Disappointed in DRG

[Beener]

I'm not a Dragoon or anything, but I am very disappointed for them

I made a PT with my LS members recently, and we needed a damage dealer for our 6th slot. I saw a DRG seeking, so I asked him, having heard that at 49 DRG get an awesome WS that had to be seen.

When the TP was ready, he unleashed Pentathrust....

....and hit the beetle for 6. No, not 6 hits. 6. 6 HP

Seriously, my Shining Blade does more damage. Hell, my Blaze Spikes hit for more.

Over the course of the PT, the highest he hit for was 213 (averaging around 120), which our WAR regularly outdoes with Sturmwind (and now RAMPAGE!!)

Must be hard on DRG, to go 48 levels hearing how kewl 49 will be to get....6 damage.

Some people say DRG can be better with 2 sniper rings, but really...you could just be a monk and deal better damage for less gil.

Fix DRG perhaps?

[locus]

6 damage penta thrust = 1 hit only. I have no idea what kind of toothpick only does 6 damage per hit, but I suspect it's more a problem of equipment than with the WS. Penta does a good 300-400 damage.

The problem with penta thrust is that Samurai gets it too, and it has a reputation for being abusive with Store TP (at higher levels of Store TP, you can get up to 60 tp back after a penta thrust)

I did use to think Dragoon was a hopeless job - it has too few useful high level traits and nobody, I mean NOBODY takes their "dragon killer/ancient circle" abilities seriously. They also specialize in saving their own skins with Jump, which isn't too helpful if you're trying to keep hate.

I've changed my mind slightly after playing a bit post 70+. In my opinion, dragoon just doesn't have a well-defined role in a party other than "front row member". What Square-Enix really should do is the following:

1) Stop the wyvern from despawning the instant you touch a chocobo or enter a town. It's stupid. If they want to do that, at least remove the 2 hour recharge.
2) On that note, Call Wyvern should really be thirty minutes to an hour instead of two hours. After the wyvern dies, Dragoon = less useful samurai/drk. Or just let them use pet/wyvern food to heal the thing already. Playing with a dragoon in your party automatically means no flies, no goblins, no crabs, no scorpions etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Still dragoon CAN do some nifty things, like sub white/red mage and spam dia for healing breath (not so impossible since the mp cost is low but the loss of a more useful combat sub really just plain hurts). Dragoon/Samurai can get a hideous amount of hate but do a crazy amount of damage too in a short time. (yes, ignore the fact that SAM/DRG would probably do better, but see, dragoons can Super jump to save their skins after penta thrust #4 or so)

[Carbon]

Sniper rings are useless as far as improving Penta Thrust accuracy.

Right now, I'm convinced that the only thing that can improve Penta Thrust accuracy is a Bard.

I've tried every other method, and none has worked so far. Other dragoons here seem to swear by having a bard in party too.

[fuz]

I have not met any melee that actually likes to go after beetles because of their ridiculous evasion up skill that reduces hits to maybe... 1 in 10? maybe worse...

Anyway, that's a really bad way to see penta work, because that's not what it's designed to be used against. After see it later on a crawler, you'll probably re-think your opinion.

[Weezingpipes]

I didn't use Penta Thrust fighting beetles for 2 reasons : evasion boost, and they do have pretty high DEF regardless. At that level still better off just skillchaining Distortion and pretending you don't have Penta Thrust, since what usually happens when you do Penta (assuming evasion boost isn't on it), most hits land for shit damage and cause it to evasion boost anyway. The only time Penta is decent in skillchains is ending Gravitation, otherwise only worth using betwen skillchains for free damage (assuming you can reliably land 4-5 hits). If you fight things with relatively low evasion, Penta can do ok damage, but if DEF is high enough the damage will still be low. The biggest problem really is many monsters are simply stronger vs piercing damage compared to monsters strong vs blunt damage (like...none) and slashing (don't think any resist slashing damage). DRG really seems to be a replacement ranger, ie ideally partnered with a THF, as the ws tend to reflect that. Otherwise DRG don't really excel fighting anything.

1) Stop the wyvern from despawning the instant you touch a chocobo or enter a town

You lose it when you get on chocobo, true, but if you walk into a town it will be there when you walk back out. Most DRG get used to it and learn to just walk places in advance or simply go without.

The biggest problem with DRG is their damage is gimped due to having the wyvern - the idea being wyvern balances their damage, when in fact thats totally stupid. First off the wyvern isn't invincible. It only lives vs like 30% of monsters under level 60 (AE's take it down fast enough). With the AF bp their survivability is improved, but they are almost constantly lowish health, meaning their breath damage is going to be atrocious (besides the fact the wyvern doesn't do the right breath most of the time anyway).

Carbon, I wouldn't say accuracy items are worthless. I was landing 4-5 hits on Tormentors in Rancor recently with a RDM in the party, but I didn't like to use Penta Thrust since I fully expected the hits to miss which I told my group that, and didn't wanna slow up the skillchaining. I wouldn't attribute the hits landing to it having Gravity, since it makes such a small difference. But as a general rule Skewer is usually better. Worst case its usually a reliable 300ish damage, occasionally 500's with Berserk or it a double attack goes off. I've even got 5 hit Skewers, and 1 6 hit (total flukes of course but nice when they happen).

