Deliberate level capping

[Icemage]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Not to be rude, but I would just like to state that this comment is 100%, absolute bull. I have gotten FAR better exp at 10/20/30 then I have during any of my EXP pts in my 50s on both my jobs. Exp gain has nothing to do with a party's lvls, it's all based on two things.

1) The quality of the pt.

2) Camp location.

Agreed that party quality and correct camp location helps the XP curve a lot. However, kill speed at higher levels increases when looking at "average" parties, and with it comes better XP gains (not counting power levelling, which throws everything out the window).

The main reason for the impoved average XP/hour is recovery rates. Mages get better, more efficient spells and better ways to recover MP, and melees get access to increasingly better DPS weaponry. Yes, monsters also get stronger and beefier by level, but see my XP chain reasoning below.

Of course, you "can" get outstanding parties in most level ranges, but singular isolated cases of a 9K/hr party in Crawlers' Nest do not indicate that the average party will be able to do so. That's extremely anecdotal.

What's not anectodal is the realization that the XP chain timers get shorter as you rise in level, yet your typical decent party can still manage XP chain #5 no matter what level range you're looking at (and this is not even looking at burn parties, which skew things way off the curve past level 55). Since your average chain is completing faster, you are ergo making more XP on average as your level increases. It may seem otherwise because your TNL at lower levels is so much less, but if you plot out how much XP you're really gaining in an hour, you'd find this to be true.

Anyways, as for the original idea. It's more or less a 'meh-tastic' concept to me that would be more or less overlooked by the majority of the player base. Unless you had a good friend who was looking for a pt/member for a while at a lvl that you happen to have gear for this idea wouldn't help anyone. This would only be used to encourage static pts, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but would only hurt random pick up pts which you seem to have intended this to fix. And seeing as people who cap themselves wouldn't be able to gain any skills while they get exp, this would only *hurt* them in the long run. For statics and 'fun' missions, this would be great, but to help increase the usuable amount of people for a random pick up pt, this idea will not help.

It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than the status quo. There's no way to predict how the player base will react to such a change; do we really know how much of the level elitism is due to the enforced rule that you can't party with anyone not within 3 levels of you? I'm sure I don't know.

And if not this, then what? The situation in the low-mid levels is deteriorating - the more end-game activities that Square-Enix adds, the less reason there is for non-new players to level new jobs, and this trend continues to worsen daily as more players hit 75 on all the jobs they care to.


Icemage

[Ziero]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Also your TNL doesn't change when you're capped. So it would still take 10k-20k+ past lvl 50 to lvl where in the dunes it's only a few hundred to 1k exp per lvl.

[Mhurron]

Re: Deliberate level capping

I was thinking more along the lines of getting less exp but not needing as much to proceed to the next level. You know, like you were actually level 10. I have never seen anyone make 40-50 exp a day in the dunes.

Merits are not based on your tnl so your assertion that you would have people getting 4-5 merits a day in the dunes if they capped themselves would require the ability for a party in the dunes level to be able to do the equivalent of 40-50k exp in a day.

[Ziero]

Re: Deliberate level capping

I don't see why this would be horribly abusable - parties speed up at higher levels, not slow down.
Icemage

Not to be rude, but I would just like to state that this comment is 100%, absolute bull. I have gotten FAR better exp at 10/20/30 then I have during any of my EXP pts in my 50s on both my jobs. Exp gain has nothing to do with a party's lvls, it's all based on two things.

1) The quality of the pt. A good group with smart players, decent gear and a proper set up will rock no matter what the lvl. A good Sam/Drg/Thf/Blm team against flying mobs will tear them apart just as fast at higher lvls as they do at lower lvls.

2) Camp location. An empty camp with lots of mobs who repop fast of the appropriate lvls and weak to the pt set up is *GOLD* regardless of lvl. I was chaining T-VT crabs in Korro tunnel for 8-10k an hour with my mid 20 sam easy. I've gotten 9-10k an hour in an empty nest on my 40 nin no problem.

With those two things any party will fly through the lvls, any lvl, extremely fast. But with a bad pt set up, on mobs of the wrong lvl, in a crowded area, you get crap EXP. Hell it seems my exp has gotten worse the higher I've gotten as the only 6k+ an hour PT I've had was the one time I killed Lesser Colabri in an empty camp. But those mobs are so easy if you can't bust out at *least* 6k an hour on them you should just turn off the game and walk away.

In fact the whole point of many TaAU mobs were to die fast and pop back up again faster to help more higher lvls gain EXP and Merits. That's why most mobs there have 5 minute repops or less, where many non ToAU areas keep a constant 10-15 repop timer.

And the reason they are ignoring the old content is because they want people to do the new stuff. They said that repeatedly. And once all the new stuff is in and working they'll go over some of the old stuff and bring it up to date.

Also, many BCNMs already require very specific job set ups to win such as what was suggested as a good idea. Blm can't go into everything and walk out on top and there are some mobs a nin wouldn't even think of touching. And ENMs and Assaults only add to the list of those special fights that need special jobs. Though I can see why it would be nice to have a more specific set of fights for XX jobs and such.

