Etude Songs

[lionx]

I have bought the CHR, MND, and INT up spells for mages during my time at lvl 28ish. Now the thing is..should i even bother with the other stat boosting Etudes? I mean wouldnt Madrigal, Minuet, Minne, and Prelude be better for those types of bonuses? Or would getting those Etude actually matter? How about only to lvl 40?

Basically, i just dont know if these are worth my time and money to spend on if it wont help that much in the long run.

[Schozie]

well, at my level (48) I only really use the 3 youve said there. int for blm, mnd if theres only whm, and sometimes CHR if I want to make sure of lullaby.

From what i've seen/read.... the mambo line is useful for nin tanks, though I dont think its used until quite late in the game mainly? (maybe for hmn).

Also in one of Teffies vids I think I saw him buff people with STR song (and another, i forget which) before ther AA fight. These were the later versions I think though, that are individual target, rather than AOE.

As far as the others go, I doubt you really need them, I like to make sure I have every song though.

I sometimes use the dex song when farming with my thf friend, thats really just for fun though, the SA difference doesnt seem to be *that* noticeable.

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Ok, yes I just realised I mentioned mambos, which arent etudes, but i'll leave that in anyway.

[Rekiem]

I only use the individual Etude. Combined with a Rose Harp +1, they are pretty nice.

[Peanut_Midgard]

Only three of the early etudes are useful, INT, MND and CHR (in that order of usefulness). Before you get Ballad II, INT etudes is really nice for the nukers. The resist rate IS noticably lower combined with threnody.

MND is useful if you want to help the RDM or WHM land the white debuffs, other than that it's not so useful.

CHR is only for yourself.

The single etudes are much more useful in the later levels

[Laehn]

You probably wont use the AOE party etudes once you get ballad 2. The only time i can think of using any of the etudes aside from the int chr and mnd etudes are when i was showing people what they did. You might use them past 55 if you have a blm heavy party or something.

[UnnamedGalka]

Pre-level 55, you should use a Ballad I/Learned Etude combo on your mages. If there is no nuker in the PT, Ballad I/Spirited Etude works just fine.

However, 55 and beyond, the AOE Etudes become obsolete. EVERY mage wants you to stack both Ballads onto them.

But Etudes aren't completely finished...the single-target Etudes that you can start learning in the 60's do come in handy. For example, I always use a Bewitching Etude on myself before I attempt to land any debuffs. And just recently, I've discovered that Herculean Etude is very nice to stick on your PT's heavy meleer in place of Minuet IV -- I just wish Bards could learn this one earlier than level 74. I also get requests for Uncanny Etude from time to time, too.

It's an extremely rare moment for me if I use Logical Etude or Sage Etude, though -- the Ballads still take precedence over them.

[Laehn]

Not every mage prefers ballad 1 over etudes. I always give sage etude to the rdm or blm in the pt, always always. It helps a bunch and most rdms and blms dont have MP issues like whms. Those two jobs rely more heavily on +stats than mp, and you'll save more net MP if the rdm and blm are getting fewer resists. Not to mention, most blms post 68 have ballad 1 built in. And and, rdms usually dont need 6 mp/3 sec. So, if you end up in a pt with 2 blms and a rdm, you could probably get away with learned etude with some good results. Depending on what youre fighting, it could mean the difference between 500~ or so dmg on MB.

[Rekiem]

Problem when you dont give Ballad 1 to the mage is that after each fights, they have something like 40 or so MP missing. Now take that 40 MP and multiply it by 6 for a Chain #5. Thats 240 MP they will be missing for the ending fight. Which means that the BLM and the RDM won't be able to nuke has much. Many times I've tried getting Chain 5 in some PT and even if the monster were available, the mage were not able keep up because their MP was too little for a next fight and they needed to rest.

The little 1MP/3sec from Ballad 1 might seem small when your mage have like 800 MP+ but its the stacking effect over time that really matters.

[Faranim]

+INT doesn't affect Resist rates on spells. All it does is increase the damage.

[UnnamedGalka]

Problem when you dont give Ballad 1 to the mage is that after each fights, they have something like 40 or so MP missing. Now take that 40 MP and multiply it by 6 for a Chain #5. Thats 240 MP they will be missing for the ending fight.

Agreed. That extra tic of MP from Ballad I makes a pretty significant difference over time.

