How do u communicate with JP about positioning?

[cloudedge]

I have been inviting a few JP to my PT and it's been great. But just like NA sometimes they don't know where to stand to help you land the song correctly.

I was wondering if anyone has a good translation phrase of a Japanese phrase that I could use to help get the idea across. Usually I just ask the melee to stand oposite of the pld, and mages behind pld.

The way I tell my JP member in /tell is:
"asoko iie" (I know it probably sound rude by my japanese is so bad ;
"{please} {gather together} <insert NA melee name> {song}"

is there better way to communicate ; ; I really don't want to sound rude to them.

[Rilu]

In my opinion, it isn't the other players job to position themselves for your songs, thats OUR job. I think most mages / melee by lvl 60 kind of separate a bit anyways, so it shouldn't be that hard. If your range for certain songs is too big, try switching from stringed to wind instruments, they have a smaller area. Other than that, sometimes practice will let you know exactly how much room you need for certain songs, and the area it will cover. I used to have the same question you have, but my buddy I static with, who is lvl 75 brd told me it isn't the parties job to move for me, but my job to move so my songs land correctly, and since that piece of advice, i've never had problems, even in tight camping situations. Hope that helps ^^

[RuneGrey]

Generally I just throw up a small diagram like so...

(Melee names) -> (Monster from <bt>) -> (Paladin) - - - - > (Mage Name)

Of course, this sort of setup is ONLY necessary if you are trying to Ballad both the Paladin and the Mages, and that will be by their own request - otherwise, just move around as much as you need to. If a mage insists on sitting right on top of the melee group (or are meleeing themselves) then... they don't get mage songs. Simple as that.

Most parties where advanced positioning is needed will not be a problem, because it will be your tank requesting the special songs, etc. They'll find a way to communicate with you.

[Thingol]

To be honest most of the Jp I play with know exactly where to be. If they cant figgure it out after a while |I'm sorry| |I have plans|

[cloudedge]

In my opinion, it isn't the other players job to position themselves for your songs, thats OUR job.

um... i think of it different... you are correct that it is our job to land the song on them...i have no problem landing songs on them... bad positioning just takes a bit longer to judge the distance... (I already use wind instruments for ballad... and all other song i use the their respective +1 instruments.. so i have no problem with the song radius... but thx for the suggestion anyway)

however, it is for the benefit of the PT that we communicate with other member to help the PT function as efficiently as we can. While taking an extra 2 sec to judge the distance.. i could have landed an extra elegry/erase... Communication is never a bad thing. I am not mandating that if the JP don't stand where i want that i will leave pt.. i am just trying to benefit the PT by suggesting a way for the PT to be more efficient.

From my experience with all ppl 60+ most of them are willing/glad to stand in place to get the song they need.. some of them just often forgot about it in the beginning of PT and needs a reminder. I am sure the JP players are the same... most of them knows what the positioning should be with a brd..

This problem is most apparent when we have thfs or /thfs in the PT since I do keep double ballad on the pld. I just want a polite way to remind JP Melee to avoid staying next/behind to the pld when they're not doing SATA... =\

[Rilu]

If you are having problems with other melee standing in the way of SATA, then you need to find another party. Usually that kind of mess is ironed out between lvl's 30-40. I understand what you are saying, but I think it will take longer to worry about trying to communicate with the party as far as position, than it will to just know where we need to stand as a brd to land the songs on the right people. Also, 2 seconds does not make that big of a difference. Elegy lasts most the fight (if your party is good) so you shouldn't have to debuff the mob all that much. Threnody wears off much faster in my experience. Besides, the mob debuff songs have such a fast recast timer, you're not going to really be hurting if you need to wait 5seconds to cast another elegy (erase has a longer recast anyways.)

A good melee with SATA will only run behind the tank when they are ready for the skillchain anyways. When you start taking on mobs with Cone AOE's and such, they'll learn really fast, but most /thf or Thf mains will know that by now. Usually when the SATA character lines up behind the mob, its a good indicator that the skillchain is about to go anyways. In the JP parties I get, we don't even talk at all, no one really says anything, we just get the job done. You'll see TP reports, and that is about it, stuff runs smooth.

[cloudedge]

If you are having problems with other melee standing in the way of SATA, then you need to find another party.

I think u have misunderstand me... the problem is not thf or /thf or other melee stand in the way of SATA... the problem i was talking about is thf or /thfs stay behind the pld or relatively close to the pld after SATA...

I understand what you are saying, but I think it will take longer to worry about trying to communicate with the party as far as position, than it will to just know where we need to stand as a brd to land the songs on the right people.

that's why i am posting here to ask for a simple and polite way to tell the JP player what i mean... melee stand opposite of pld, mages stand behind pld. It is difficult to communicate because of the language barrier not because the concept is foreign... so that i don't have to spend so much time thinking up creative ways to use the translator...

And as i have mentioned before, i don't have a problem landing the song on the right people... bad positioning just takes a bit longer... which i consider it inefficent and would like to improve that by communicationg...

