Question on SubJob..

[George]

Now aside from it not being as benaficial as a BRD/WHM combo to the PT, is there any major disadvantage to a BRD/WAR combo? If im correct, BRD's songs do not rely on MP, so having a magic sub doesnt seem necessary for a successful character (correct me if im wrong), except a BRD/WHM being more useful to a PT. Please give me your opinions from your own experiences/knowledge. Thanks.

[Nassa]

Well, from what I understand, Brd/War doesn't make a good combo because the 2 classes contradict each other, or at least they don't help each other out.

1. In a party situation: Having the warrior sub will give you more HP and more weapon skills. It'll be true that a Brd/War can do taunts in emergency situations and maybe you can even use a range weapon and shoot at the enemy between songs for some damage. But a Brd/War cannot take damage well, and while the Brd is engaged in melee fighting, it can't sing unless it disengages. Therefore, it's kind of meaningless to have a War sub if you can't engage in melee combat, without giving up your main function as a Bard, which is to sing and aid your PT. Plus there are other more useful things you can do such as cast cures, def/pwr up's, etc.

2. In a solo situation: well same thing... a fighting bard can't be singing at the same time. You can start a fight with a song, but what do you do when the song's effect run out in 60 seconds or so? It'll take several seconds to re-sing the song, and the monster won't wait for you to finish singing before attacking. I suppose you can heal yourself after a battle, but you're be fighting as a warrior half your max level. So a Brd/War 10/5 can probably only take on monsters that a lvl 5 War can solo, and that doesn't give a lot of exp.

So in conclusion, Brd/War is a bad bad combo in my books... the BRD/RDM on the other hand.... I'm still waiting for those more informed than myself to respond to my other thread.

Nassa

[George]

Your logic seems flawed. A BRD/WHM would have an even harder time soloing, because their mainly support characters. I dont plan on soloing that much, I dont think anyone who decides to use a BRD as their Job plans on soloing. Yes a BRD/WHM would be slightly more beneficial to the group, but its not like using /WAR is going to hurt the BRD. You say the 2 jobs contradict themselves, but they dont. Theyre just 2 different types of Jobs. My Sub doesnt help my Main out which is Support/Sing, but no Sub can compliment sing because it doesnt rely on MP. Secondly, how can you say BRD/WAR is 'bad bad' and then say that BRD/RDM is different. RDM will give you a slight ATK boost, but not as much as a WAR, and as for magics, going all WHM would be better. From what Ive read, the BRD/RDM do attack between songs and as long as theirs a WHM in the party it doesnt seem to deter the efficiency of the party. I wasnt going to argue with you but Im bored at 4:30 in the morning, and dont see how a BRD/RDM would be better than a BRD/WAR when most likely your going to want to attack with the /RDM, and if you wernt, then /RDM is utterly pointless because going for a pure magic-based sub would be better. But again it comes down to playing what you want. Not that your stupid, or your opinion is irrelevant but I'd rather get the opinions of people who have played BRD's in the game, or have game experience/knowledge. I know as much as you from browsing various sites and forums, but forum posts could never replace game experience.

[tomfin10]

o_O There's a huge difference between WAR and RDM. WAR is a tank. RDM can use Black Magic, White Magic, and attack fairly well. If you do BRD/RDM you'll have White Magic with some Black Magic. BRD/WAR would just add tanking abilities onto you. If you don't plan to solo then why do you think /WAR would be better than a /<Mage>?

[Nassa]

First of all, you did ask for people to respond from their experience/knowledge , and you can certainly gain knowledge from reading the forums without having played the game. Secondly, if you don't value my opinion, then just ignore what I say. Other people besides you do read this forum, and it might be useful to someone else. Thirdly, there is a big difference between a warrior and a red mage. If you had read my other thread you would've known that I said I couldn't decide between brd/whm or brd/rdm, and gave arguments for why the red mage sub might be better than whm.

So to answer your original question, the disadvantage of a brd/war is that the /war doesn't add too much to your bard and you'll be missing out on the advantages of a brd/mage subclass. A sub job can only add on to a main job and will never hurt the main. Which means, the worst that a sub job can do is to not add anything to your main job.

Nassa

[George]

Im sorry if I sounded harsh or if it came out as an attack on you but I wasnt trying to start a flame war. I appreciated your opinion but I'd rather get the opinions of people who have played the game, thats all. Im not saying your stupid or questioning your itelligence, I just dont see how being /WAR makes a BRD less of a BRD. It doesnt help the main but it doesnt make him less efficient. Sorry if I offended you, I had no intent to. I actually had a polite post before but I deleted it :sweat:

[George]

Originally posted by tomfin10
o_O There's a huge difference between WAR and RDM. WAR is a tank. RDM can use Black Magic, White Magic, and attack fairly well. If you do BRD/RDM you'll have White Magic with some Black Magic. BRD/WAR would just add tanking abilities onto you. If you don't plan to solo then why do you think /WAR would be better than a /<Mage>?

