Pulling Politely (No, really...)

[Murphie]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

So, because he's saying BRD and COR are super awesome, and RDM is just average, but I'm saying that he's wrong, his opinion is right, but mine isn't?

What sort of logic is that?

[Spiritbear]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

As Mhurron already pointed out, BBQ compared three jobs, only two of which he actually understands. One he limited to only what a party wants from it, the other from what it can do when pushed to the limits of party play, and the other to some sort of crazy god-like job that doesn't even exist in this game. And you people have the audacity to say that there is no bias there?

So you say that you don't even know much about COR or BRD, but BBQ is totally right. How does that make any sense at all?

I said that BBQ is right in the fact that is his opinion and that I agree. I don't have to play the job to understand what it can and can't do I have seen Rdm solo shit that most jobs can't, I have been in the same party and rep a brd with Cor (and vice-versa) and seen the difference in exp change when they would switch out. It was always the same Cor always helped the exp jump up a bit. I have a habit of paying attention to what all the jobs in the party are doing so I have a good idea of what they can do so I know what I would like in the parties when I make my own.

Everything on this site is subject to opinion. Everytime someone ask about what job they should play, all the responses are based on the responders bias toward a certain job. I certainly would never suggest anyone lvl Brd but others might so anyone saying that BBQ being biased is a bad thing is just flat out ridiculous. BBQ gives valid opinions about Cor and if he gives opinions that you don't agree with then you tear him down and try to make his opinion count for nothing, when in fact his opinion could be the one thing that keeps someone playing FFXI rather then going to WoW or some other MMO. Just like anyone else on this site.

Everyone needs to stop tearing everyone else apart and just give there opinions about the OPs and carry-on. If you disagree with something then let your opinion be known and let it be if someone is going to change their opinion then it will happen when a valid point is given to them, not after several post of arguing.

[Murphie]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

I thought I explained everything very well. It's not my job to tell BBQ how to play RDM. I've tried to explain how he's wrong in the past with little result. He's far too hard-headed to concede a point, or to admit that he might not know what the hell he's talking about from time to time.

And Little Ninja, don't even get me started. You are the poster child for consistently misunderstanding and misconstruing information presented to you by other posters. You say the most ridiculous things, and then when you are called on it, you start talking about something else. Plus, most people can barely understand what you're saying because you are incapable of spelling above a third grade level. I haven't dodged any points with you. Saying otherwise is an outright lie.

As Mhurron already pointed out, BBQ compared three jobs, only two of which he actually understands. One he limited to only what a party wants from it, the other from what it can do when pushed to the limits of party play, and the other to some sort of crazy god-like job that doesn't even exist in this game. And you people have the audacity to say that there is no bias there?

Ridiculous.

BBQ was trying to answer the OP. He wanted info about Cor and Brd. BBQ just gave his opinon, biased or not it is his opinion. I think it is a valid opinion too. Not saying that Rdm couldn't do more in a party, but like you said that is what they are asked to do and usually end up doing. So, BBQ's opinion would be valid. I have partied alot with my Whm, Bst and Pld and would still rather a Cor in the party over a Brd or Rdm. Not saying that I don't party with the other two jobs, just that if all three were seeking I would choose Cor > Rdm > Brd in that order. So in my opinion Cor would be the best choice and BBQ would be correct.

I'm well aware of what an opinion is. But I'm allowed to call it biased if I want. That's MY opinion.

A BRD is asked to pull and do a bit of buffing. A COR is asked to do the same. How is that anything more than what a RDM is asked to do? We are asked to main heal, backup heal, enfeeble, remove status, buff the party, occasionally pull or off-tank, and generally keep the party going. A BRD or a COR isn't going to keep the party going. They are going to help the party do well when it is going, but neither can main heal, neither can enfeeble very much (beyond sleep and slow), neither can remove status (unless they sub WHM, and then good luck pulling). They can both buff the party and pull, but good luck off-tanking.

[Spiritbear]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

He compared a COR using and doing everything they can do to a RDM doing only what most parties ask them to do. A lot of parties would be fine with RDM doing nothing but refresh, that would fall into catagorizing a RDM in EXP as nothing but a backline mage, that doesn't mean that is a fair description of the job. (Not that bbq went that far, but they did compare a job doing everything it can to one that is expected to use only a part of what it was given).

Also, the final wrap up placing RDM as just some thowaway piece of gear, a BRD as good gear but COR is "OMGHOLYSHITTHATSAWESOME!" is what shows bbq's bias more then anything else in the thread.

BBQ was trying to answer the OP. He wanted info about Cor and Brd. BBQ just gave his opinon, biased or not it is his opinion. I think it is a valid opinion too. Not saying that Rdm couldn't do more in a party, but like you said that is what they are asked to do and usually end up doing. So, BBQ's opinion would be valid. I have partied alot with my Whm, Bst and Pld and would still rather a Cor in the party over a Brd or Rdm. Not saying that I don't party with the other two jobs, just that if all three were seeking I would choose Cor > Rdm > Brd in that order. So in my opinion Cor would be the best choice and BBQ would be correct.