Also, 2 seconds does not make that big of a difference. Elegy lasts most the fight (if your party is good) so you shouldn't have to debuff the mob all that much. Threnody wears off much faster in my experience. Besides, the mob debuff songs have such a fast recast timer, you're not going to really be hurting if you need to wait 5seconds to cast another elegy (erase has a longer recast anyways.)

what i am saying is.. i wasted 2 second doing something that i could spend casting elegy or finale or erase or poisona or cure...
i want to play an effective bard.. and i consider being able to communicate with JP about the positioning issue a way of improving my asset as a brd.... =(

is there no one on the brd forum that knows japanese?

[Laehn]

How is that stuff our fault Rilu? How are we responsible for how other people move? We cant control them and we're stuck in one place as soon as we start singing. I dont get it. Thats like blaming a barber for shaving a bald spot on your head if you stand up in the middle of the cut.

[Rilu]

Well, i don't know what kind of parties you get <Disco parties perhaps ^^> but my melee don't move around all that much, just the SATA person behind the tank when WS is about to fire, other than that, they pretty much stand still while fighting. If your pld is smart, he/she will position him/herself so their back is to the mages to get ballad, or run back by the mages after the fight. Just like if my nin wants march over madrigal or minuet, I will run to where my song will ONLY hit him, i'm not going to tell him where he should stand, my job is to land it on him wherever he is standing.

Hey, if you can't control where your songs go, and on which party memebers they call, i'm sorry, maybe you should buy my video, now on sale at shops all over vanadeil "Bard: Songs and how to land them on the party members you want". It includes such hits as "Ballad for Mages, even pld if needbe" and "Dancin to the Oldies: Paeon 1 and Knights Minne I, the songs of the past" I'm tellin ya, they are going fast, pick one up while supplies last!!!!

[CarbonFibre]

Yeah, sometimes PLDs don't stand on mage side because mob may have directional special attacks (such as the foul breath on raptors). Language barrier can be frustrating at times.

[Laehn]

You didnt answer my question. How are we responsible for how other people move?

[Kagerou]

Ano, thiefsan mouchoto Paladin(knight)san kara hanarete kudasai
-excuse me, could ___(thf) stand a farther away from ____(pld)

___(member)san no chicaku ni idou shite kudasai
-please get closer to ____(member)

tatakateru aida, sonnani ugokanaide kudasai
-while we're fighting, please don't move around

[Apple Pie]

I just ask the melee to stand oposite of the pld, and mages behind pld.

Try these romaji. Trust me, I'm Japanese.

1) the melee to stand oposite of the pld

[Attacker's name]-san, [PLD's name]-san no hantaigawa ni tatte kudasai.

2) mages behind pld

a. If you want mages stand behind PLD,

Kouei ha [PLD's name]-san no ushiro ni tatte kudasai

b. If you want PLD to turn her/his back on mages,

[PLD's name]-san, kouei ni senaka wo mukete kudasai

See the picture attached.

[cloudedge]

Apple Pie and Lotus Wing, Thank you very much ^^ this is exactly what I need.. (copied to postit already and i'm gonna stick them to my monitor =P)

I would like a little bit more added to the thf's request though like... if I want to say:

excuse me, could ___(thf) stand a farther away from ____(pld) after SATA

after SATA, please get closer to ____(member)

I just don't want to make it sound like I don't understand what the thf is doing =(

[Rilu]

I never said you are responsible for how other people move, we are responsible for landing songs on the people that need them, period. If you are having problems doing that, then you need to do something different than just run up to melee and run back to mages. I"m sorry that different situations call for different tactics, but thats the game. Just as a pld's job is to keep hate, even if the whm over heals a bit, or a blm over nukes, the pld's job is to keep hate still, you don't just give up as a pld and stop tanking. Just like that, our job is to land songs on the party members, and its up to us to find the best way to do that, regardless of people moving around.

One of the things that separates normal players from good players, are those that can adapt to different situations and still get the job done. Case and point would be the following bard (not me by the way, another brd I know).

We are camping Bune and he spawns, pty member mistargets lizard next to Bune, but another pty member gets the pull on Bune and the melee engage. Pty is thf/nin war/nin, blm, brd and rdm. The bard then lullaby's the lizards to get them off the melee, but in doing so, got link from another lizard that was close, and as the fight progressed, the links became larger as he was forced to use horde lullaby and not just foe lullaby. While he is lullabying the adds, he needs to keep up with ballads, march on the tanks, elegy on Bune and finale on Bune, which he does without missing a beat. With this pty setup, this fight takes about 10 min or so, because the hate needs to be kept on the more evasive thf/nin, but the warrior needs to pull hate every once in a while for the thf to recast, but no TOO much hate where the thf can't get it back on the next skillchain. Now, according to your "How are WE responsible for other peoples actions" comment, you ARE responsible for the pty members actions, insofar as you are now responsible to make it work, even with a mistargeted pull at the beginning. You can't gripe and complain about a mistargeted pull, but rather, your planned songs need to go off and the mob still needs to be debuffed, and all the while, you are now responsible for the lullaby's, because that is YOUR job.

This bard could have cried and whined about "how come I have to worry about all these adds now, thats not my job" but rather he just took it in stride, and did his job. That is what makes him a better bard than the run of the mill bard you see in the game now adays. Hope that answered your question. ^^