My first (six) BCNM(s)

[Seeker_Onos]

Wish it was that cheap on Panda...

on a good week, it will sell for around 80K. Lately it has edged up to 140K.

And forget about Monster Signa -> 330K.

[Layoneil]

i'd believe it if he bought it in Bastok. some people haven't gone to Jeuno and doesn't know the "right" price for somethings. and the price history in Bastok may have it at very low and sold only a few times.

not on my server though (bought mine for 100k), no fools of that kind to exploit (though there are plenty of other kinds of fools).

[tnt118]

Glad to see that people are finding this post useful. I did 4 more successful BCNM this past weekend, bringing my record to 12 wins, 3 losses, 1 tie.

The most difficult part continutes to be the first 1-2 minutes, where are you trying to establish control and get into your groove. One sleep isn't enough to hold hate, and if there's an early waker a hit or two will lessen your hate enough that the mandy will go running towards others. During this opening period, success is dependant as much on the others as it is on the bard. Dealing with strays (when even partial resists and fubar your plans) is critical.

I was looking *very* carefully for this 'shift' that was mentioned as being the start of their attack delay, but simply couldn't see it. Being Taru, I'm looking for any slight advantage I can gain, as being in the red simply isn't in the interest of my best health.

What I want to start doing is using a foot-activated timer to time out my next lullaby. (Don't laugh, I use one at my job all the time and am used to using them.) Barring partial resists, Horde Lullaby should wear off at the exact same time every time. What I would do is start my singing 1.5 seconds before it wears off to help eliminate taking some damage. I imagine I could start 2-2.5 seconds early, but I want to leave some margin for error (botched lullaby = death).

Our times averaged around 21 minutes. Not great, but consistant, safe wins. I'll take that every time.

Now for a little bit of bragging rights: one time one of the WHM didn't enter the circle. Gah! We're still not exactly sure why it happened, but by the time we realized the problem we'd already started fighting and he couldn't get in reguardless. Rest of the group (BRD, WHM, BLM, PLD, RNG) was still able to pull off the win in about 26-27 minutes. I know BCNM40 is possible with 5, but usually the group is prepared for it. We most certainly were not.

Seeing the prediciment we were in, I used Soul Voice to boost Ballad and Minne, since one WHM was now going to have to do the job of two. BLM did manafront to pull off several curgas, and I think later the RNG 2-houred for the fun of it. That re-established control of the arena.. and from there it was business as usual; although we were all a little extra careful for rest of the fight since our margin for error was nonexistant.

So I think I'm done with BCNM40 now and am setting my sights on BCNM60. In a couple of days I'm going to start compling some information together and formulating straigies including PT formation, ideal equipment and other aspects. Any input from experienced BCNM60 bards would be most appricated!

[Xerlic]

I agree that the first minute is the most crucial moment when doing Balgas Dais BC40. The greatest danger I have is when he casts Paralyga right off the bat and the mages and bard get hit with it. Usually it's not a problem if the melees have the black pulled and only they get hit. As far as controlling hate and grouping them together, I usually do it myself. I don't like to rely on a tank or puller to gather them up for me.

So, what I do is run straight in and have the mandragoras converge on me. I almost always target a white since the black will sometimes stop moving towards you to cast a spell. If you twitch and hit your horde lullaby macro and hit the black when he's nowhere near you and the whites, you might as well tell your party to exit the circle. The crucial moment here is watching for AOE paralyze. I have the WHM make a macro for a paralyna targetted specifically at me and to hit it once she sees my (Paralyzed) macro. I also have the mages stand next to me until I get a few sleeps off to build up hate. This way, the whites don't go running off to smack a mage that's halfway across the circle.

Once you have that initial first sleep off, it's pretty much clockwork if your group is experienced. I've noticed that the sleep before they attack thing also seems to be lag dependant as the text can appear immediately or slowly. i guess visual aids such as watching the onions' stances would help too.

[poweryoga]

i did a few BCNMs the other night....

First run, we were doing fine.... but then pld got flooded and i ended up tanking everything. We won, with 2 minutes to spare.

Second run... bard lagged for 3 minutes... ran out of MP and we were forced to exit.

Third run... doing pretty good, but I accidently got flooded. They killed the black one and raised me, but then brd lagged again and got killed....