[Mhurron]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

about BBQ, what he said is true.
Rdm's role may vary a lot.
Outside EXP party, Rdm can do many other things.
But.
In EXP party, Rdm is prefered as a full time mage.

He compared a COR using and doing everything they can do to a RDM doing only what most parties ask them to do. A lot of parties would be fine with RDM doing nothing but refresh, that would fall into catagorizing a RDM in EXP as nothing but a backline mage, that doesn't mean that is a fair description of the job. (Not that bbq went that far, but they did compare a job doing everything it can to one that is expected to use only a part of what it was given).

Also, the final wrap up placing RDM as just some thowaway piece of gear, a BRD as good gear but COR is "OMGHOLYSHITTHATSAWESOME!" is what shows bbq's bias more then anything else in the thread.

[little ninja]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

Feh, what the hell do I know? Clearly Murphie is able to spot the flaw in my post, but doesn't have to explain it to us.

They told me in a post a few weeks back that endgame was more busy now then it ever was, especially on my server. they then stated about several sites said this. When i asked him to post proof of this. I never saw them in the thread again.

Dont waste your time having them state their claim. It will be nothing nobody doesnt already know about. Then they will stop visiting the thread. That is unless they've already stopped.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

Leveling as if you were doing Steamed Sprouts is not the best way to handle a party. Having a Bard keep n amount of enemies asleep as you kill them off one by one will keep the bard from keeping the party buffed.

If anything he should have asked you to pull at around 15 or 10%, have the monster back before the current is dead, and have the bard sleep THAT one until you're ready for it.

That's the main problem with BRDs, they're invited to pull just as much as they're invited to buff, but I've noticed not all of them are disciplined at pulling.

Pulling for a PT is like camping an NM in some ways. Its a game of anticipation and trusting your assessment of your PTs kill-speed. Its also a matter of being able to look around and see that next pull while you attend to your current duty, be that buffing, cures, or DD in COR's case.

To pull and keep buffs up is knowing when to leave that fight and anticipate or know where the next mob will be. BRDs used to be able to do this, but since TP burn its fallen by the wayside. Hell, some BRDs don't even have a /WHM sub in the event they're not pulling. That's sad.

[DakAttack]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

Leveling as if you were doing Steamed Sprouts is not the best way to handle a party. Having a Bard keep n amount of enemies asleep as you kill them off one by one will keep the bard from keeping the party buffed.

If anything he should have asked you to pull at around 15 or 10%, have the monster back before the current is dead, and have the bard sleep THAT one until you're ready for it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

You know you could have actually responded with what OMG over looked.

Feh, what the hell do I know? Clearly Murphie is able to spot the flaw in my post, but doesn't have to explain it to us.

[little ninja]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

I dunno, there is some obvious bias there. BBQ has made clear his lack of understanding of how to play RDM correctly.

You expected fair and balanced?

You know you could have actually responded with what OMG over looked.

[Jei]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

because I couldn't sleep four mobs at once.
(Eiyoko) Um...why would I need to?
(person) lol thats how brd pulls
(Eiyoko) ...

/shrug

I don't wanna say this but.... that's how Brd pulls.
At higher level, mainly in TP burn parties, you kill mobs in even less than a minute. And when one dies, the next one will be slept ready to be slaughtered just right next to the group.
That's Brd.

About BBQ, what he said is true.
Rdm's role may vary a lot.
Outside EXP party, Rdm can do many other things.
But.
In EXP party, Rdm is prefered as a full time mage.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

I dunno, there is some obvious bias there. BBQ has made clear his lack of understanding of how to play RDM correctly.

Enlighten me, what did I miss? You want me to jot down the "jack of all trades" nonsense or say what RDM really does in a PT?

[Mhurron]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

I dunno, there is some obvious bias there. BBQ has made clear his lack of understanding of how to play RDM correctly.

You expected fair and balanced?

[Effedup]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

I was in a party with both a cor and a brd on friday night (brd is in my static) and no one in our pt expected the brd to pull, it was pretty much a given that the cor was puller. He obviously helped control links and aggro by sleeping those mobs, but we all preferred him to buff/backup heal (I know I did, as I was main heal) then worry about running off grabbing mobs. Also, cor has much better ranged attack and parrying skills, so it worked out better for me as whm.

I've of course heard that brd is a great puller at higher levels (not there myself yet), but in the dunes it seemed like a better setup to have cor pull. It's not like we really needed someone stacking mobs for us (no competition out there at the time), and I'm guessing that in the mid 30's in CN it's probably not too big of a deal yet either. If I'm wrong, correct me...I haven't partied with a COR but maybe a handful of times, and BRD even less (until now ^^) and I'm just going on logic as to that point.

Not only that, but like you said, it IS kinda greedy, especially when there are multiple parties going for those same mobs. As with all things, everything is so much better when everybody gets along...you never know when you might need to look outside the party for help with something.

[Murphie]

Re: Pulling Politely (No, really...)

I dunno, there is some obvious bias there. BBQ has made clear his lack of understanding of how to play RDM correctly.