate. There are however, ways for Elvaan and Galka to generate MP pools that are equally as viable as the Taru MP pool. That's the only significant difference in the races as far as Beastmaster job is concerned, imo.

[Tomatoes]

You know what? Forget it. You're right, this discussion is devolving, or at least not progressing. And I really ought to be typing my term papers instead of reading forums. To summarize:

I say BST MP has differences that can be accounted for, but BST HP has differences that can't be accounted for.

You say that both BST MP and HP have differences that can be accounted for.

And that's that. Everybody else can reach their own conclusions.

Edit: Actually, I'm starting to feel that I've done a disservice to the OP and forum, so returning more to the original topic:

1) Install the game.

2) Have fun waiting through the update/download. -_- Go watch a movie or something. Maybe 2.

3) While I wouldn't recommend deciding on a job right off the bat, if that is truly what you want, then note that you can't become a BST right away. You must achieve level 30 in one of the non-advanced classes first. So, XP-wise, level BLM to 18.

4) Then WHM to 30. Since you are Elvaan, you may get passed up on invites occasionally, but the bottom line is that you are still WHM, and PTs love WHM at those levels.

5) Now you can unlock the BST job. Hopefully by this time, you've accumulated some Beastmen Seals, explored, quested, and learned a way to make gil. There's a lot of options here and the more you learn, the better off you'll be, and the more rewarding your experience will turn out (not just money-wise).

6) Check out the all-purpose BST guide on allakhazam for further info. And if you happen to get frustrated on your way to 35, remember you still have the option of going to the popular PT grounds and putting your seek flag up.

Good luck!

[Mikeb]

I'd rank races for BST as Elvaan #1, Hume #2, Galka #3, Taru and Mithra at the end...

Elvaan has best VIT and HP (for survival), STR (to kill quicker), and is tied (with Taru and Hume) for highest CHR.

Hume is well rounded, and for a solo character this is very good. I shouldn't need to explain stats.

Galka has the best melee abilities, but is slightly lacking in CHR and MP. MP can be fixed with astrals (a Galka in my LS has more HP AND MP than a same level Taru...), slightly lower CHR won't hurt you too much, most BST have enough +CHR they rarely fail charms anyway...

Taru - they do make 'bad' BSTs... They hit weak (low STR), and are lacking in HP, VIT. That said, they are still very playable and can make great BSTs. Depends who's behind the keyboard. Going by stats though, they are weak BSTs... (but at the same time the best because of the AF-cuteness factor...) BTW, despite the Taru 'bashing' I made my second character a Taru (and it will be a BST) - seems like a fun challenge...

MP does play a bit of a factor, but an astral or two fixes it very quickly. When I played BST I only ever needed MP to heal after AoEs.

Anyhow, thats my 2 cents... Stop flaming and remember, skill > equips > race.... BST is probably the best example of this. Some players have pimped out characters but can't make it past chain 2 solo, others have ghetto equips and make chain 4 and 5 (even in non-prime EXP spots)...

[Gman]

I dont back down from a debate, even if its one I'm not winning. :p By the way, not once did I say that Taru can make up for the HP of Galka or Elvaan. In your summary you said thats what I think.

You say that both BST MP and HP have differences that can be accounted for.

I was trying to argue that HP wasnt all that important. (And I still feel its not) Although, I will agree that having more HP is definately a good thing, not a bad thing. My personal playing style fits Taru better. I dont carry any MP equips on me. This saves space in my gobbiebag for all the spider webs I get... (oh wait, correction, spider webs I ~would~ get if boyhada wasnt being farmed 24/7 ) Plus if you do any equipment swapping like I do, it takes away the MP as soon as you equip attack gears (example: swapping the astrals out for snipers or sun rings) Although, by swapping in sun rings, all I'm doing is bringing my STR up to match an Elvaan anyway, so they could get away with keeping Astrals on permanently.

BTW Tomato, although I didnt find items that would match the HP of Elvaan, I found some dandies at the AH this weekend. The Taru RSE2 Feet at level 62 give +65 HP with no hit to your MP. Amazing. Add in a level 40 waist equip (+40HP) and maybe a pigeon, and thats 125 HP. Not too bad, but not cheap either. There ya go, 3 pieces of equips that will make up a good chunk of HP without ~severely~ handicaping you. I wont buy them, but any Tarus that want a HP boost would find them useful.