Third, fourth, and fifth run... went smoothly. No lag, ran away from the floods, and everything went according to plan. I ended up tanking everything anyways (rangers do way too much damage in BCNMs) but it was good. PLD ends up using berserk and just smacking away.... hehe.

[Humehero]

I would like to ask a few of the experienced master BCNM Bards a few quetions. I tried the BCNM 40 for the first time last night, and it was a nightmare. Here's the set up, Bard (me), WHM, DRK, DRG, MNK, and PLD. I did not set this up, my linkshell asked me to join as I am the only level 40 + bard.
The plan was to have me run in first and sleep all of the Mandy’s. I had my issues with this as I all have seen is that that the PLD or tank should go grab them all, round them all up so the first sleep goes off without a hitch. (Correct me if there is a better method plz).

So I run into the arena, which was pretty cool btw, and I soon realize that the WHM and MNK were not in the arena yet so we were screwed from the beginning, and it was my fault probably as I busted into the arena, and did not think all members were not in yet, easily correctable for next time. Well I died in about 12 sec. and then the other 3 died because the WHM did not enter. We were going to try it again, but the DRG got pissed that he died and disbanded, oh well, but I felt pretty bad about everything. I sent a /tell to the person who used their orb and told him/her that I would use my orb for them, as we cant trade them.
So, basically I was taking complete ownership of the loss, and the plan was to have the orb user lot first on whatever we won, so I lose that. No big deal in my mind, I am a bard so I will be able to this many many times I hope : ).

So with all that said I have a few questions as I am eager to get revenge on the Evil Mandy’s:

1. How do you successful BCNM bards work the first sleep round? Is it typical for the Bard to go in first and have them beat on me while I sing Horde Lullaby or should the PLD or tank gather them all up and then I follow him/her closely and sleep all the mobs? I tried going in first, well I charge in and they all start beating on me, I target one of them and start singing Horde Lullaby, honestly I don’t think I even finished my singing because they were not sleeping as I died. I also need to stand with my back to a wall so they can’t get behind me but I would love to hear your thoughts on positioning.

2. I also wanted to share what my equipment was to see if there can be any improvements:
· Full Hume RSE. I know the DEF is low but I like the extra MP because we only had one healer and it gives me +2 CHR.
· 2 - +2 CHR rings
· Corsette
· Noble Ribbon
· Bird Whistle
· Mary Horn, I was thinking about using my harp for the first round of sleep next time for a better range, any thoughts?
· I had +17 with out my CHR song which I had on me as ran into the arena.

I appreciate any feedback you have, and thank you in advance for you comments and thoughts!

[Vilurum]

Send in the melee with the highest defense for the first sleep, but use Minne II (ideally with Harp +1) and Ballad on the whole group before running in. I don't care if this is a DRK and they're whining about their lack of defense, they can survive a round (or two, if you're a bit slow) of hits at least as well as you can. You don't stand *right* next to them. Practice outside of BCNM to see how far back you can be to toss a Horde. Stay that far back. And be ready to move around and cancel your casting if the black one is evil and uses Paralyga.

Have your first sleep be using a harp, it'll get more range since they won't be quite so tightly clumped yet. The point is to get them hating you and gathering around you at this point, not necessarily to have them all sleeping and as long as possible (that can wait).

Once you've done your first sleep, Cure II yourself up to full (this means you're getting hate rather than mages). Have the melees pull the black one to one side of the circle, and you run over to the other side (which will hopefully not be a big move). Mages should come stand next to you, so mandys won't move if the mages do get hate. The mandys will cheerfully come over to visit you when they wake up.

When the mandys wake up and come over to you, they should arrange themselves in something resembling a semicircle. Target what you think will be the middle one and resleep with the harp (that should get them all, even if it's one or two off of center). Retarget as necessary and resleep with the Mary's Horn from this point on. If you miss one, just let it beat on you, won't be a big deal. You can move around a bit to adjust the position of any awake mandys to make them into a tigher clump.

In the meantime, you're Cure II'ing yourself as much as you can (do this first thing after resleeping, so early wakers don't hit you), and maintaining Ballad for yourself and the mages. Your second song should be either Minne II for defense, or Paeon III for HP regen. Resleep whenever they wake up. When the melees kill the black one off, they can pull any white mandy they please *except* the one whose name is red - that is, your lullaby target. The one they pull will still hate you, so you'll have to tank it a while until they get enough hate to move it away.