Learn to love Skewer over 60. It renkei so much better than any other WS you get til the 225 and quest WS. From what I understand about Impulse Drive it does help DRG still be good damage dealers over 71, but the 65-71 levels are ugly. That and still relying on Wheeling Thrust for light (can use Impulse Drive for a 3 man light though so I am told) sucks. If Wheeling Thrust did damage comparable to Mistral Axe I would be at least content, or hell make it never miss and give no tp back to balance - basically a good damage version of Raiden Thrust. The outright misses get really annoying.

DRG has problems, it needs fixing. I think S-E will eventually, just waiting it out for now.

[Beener]

Fuz: sounds like you need a redmage or bard, dispel makes beetles easy

Helm beetles in CN was one of my favorite exp spots

[Kyoujin]

The problem with penta thrust is that Samurai gets it too, and it has a reputation for being abusive with Store TP (at higher levels of Store TP, you can get up to 60 tp back after a penta thrust)

Abusive on TW mobs: Yes. Abusive on XP mobs: No. Spear is a B-skill for samurai. My hit-rate with a A+ weapon and +28acc is atrocious. Penta-Thrust isn't worth dropping to a B over. Only a fool samurai would bring a spear to the grind and expect to hit half the time.

That said, a samurai with a Relic BP can gain 80% TP off a Penta on TW junk. Coupled with an AF modified meditate the samurai above could penta six or seven times in a row. Makes for one beastly farming machine.

[poweryoga]

samurais that use spear in lvl parties = yuck.

yukikaze > penta....

i see penta doing at most 400 damage on VT mobs.... Yukikaze does 300-400 on IT mobs.

so yes, i like gkatanas.

[Beener]

another thing, we WERE fighting crawlers, the rumblers that spawn behind the Helm, and he STILL was lame....

[Tohato]

Who was the DRG anyhoo?

[Omena]

Sounds like an equipment problem to me. A while ago I was in a party with two dragoons (the other one being me) and we were fighting beetles. The other drg was very very under equipped (except for his spear, Peregrine, which was the best one availible at that level) and he didn't use food. I was constantly hitting for 40-85, most of his hits were below 20.

Still, from what I've heard, drg really sucks at higher levels, and it has obvious problems even on low levels. The wyvern must be the biggest one. It seems like S-E wants it to die ASAP so you can continue without it.

[Hisdon]

what kills me is even when this is all said, people still invite DRGs over DRKs 40-59 =/

[Ainmer]

Vorpal Scythe is no where near Pentathrust thx.

[Jifan]

That is very much an equipment problem. I can do 300-400+ on IT mobs. I do also sometimes miss all on my Penta's. DRK's can do that with Guilliotine also.

Last night I hit a Robber crab for 6 damage on one Penta, I hit it once out of five hits. The crab did his defense buff right before I macro'd. Other times I hit the crabs all 5/6 times(have War sub), I did 300+ when I solo'd if my WS partner didnt have alot of TP. Berserk ups that to 350+.

You need to spend money to deal damage. Someone buy me a Scorpion's Harness ><

[Shiymmas]

Personally, I'd say the biggest problem with drg like other melee classes is expensive equipment and a lack of knowing how to use their abilities - even at higher levels.

I'm a bard, and though I'm not in a set party, I only level with my ninja friend. When we form parties, we always have set components to the party - bard, nin, whm/rdm, thf, rng/blm, and drg/mnk. Of course the melee we choose always has to have war sub for that initial provoke to set up fuidama to put hate on the ninja. Now usually we prefer a mnk because honestly their damage is just insane and can't usually be matched. However, the other night, we picked up a drg as there wasn't any mnks available. This drg was wearing sniper's rings, life belt, etc. and knew exactly how we wanted him to play without even asking. He'd provoke after the thf would pull, allow the thf to sneak/trick off the ninja, and then go on about play. The difference from most drgs however came with his use of jumps. Unlike most drgs who just spam their jumps after penta for extra TP or save their own ass if it got too nasty, this guy used his to help control hate, and turn the mob when needed for the usual distortion renkei with sneak+trick+viper. Of course turning the mob from our ninja tank, who wears two eris' earrings, and a mermaid ring can be quite difficult at times, even for a high dmg mnk, but this guy would simply jump, provoke, double-thrust for the skillchain, wait for the thf to put viper hate back on the ninja, then high or super jump depending on his timers to shed hate. His dmg was quite nice throughout the time we partied, and he never held up a renkei due to lack of TP from missing the mob. All in all I was quite impressed and would greatly prefer a drg from now on, granted they used their abilities appropriately and were well equipped like this guy. Also since he knew when and how to get the mob off himself, our downtime was basically nothing due to the fact that our whm never got below about 65-75% mp while keeping all melee hasted etc. and not having to spam cures on the drg while the mob beat on him for a few extra hits (which is usually the case w/mnk or lesser drgs).

Anyway, my advice for any drg looking for a role in a party is to learn your abilities, and forget penta. This guy didn't once use penta, yet his double-thrust dmg was quite nice, his TP gain was plenty fast, and his damage was pleasing. Most drgs we end up with merely solo-penta then spam jumps for TP while our ninja uses Blade: Chi for the distortion renkei which is far less painful for the mob with Chi's lower dmg and half the time they spam penta in the middle of the renkei which is incredibly annoying to see at my level. Much better to have the drg in the renkei while the nin sticks to Retsu for dmg and paralysis.