I'm NOT misinforming any future beasts, and that was the one thing you said that actually offended me. I was giving my personal opinion on why I dont think Elvaan/Galka HP is necessary, and what Taru has that makes them good BST's.

Honestly, I think at higher levels, the chance of dying just decreases alot, and maybe thats why I think HP doesnt matter so much. Thinking back to lower levels, I died a hell of a lot, and in 50% of those deaths, an extra 75-100 HP would have been very handy. I guess the formula would be something like (I dont like the word "skill", I'd rather use "knowledge" or "experience"), so Experience > Gear > Race

Taru - they do make 'bad' BSTs... They hit weak (low STR), and are lacking in HP, VIT

My problem with this statement is that for the most part, the beastmaster himself/herself does very little fighting. The pet does 90% of the damage, and, if the fight goes well, takes 100% of the damage. What you said would be true for normal melee jobs like PLD (HP, VIT) and DRK, MNK, SAM, etc for STR/ATT. But for bst's, really the only thing we have to worry about is making sure we can finish the mob off. This holds true for all races, not just taru/elvaan. That's basically a beastmasters strategy. If the final WS doesnt do the job, and you end up tanking the mob for a bit (which does happen from time to time) then the extra VIT and HP of an Elvaan would be extremely useful.

Overall, this has been a great topic to liven up the slumbering BST forums. Hope to get more like it. Take care gentlemen.

[Mikeb]

My problem with this statement is that for the most part, the beastmaster himself/herself does very little fighting. The pet does 90% of the damage, and, if the fight goes well, takes 100% of the damage. What you said would be true for normal melee jobs like PLD (HP, VIT) and DRK, MNK, SAM, etc for STR/ATT. But for bst's, really the only thing we have to worry about is making sure we can finish the mob off. This holds true for all races, not just taru/elvaan. That's basically a beastmasters strategy. If the final WS doesnt do the job, and you end up tanking the mob for a bit (which does happen from time to time) then the extra VIT and HP of an Elvaan would be extremely useful.

When I was playing BST I would melee 95% of the time, and use meat mithkabobs while exping. Made the fights go alot quicker, and I'd hit chain 4 and 5 on a regular basis (even in non-prime exp spots). It is a little riskier (AoE damage, gotta watch your hate), but worth it.

[Gman]

Originally posted by Mikeb
When I was playing BST I would melee 95% of the time, and use meat mithkabobs while exping. Made the fights go alot quicker, and I'd hit chain 4 and 5 on a regular basis (even in non-prime exp spots). It is a little riskier (AoE damage, gotta watch your hate), but worth it.

Ya, when I'm with my duo partner, we know one pet each will finish off the mob, so we both melee 100% of the time (unless resting MP).

It's a bit different when I solo though, because if I have an Even Match (I'll use my current situation as the example) Death Cap (level 62) and go up against a Tough+ Robber Crab (level 64-66), its quite hard to defeat it before your pet dies. You have to rely more on luck to get by with just 1 pet. Ususally what I do is throw a pet at it first to get it down to about 60-70% life, then release, and grab a new pet, then I fight with the new pet to get TP to finish it.

This is a strategy I've become used to, since against some mobs your pet simply gets hit too hard. If you fight with your pet from the start, when you go to do the swap, you will have too much hate, and it will be hard to get the mob off you and on to your new pet.

That being said, I wanted to skill up Scythe last night a bit before I left the tree, so I grabbed an EM Bunny and sent it on a tough Robber crab. My plan was to use my warp scroll just before my pet was gonna die, but we ended up putting such a beating on the crab (got lucky with pet weaponskills) that I was able to defeat it after releasing my pet with 6% life left. 200 xp /cheer (no skillups though )

[Tomatoes]

Oh, those Creek boots indeed look promising. The belt I dunno though. Would probably lose out on the HP swapping Corsette/Life Belt. MP on the other hand, you can med, then cast buffs, then switch to combat gear, so you don't really waste MP there.

Which spots did you XP at Mikeb?

[Mikeb]

Originally posted by Tomatoes
Which spots did you XP at Mikeb?

Spent most of 30-48 in the Altepa deserts and Gustav tunnel, as well as Yhoator jungle... Fighting spiders, goblin pets (in both places), goblins, anticans, worms and undead at night. For pets I'd use spiders, dhalmels, bats, lizards, sabotenders and scorpions...

It was a long time ago though, before the expansion and stuff...