Later in the battle your main irritation is sleep. Once the black one is dead, mages should move someplace safely far from Dream Flower. (By that time, you have enough hate that the mandys won't run after the mages.) You being asleep isn't an issue, you'll wake up by being hit when you need to resleep, and they occasionally poison you too. Sleeping mages mean no healing, and sleeping melees mean mandys aren't dying (you do have that 30 minute time limit).

I'd highly suggest replacing one of the melees with a BLM/WHM, RDM/WHM, or WHM/whatever for added healing. With a LOT of damage output, or all healer-capable people using Yagudo Drinks or something, (or even neither case, if you're all experienced and well-equipped) you can get away with one mage. But when just starting out, play it safe and bring two. Don't have the mages do anything but heal (and Elemental Seal + Silence if Flood). BLM can't afford to waste MP nuking until late in the battle. They should take turns resting for MP while the other one handles all the healing.

As for which melee to replace, DRG and MNK are the weakest links in this case. PLD can help heal (and, not so importantly, tank). DRK has Stun, which is godly for stopping Flood.

Equipment is good. Add Paper Knife when you can, it's 2 more CHR. Even if you have a signa, don't use it. It gives -5 VIT and 6 more CHR than the Paper Knife, and you need the VIT more than that extra CHR. +17 or +19 is fine. You may want to replace your RSE with Cuir defense equipment - I do it in hume RSE too, though, for the HP and MP. Most important thing is to eat defense food (crab or fishkabob) before going in. Half hour foods eaten before entering will also give you an idea of if you're about to run out of time.

Macros you should have (probably in their own special BCNM40 macro set):

Ballad w/ harp
Minne II w/ harp (Harp +1 if possible)
Paeon III w/ harp
Horde Lullaby w/ harp
Horde Lullaby w/ Mary's Horn (or Royal Spearman's Horn for those w/o MH)
Foe Lullaby w/ Mary's Horn (you can switch to Foe for the last mandy, or to quickly resleep any which missed Horde, just be warned they'll wake up slightly later than the rest)
Cure II on *yourself* (you do not want to move your target cursor off the central mandy)
Paralyna on *yourself*, for emergencies when you're hit with Paralyga
Party message to say FLOOD! with a <call> of some sort in it. Spam this if the black mandy starts casting Flood.

Your other buffs and debuffs, for now, you should ignore. When you get comfortable with sleep duration and positioning, you can try running over and buffing melees right after you resleep, then running back to where you were standing. Or using Elegy with <st>. But until you're really comfortable, don't take that risk.

Oh yeah ... and never ever let anyone use a damage over time attack on the sleeping mandys. Especially not Diaga. >_<

[Xerlic]

Don't forget about Divine Seal. A divine seal + Cure II on yourself really helps the mages especially in the beginning when you have the 7 whites on you.

For that group setup, I agree with the previous poster that you really should get another mage. I would swap out the dragoon since their damage output drops once the mandragoras put the wyvern to sleep, though you might be able to wake it up now with Spirit Link. An experienced party can do BC40 with just about any group, but for an inexperienced group I'd definitely try to bring along another mage with emphasis on Red Mage. Convert really helps.

[tnt118]

So I run into the arena, which was pretty cool btw, and I soon realize that the WHM and MNK were not in the arena yet so we were screwed from the beginning,

Something I realized on only my last run ... a yellow icon will appear next to protect/shell when the orb-trader enters, then everyone else can enter too. We had a WHM not able to get in; not sure if it was a time issue, or if they weren't standing on the circle itself ... we had no idea.

1. How do you successful BCNM bards work the first sleep round?

Maybe a decked-out galkan bard *might* be able to survive running in first, but I still wouldn't suggest it. Anything else and you are simply going to die. A touch of patience is key here, because you do need to wait for them to gather close enough for the first sleep to hit them all (and yes, harp for range is what I recommend). They'll probably get two rounds of attacks in in that time, which a PLD or MNK can take -- but you cannot.