I dont necessarily think its better, obviously going /WHM or /RDM are better for a PT.

[Fallnight]

well.... u will not solo for exp when u hit lv 15 .... becasueis pointless

u will solo to make money ... ant that point .. what u sub will not really matter because the monster u are killing is WAY lower lv then u r

as for rdm .......... don't look to small on RDM..... @ lv 66 ... u will want to sub rdm for solo

as for pt ... again doesn't matter what u sub u will get pt .. just because u r a bard ... however.... right now ... ppl pick sub whm over sub rdm orver anyother weird combos ;

[Maxim]

I PTed with a level 24 BRD/WAR who was 100 EXP away from level 25 before (she leveled up on our first fight and got Ballad, the MP regen song). I was the WHM in the PT. Before the PT leader invited her, he asked everyone in the PT if it was okay to do so because the bard's sub job was WAR. You only see leaders consulting the whole party if it's okay to invite a person to a level up PT if the person has a really crazy job combination.

I kept my eye on the bard the entire time because I knew she wouldn't be performing very well due to her low rank (rank 2) and sub job, but I wanted to really make sure if BRD/WAR works or not. Here's a few things I noticed:

- She never taunted. Once.
- She used a one-handed sword and missed a lot orid 0~5 damage.
- We were fighting in Batallia where Tigers use a paralyzing ability. Since she didn't sub WHM so I was left all alone to remedy four people of the status effect, which is really tedious for one person.
- I used my two hour ability twice, one very shortly after the PT started and the second time right after the two hour was up. I probably wouldn't have had to do that if the BRD subbed WHM and didn't leave me to be the only healer.
- Fortunately, there were no deaths.
- But there might have been if she taunted.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Nassa
1. In a party situation: Having the warrior sub will give you more HP and more weapon skills. It'll be true that a Brd/War can do taunts in emergency situations and maybe you can even use a range weapon and shoot at the enemy between songs for some damage. But a Brd/War cannot take damage well, and while the Brd is engaged in melee fighting, it can't sing unless it disengages. Therefore, it's kind of meaningless to have a War sub if you can't engage in melee combat, without giving up your main function as a Bard, which is to sing and aid your PT. Plus there are other more useful things you can do such as cast cures, def/pwr up's, etc.

You can sing while engaged in a enemy .

[Radamvice]

After a little thought it plainly obvious to me after playing the game, that a brd/whm is the best way to go to be useful for your pt. Frankly, pt is all that matters in this game, solo you arent going to get anywhere...so im not concerned with it.

As soon as the brd gets ballad it is his primary function in the pt, mp regen, he has many other uses, but he will always have ballad effect on any effective pt. That said, its a waste if the brd himself has no mp to regen. No mp on the brd is wasted potential, if you see what i mean.

As a support class in this game there are very few useful sub jobs. Seeing how you are support, whm is the only real effective sub job for your use in a pt. Melee sub is useless to you because you simply are not a melee character, and subbing a melee job is not going to change that, and the other mage subs simply arent effective enough at 1/2 level to compare to the whm sub.

Do what you like, but truly effective options are lacking here.

[sudo]

I know there's already a thread for this but I wanted to know how likely would a pt invite a bard/beast master

Via the uber cool stats calculator, a bard/whm taru at lv 70/35 would have the following stats:

HP: 869 MP:184 Str: 53 Dex:59 vit: 57 Agi:56 Int:72 MND:61 CHR:70

I don't know about you but 200 MP doesn't seem to be very much. I'm only lv 16 whm and I already have that much MP. Frankly I can't imagine what you'd be able to do at higher levels when cure 1 doesn't seem effective at all anymore.

Wouldn't it be better to just get a beast master and let the mob tank for you? Just have the pt sit back and regen while the mobs whale away at eachother. It'd be lots of fun to take bets on who wins! And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the pt get exp for things that the beast master's pet kills? so it's win win as far as I know.

Any comments?:spin:

[Radamvice]

Well those stats will be augmented by your equipment, im lvl 18 brd/whm atm, with 7x mp, and i love every point of it....though a good portion of it is from items. Im sure a lvl 70 brd will have quite a bit better options for +mp items, and alot more mp than the calculator there displays, ignoring the fact that they are notoriously wrong with certain combinations.

I find when i am in melee range of the monster, i can be a liability to ae attacks and aggro caused by my songs i cast...ill still raise my dagger in pt for when i solo, but id never consider being in there regularily with some pretense that i was being more useful, somehow, by whacking the monster. It just isnt the case, thats obvious at lvl 18 to me.

I constantly search for the best ways to remain efficient with the jobs i play, sue me, its the way i play. Whm or rdm subs are useful...the rest are for fun, simply put, and even with the admittedly low mp youre doomed to have, it has been, and talking to other higher lvl bards in game, will continue to be the most effective choices available.