TP change (4/17/2006)

[neighbortaru]

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8867

looks like the TP changes are pretty "drastic"

[Armando]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

Drastic? Yes. Necessary? Yes. Fair? Yes.

It's about they made TP gain fair for all :3 I'm very happy

[Taskmage]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

I don't suppose someone would like to sum it up?

[neighbortaru]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

(They lowered the TP floor). It's 4.5 when you Dual Wield. It's 4.66% single wield. At least 4.66% is the least amount of tp anyone will receive as my 150 damage dagger gives me that when Dual Wielding.

Funny they do this, because now what is the king of tp gain? Multi-hit weapons still. It didn't hurt them much, which is the power aspect of war (War without Joy or Ridill offhand wasn't that amazingly strong IMO).

What they should've done is increased tp gain at the top end, but left the bottom end alone.

This will effect:
Monks + Nin's slightly.
U/U nin's a lot.
Non-multi-hit weapons Thieves a LOT, they hurt me a good bit. Nothing amazing, but I don't like it.

looks like a good summary by Eaglestrike

[Armando]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

Basically, they...
1) Removed the TP floor, thus, dual weilding with low-delay weapons doesn't have a TP advantage.
2) Increased the TP gain of two-handed weapons so that they gain TP proportional to their Delay. Great Axes used to gain 11.2 TP per hit, now they gain around 13-ish. A 240 Delay weapon would get 6.4 TP per hit (x2 = 12.8) while a 480 Delay weapon would only get 12.

They essentially made TP gain accross different types of weapons fairly equal.

[Macht]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

Basically, they...
1) Removed the TP floor, thus, dual weilding with low-delay weapons doesn't have a TP advantage.
2) Increased the TP gain of two-handed weapons so that they gain TP proportional to their Delay. Great Axes used to gain 11.2 TP per hit, now they gain around 13-ish. A 240 Delay weapon would get 6.4 TP per hit (x2 = 12.8) while a 480 Delay weapon would only get 12.

They essentially made TP gain accross different types of weapons fairly equal.

Hmm, wonder if this effected Bows and Guns any and how...

[WishMaster3K]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

I'm still confused:

Negatah: but nin get dual weild 4-7
Negatah: so are they effected or just subs who can only get DW3?
Negatah: its not described too well
Negatah: i always got 5tp for a katana swing
Negatah: 5 or 6 cuz i have tp bonus

Negatah: say i have a 210 delay katana
Negatah: what would that be?
RenarudoTheRed: 60 delay = 1 second so. . . . . 240 would be 4 seconds. . .
RenarudoTheRed: not entirely sure

Negatah: so like say i have 2 daggers with 150 delay each
Negatah: = 300
Negatah: +dw4 so its something like 25% off
Negatah: so its 225 delay
Negatah: which is just under 4 seconds
Negatah: im not really sure how the dw% are

Someone explain this for me? I'm a noob when it comes to these matters, so I wasn't able to give him good answers.

[Armando]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

Hmm, wonder if this effected Bows and Guns any and how...

If anything, Bows and Guns would get MORE TP now, given that they're well over the 480 Delay mark.

Someone explain this for me? I'm a noob when it comes to these matters, so I wasn't able to give him good answers.

Any Delay below 184 would give 5 TP. Therefore, the faster you went under 184 Delay, the faster you'd get TP, since your TP-per-hit wasn't scaling down with your speed, creating an inflated TP rate. The patch removed the TP floor (or set it far lower, I don't know yet) so that your TP-per-hit will continue to scale down. This means low-delay Dual Weilders (THF, and to a bigger extenct, NIN) have lost the unintended benefit of better TP gain due to the way TP accumulation worked.

In addition, high-delay weapons used to actually take a TP penalty in the sense that they got less TP-per-time than fast weapons. A 240 Delay weapon got 6.4 TP per hit, while a 480 Delay weapon would only get 12. Also, at the 480 mark, TP used a formula that gave even less TP for each point of Delay. Now, high-delay weapons get normal TP or possibly even better TP gain (480 Delay weapons now gain 13-ish TP from what I've read.)

To sum it up, the old system gave advantages to those who could push their Delay below 180, while penalizing those that were in the 400+ range. The patch made TP gain a lot more linear, so that the Dual Weilders don't have a distinct TP advantage, and the two-hander users don't have a TP disadvantage even against non-dual weilded one-handed weapons in general. TP gain is now fair and relatively even, if you ignore artificial sources of TP.

[aegina]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

sounds like this will hurt my thief, but help my ranger...

[qaitakalnin]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

so is this the "fix" that SE was talking about to get people to sub more that /nin or do we think something else is down the line? I do think (having read this and hoping that it is accurate since i am a noob about such things) that this is an appropraite fix, means that the higher delay/higher dmg weapons should be more appealing since their ws output should be on par with dual wield....


Now the question is: Did i interpret the given information correctly?

[neighbortaru]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

not really. this TP adjustment doesn't seem to affect WAR/nin too badly as they don't hit the TP floor really.

What it does is correct the TP formula like Armando said so that really low delay weapons don't abuse it too much and really high TP delay weapons aren't shortchanged. For the rest of us in the middle, doesn't mean anything.

but it does seem WAR/thf with GA is more appealing now (though I can't say if it is more so than WAR/nin).

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

Looks to me like this particular fix was more target at situations where dual weild was prefered over "standard" weapons. The encouragment to avoid Utsusemi is likely to come still. And if it is decent enough, we might even see thf subbing something other than nin. Though I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

[Kittyneko]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

How will this hurt thief? because they have very low delay daggers? Great.. and there I just reached level 70. Guess I should find myself another job.

[Omni]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)



it doesnt hurt them like breaks the job....
its not really even hurting them that much, just makes the tp gain for all weapons more consistant.

i really doubt you'll notice the 1.5 extra hits you need to make up the loss of tp on your way to 100+ tp.

[Kittyneko]

Re: TP change (4/17/2006)

i really doubt you'll notice the 1.5 extra hits you need to make up the loss of tp on your way to 100+ tp.

After the all long explainations, finally one easy to understand :p.