2. I also wanted to share what my equipment was to see if there can be any improvements:

First you didn't mention any food, so if you aren't using them, Fish Chiefkabobs are *key*. Because they are a percentage increase of DEF (meaning the more you have the better they work) I picked the Cuir set of armors (which happen to be fairly cheap). If you have two healers, your own healing will be secondary and +MP equipment shouldn't be needed. Still, in my group I do one Cure II after each round of sleeping. Corsette +1 isn't cheap, but if you can swing it it'll help.

Once you've done your first sleep, Cure II yourself up to full

A good idea, although I have my own little personal healer that stands literally right on top of me. If they get hate, the mobs won't even move. Same results, different stratigy.

[Xerlic]

Something I realized on only my last run ... a yellow icon will appear next to protect/shell when the orb-trader enters, then everyone else can enter too. We had a WHM not able to get in; not sure if it was a time issue, or if they weren't standing on the circle itself ... we had no idea.

The yellow icon is the Burning Circle icon. It basically signifies that your party is able to enter the circle. Once the fight starts, nobody else can get in. Meaning if someone starts the fight by running into the arena and aggro'ing whatever mob is in there, then nobody else is able to enter. This is most likely what happened.

Maybe a decked-out galkan bard *might* be able to survive running in first, but I still wouldn't suggest it. Anything else and you are simply going to die. A touch of patience is key here, because you do need to wait for them to gather close enough for the first sleep to hit them all (and yes, harp for range is what I recommend). They'll probably get two rounds of attacks in in that time, which a PLD or MNK can take -- but you cannot.

While I do agree that a melee type class will take the hits better than you, the bard, can, I will disagree that a bard will simply die when they run in. I do BC this way and have won the past dozen times with this method. I am also a Taru Taru. If you know what you're doing, you'll only take hits from maybe 3-4 of them. The AOE sleep will hit the other ones as they are running towards you. I take less than 25 damage per hit by using Cuir +1 and eating crab. I also use Monster Signa.

[Humehero]

I would like to thank all of you for posting's you comments and suggestions, this really helped me get a good idea of what should happen. We are going to try a few things different tonight, one we have a RDM and we swapped out the DRG. The last time I did eat crab just prior to going into the circle and I had Minne II and my CHR etude on me when I ran in for the first sleep. So after talking it over with our team yesterday, the plan is that I (the bard) still go in first. So for all the experienced Bard's who go in first, where do you stop to start singing the first Horde Lullaby. I want them to be close enough so I can sleep them all, and have you ever had the Black one use flood rightaway? I don't think I can survive Flood and 7 white Mandy's beating on me, I have about 679 HP's. Please share andy ideas/thoughts you have.

Again, Thank you all for your comments, I will follow up tomorrow and let you know how we did!! Wish us luck!!!

[Vilurum]

You have a PLD and you're still running in first? O_o

Seriously, the PLD has significantly more HP and defense than you do, you'll have to pause after you're done running before you can sing (otherwise you may get that problem with it thinking you were still moving when you were singing, and having your song cancelled), and if you get killed it's death for the whole party. There's no need to put the party at extra risk.

While it's true that it's doable if you run in first (as the previous poster attests), you also need a lot of experience with how the mandys will move around, how fast your horde casts, and how much range it has.

You can get this practice (try moving around when you're down to three mandys or so, and practice sleeping them as they wake up and chase you), but don't try to *learn* to do it at the beginning of battle (honestly it's the riskiest part) when you're new to BCNMs in the first place.

[Monkor]

Best BCNM ever has to be WAR, RNG, RNG, RNG, WHM, BRD. Do a search for "Faranim" and "BCNM40" on Google to see the video. The craziest part about it is that they finish in under 8 minutes. >_<

[dhermann]

It's over here .

[Faranim]

In my opinion:

Tank classes (PLD and NIN) are useless in BCNM40. Tanks are NOT required AT ALL... those mandras are a bunch of wimps. Get yourself a Bard, healer, and damage damage damage damage.

Also, I insist on being the first to run in now since too many people don't know how to group mobs together well. Pre-buff with Blink + Stoneskin and I take no more than 100 damage on the initial run-in with the mandras.

From there I just let the damage dealers beat the crap out of them one at a time.

BCNM40 is all about the damage. If you don't have a party lineup capable of dealing lots of damage, the BC40 will take a LONG time and be much more difficult compared to a short BC40.

Then again, I'm all about speed and throw safety out the window. The faster they die, the less time they have to kill you!