Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

[Zoltar]

Maiden's Virelai - Charms an enemy, but does not give the same amount of control over the mob as a Beastmaster

What do Bards use this for? I can only think of a couple things, so correct me if I'm wrong:

1.) Bard = lot of CHR = good charm rate = Charm mob and pull another mob, it'll be 2 on 1, or a 7th member to a party

2.) Party is going to wipe, charm mob so everyone can recover HP/MP

Either? None? thx...

[Armando]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

Virelai duration is extremely short, I think 30 secs.

#2 seems practical. Also, I've read that charming the mob wipes its hate list (makes sense).

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

So far as I know, they don't.

[Sabaron]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

I use the sheet music as toilet paper when I have to be in the field for a long time.

As for seriousness, the duration is 30 seconds, the same as Lullaby, but the recast time is 60 seconds, so it makes for a poor substitute for Lullaby. The mob will attack you when it uncharms because the spell generates enmity. Also, in order for the mob to actually attack, the intended target must first take an aggressive action against the Bard and since we almost never take hate except during a pull, it is hard to set up.

If it wipes hate, that's kind of cool (I don't know if it does or not, but it sounds plausible), but if you're fighting a mob for long enough to need a hate reset then the mob is probably not charmable, and if it is you should probably re-evaluate why you were fighting it in the first place.

I can see it as a useful distraction if you catch aggro and need to run away though in some place like Cape Terrigan--accidentally agg a raptor, charm his nearest neighbor and run away. However, now, instead of one sleeping raptor which you would have had if you had used Lullaby, you'll have two angry raptors in 30 seconds when the spell wears off.

I think I prefer Lullaby/Horde Lullaby in most cases unless you're trying to save a WHM who used Benediction or something like that.

[Zoltar]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

Sab, now that you mention it, it seems like a good 'getaway' from aggro. If it resets hate thats cool too, but I wonder if let's say I pull an Imp and link, I charm the second one, it attacks the first and the party kills both eventually. Will we get experience points for BOTH kills? I can't remember if BST gets xp for kills against uncharmed pets...

[Armando]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

Using an imp against another imp will kill your EXP because the pet is much higher level than the party. You'd be getting EXP for killing an EM mob.

[Zoltar]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

i think i'll use this when running to the gate from Caedarva Mire back to Azoulph Isle Staging Point. I always aggro and don't always make it back alive.... Mazurka + Virelai should work nicely...thx all, appreciate the help

[Sabaron]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

Sab, now that you mention it, it seems like a good 'getaway' from aggro. If it resets hate thats cool too, but I wonder if let's say I pull an Imp and link, I charm the second one, it attacks the first and the party kills both eventually. Will we get experience points for BOTH kills? I can't remember if BST gets xp for kills against uncharmed pets...

I'm pretty sure that Virelai is limited to the same kind of monsters that a BST can charm, but I haven't tested that. Charming an Imp is probably impossible, but as I said, I haven't tested it. Even if you could do it....

Your imp scenario won't work because the charm only lasts 30 seconds which will not be long enough for the imp you charm to kill the first one. Once the charm wears off BOTH imps will come to attack you and you'll have 3 Imps on your party instead of two and your Virelai will be down for 30 seconds in the interim (again 30 seconds duration, 60 seconds recast). Since Imps don't link, the better option would be for you to use Lullaby on the second aggro and just resleep it when it wakes up.


WRT to your Virelai + Mazurka:

Virelai causes the mob to FOLLOW YOU AROUND LIKE A PET. This is bad because when the charm wears off, it's still right next to you unless it aggroed something.

In all cases, when running away, Virelai will be secondary to Lullaby since lullaby will fix the mobs position allowing you to make your escape.

Also, I recommend rather then spend your time on casting Mazurka, use a couple seconds to throw up a Sneak/Invis instead because you don't want to aggro anything else while you're running away. The imp will stay far behind you, and when it gets in casting range, it will try to cast something immediately which gives you time to get out of range. Mazurka also wears as soon as you take damage, so if you're being followed, it won't help.



My suggestion regarding Virelai: Forget the spell exists.

[Balfree]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

It must be useful for something.

Pulling for one. In today's merit parties its a constant spree of mobs and fighting, just pull one, sing a song then charm the second mob, it'l be ready to fight once it uncharms, you take a couple hits before the tank vokes it though, probably.

Maybe meh...

[Sabaron]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

It must be useful for something.

Pulling for one. In today's merit parties its a constant spree of mobs and fighting, just pull one, sing a song then charm the second mob, it'l be ready to fight once it uncharms, you take a couple hits before the tank vokes it though, probably.

Maybe meh...

Ok, I'll grant that if you pulled in this manner:

1. Sing Elegy on Mob #1,
2. Immediately (before anyone Provokes or steals hate), sing Virelai on Mob #2.
3. Since Mob #1 will obviously attack you, Mob #2 will now be aggressive toward it increasing overall damage.
4. When Virelai wears off, drop a Lullaby on Mob #2 and go pull Mob #3.
5. Now start order over again at #1.

The problem?

The Virelai trick will add something on the order of 6 seconds to your cycle which should already be very tight without it depending on your setup. If you have Minstrel's Ring setup with a Yigit/Sha'ir body, then you're cool though, it should be a minimal impact.

Now integrating the Virelai into something like the dance you do at Jade Sepulcher camp would be interesting...provided the Virelai works on the target mob. Of course, if all you're doing is G. Coli, then who cares?

Another potential problem could occur with mob positioning as a result of the Virelai--if your charmed mob attacks the pulled mob with sufficient force to switch the pulled mob's hate to itself, then the pulled mob will not follow you as intended.

[Sabaron]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

Just tested... Virelai does not work on Beastmen as expected. I will guarantee with 99% certainty that Virelai only works on the same set of mobs that a Beastmaster's Charm works on.

[Callisto]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

I haven't toyed with BST enough to know exactly what the rules are, but I do know that mobs that I used as pets weren't giving me any XP even if I let them regen back to full health, pulling with Virelai may do the same and make the mob give 0 XP to the party.

As for actual practical uses of Virelai, the only one I've seen was when it was used in combination with Colibri to test the formulas for dMND on RDM debuffs, where you have someone voke the bird, Virelai it, the bird recasts it on the person with hate, then you proceed to debuff them.

[Sabaron]

Re: Maiden's Virelai, what do Bards use this for?

I haven't toyed with BST enough to know exactly what the rules are, but I do know that mobs that I used as pets weren't giving me any XP even if I let them regen back to full health, pulling with Virelai may do the same and make the mob give 0 XP to the party.

As for actual practical uses of Virelai, the only one I've seen was when it was used in combination with Colibri to test the formulas for dMND on RDM debuffs, where you have someone voke the bird, Virelai it, the bird recasts it on the person with hate, then you proceed to debuff them.

That's an extremely clever, if a bit eclectic, use of an otherwise lackluster spell.