[Laehn]

Every pt ive been in, the mages still had 3/4th MP at the end of chain 5. I just dont see people having MP issues much except for plds and i ALWAYS stack ballad on them. Resist issues is another thing. If youre straining for chain 5, youre probably fighting things too hard or you should reconsider your tactics. Its all a matter of pulling fast enough for chain 5 and having enough enemies, i havent had the issue of waiting on any mages(especially the blms) mp for a very long time unless something really bad happens, in which case someones usually dead anyways, and its 0probably me. :3

You also have to remember, more int means fewer resists and more dmg. I havent a doubt in my mind that debuffs are more important and can potentially save MORE mp over time than ballad. The difference between a resisted nuke, a partially resisted nuke, and nuke that lands can mean A LOT of dmg, and i for one will take that extra dmg over a crappy 1 mp/3sec. And most blms and rdms ive talked to agree with me that fewer resists or more dmg > more mp. Its a different play style than probably most brds, but then again, no two parties are the same and they need different things. I wouldnt sing blade madrigal on a rng, or snipe a ninja tank with ballad.

Gotta also remember, past 51, most good mages regen more MP while resting than with ballad. Clear Mind + Food (+MP while resting) + dark staff equates to a lot more MP regained while resting.

Talked to 5 blms today and a few rdms i know, they all told me that int effects resists (difference between partial dmg and full dmg). I've never had a complaint about using etudes in parties, in fact, i get a lot of encouragement from blms and rdms for stepping out of the normal routine (i hate routines) and giving them a song thats more beneficial for them. And if youre blm is going through ALL of his mp in the time it takes for a chain 5, i feel sorry for your pld, and i hope everyone likes taru-kabobs.

Like ive said before, I suggest everyone talk with their party and ask them how often they miss the mob, how hard they usually hit the mob, and ask them what they would prefer, if someone wants something different than the normal madrigal minuet ballad ballad routine, then i suggest you give it to them. They know A LOT more about their job and whats important than i probably do, or respectfully, any brd probably does. Even if youre really experienced in the job, theyre probably equipped differently than what you wore when you played the same job and they might even be after a different type of play style than what youre used to. Ive heard of sam/rngs before, they sure wouldnt apply to the normal madrigal+minuet routine. Ive also had the pleasure of ninjas who liked using lots of shurikens, another exception to that normal routine.

Someone who rarely misses, say a super rich rng, might have more to gain over stacked minuet than minuet and prelude. Or, for instance, say youre pting with 2 monks, and a ninja against some undead, they might want you to sing victory march instead of minuet or madrigal. Or, if youre party is missing way too much and youre stuck in the place youre at for one reason or another, you might have to resort to stacking madrigal.

Songs are given to bards to be used. Granted, many of them are situational (like aoe etudes) but theyre still helpful and its important to have them all if you happen to run into one of those situations. Nothing is more embarassing than having someone request a song or spell and you have to reply with "im sorry, but i never thought it would be useful".

[Faranim]

[Broken Record Mode]
+INT doesn't affect resist rates.
[/Broken Record Mode]

Give a BLM +50 INT and their unresisted nukes will do about 100 more damage. They'll still get resisted at the same rate, regardless of their INT. Unless you have a song that gives +Elemental Magic Skill, you can't change the "accuracy" of their spells.

Threnody on the other hand will definately help with resists.

Pre-55, Ballad is #1 Priority for mages. Their 2nd song doesn't really matter, although +INT or +MND Etude is generally used.

[UnnamedGalka]

One thing that bothers me about your post:

Gotta also remember, past 51, most good mages regen more MP while resting than with ballad. Clear Mind + Food (+MP while resting) + dark staff equates to a lot more MP regained while resting.

OK...so why not add an extra 3 MP refresh from your Ballads on top of all of that and help them replenish their mana that much faster? Even with food, Dark Staff, etc., almost every single mage that I've PTed with much preferred a stacking of Ballads over a Ballad II/some Etude combo.

The difference in refresh time that a stacking of the Ballads makes is quite noticeable.

[Peanut_Midgard]

I initially had doubts about the statement that INT has little to no effect on resist rate, so I researched on the Black Mage forum a little and find that even though I see both types of statements, the ones that say it doesn't affect resist are usually the higher level ones, so I would believe them

Now I have another question, does increasing MND help landing debuffs at all? Meaning, if I sing Spirited Etudes for the RDM or WHM, would it help them land debuffs? If so, is it for both white and black? Or is it just the same and has no bearing whatsoever and only enfeebling skill counts? If that's the case, wouldn't it render Spirited Etude almost completely useless other than maybe getting a little bit more return on the mage's non-capped cures?

[lionx]

I am not sure on this, i am generally lead to believe as a WHM reading up on the three main mage forums that MND affects WHM Enfeebles like Paralyze, and Slow, and INT affects the Blind and Poison type. I generally do have a much easier time at lvl 51 landing enfeebles on Robber crabs(even tho its horrible i land em at least some of the time...the Blind Enfeeble i cant land at all), with WHM spells. But if INT doesnt affect resist rate i dont know. Maybe resist rate as in Elemental dmg and not Enfeeble, they could be seperate things.

Just my look onto it, i am personally not too sure since some of you guys said it does not matter for resist.