Anyways, as for the original idea. It's more or less a 'meh-tastic' concept to me that would be more or less overlooked by the majority of the player base. Unless you had a good friend who was looking for a pt/member for a while at a lvl that you happen to have gear for this idea wouldn't help anyone. This would only be used to encourage static pts, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but would only hurt random pick up pts which you seem to have intended this to fix. And seeing as people who cap themselves wouldn't be able to gain any skills while they get exp, this would only *hurt* them in the long run. For statics and 'fun' missions, this would be great, but to help increase the usuable amount of people for a random pick up pt, this idea will not help.

[Celeal]

Re: Deliberate level capping

If the goal of deliberate level cap is to help low levels to form party (due to lack of low level LFG), how about boosting the exp gain for duo, trio, 4 ppl or 5 ppl party setup? For example, give a boost to trio party exp. gain from T mob, so that its exp. gain would be the same as standard six players party with IT mob?

[seq]

Re: Deliberate level capping

if you need caped EXP PT, CoP areas are the way to go.
Caping EXP PTs like the way u suggested will make melee unskilled, mages unskilled
and ppl will be raging into skill up parties like idiots.

[DanteWolfWood]

Re: Deliberate level capping

well, the armor would not be necessary(sp?) to do it. its just an option for those who dont have the gear nor the gil for it (or they are lazy)

if you have the most exceptional gear for that lvl, then by all means; use it.

[Lmnop]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Just because SE seems to suck at balance doesn't they shouldn't try to be good at it. For two expansions SE has taken their time to add in either useless or same tier armor for level 75, then bam, out of nowhere, they add Salvage gear. Let's hope they can change for the better. I don't understand your reference at all to be honest... why does Conquest have to remain bad again?

I'm not sure if you're directing that at me or not. If so, I just mean that I don't like caps in multiples of 10. I can't use level 31 equipment if I'm level 30.

In regards to Conquest, I agree that it needs boosted. I would love it if some day, people actually cared about EFs. But they've been in the game longer than I have, and they still suck. I agree very much on your take, Poet Fish. However, I'm not getting my hopes up. I stated how I feel S-E thinks. Not that I like it.

Dante, that's an interesting idea but it would totally kill my desire to have this function. I want to play with sam/drg level 26 to see it's optimum potential. Can't do that with generic gear.

Also forgot to mention: I would make it so you couldn't cap at a level below 10, 15, or even 20. I'd want to be able to go as low as 20 though. Though really, the only really exploiting levels would be 1-6, so even 10 would be ok.

[DanteWolfWood]

Re: Deliberate level capping

I posted this thread at forums.eyesonff.com to see what they think of this idea (the FFXI section anyway) and I came up with this idea. It should solve the whole "Gear" problem that would come with capping levels

"ya, that was the only thing that was wrong...but I have a suggestion. Make it an armor that caps you (well, maybe let it be a ring or something that caps you) and have a whole armor set available to you.

Now, the neat thing about it; make it where you can switch around the stats and only allow a certain number of stats in each portion of the stats (IE Def, Atk, MP, etc.) This would allow customization for specific places and specific levels

now, the numbers will be low enough where they are not as useful as normal armor you can purchase; but still useful nonetheless.

Also, the higher the capped lvl, the more stats allowed to be "upped"

it would take alot of work and if done right; the armor might not be NEAR as useful as the weakest armor at that lvl, but hey; it would solve the armor thing.

(also; make it job specific as well. Example: PLD would be allowed more def/VIT than others and mages could be allowed more MP or MND/INT)

what do ya think?"

now the key is that this armor, no matter how you set up the points, is mediocre to the gear available at that level, but still useful

What do ya think?

heres the link to the thread (not as busting with people like here): http://www.forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?p=2042345

[DrivenTooFar]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Hahahaha. When was the last time you saw a party in the dunes get 40-50k exp a day?

I was thinking more along the lines of getting less exp but not needing as much to proceed to the next level. You know, like you were actually level 10. I have never seen anyone make 40-50 exp a day in the dunes.

[DanteWolfWood]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Continuing where Icemage was...

I dont see the problem with this idea of giving a penalty for helping a player...If someone is struggling with a monster; they can always call for help; thats what it is meant for. (agreeing with Icemage)

But some people would say thats too difficult (retard :p) well, heres an idea.

Now, I think a good Idea would be when someone walks by and sees someone getting their Arse handed to him; click on them and have a option called "Help" if not in the player's party.

Then something would come up to the player that says "accept help?" Once they hit yes; then by all means; heal away. BUT, just like call for help; no one gets any XP at all. Now, if they say no, your not allowed to heal them, kinda as if /blockaid came on after they inputed no....

thats my Idea, call me smart, stupid, retarded; whatever, atleast I tried :p

Also, about the capping thing. something that could help about abuse is only allow 1-2 (maybe 3) higher lvl "caps" in a party...may stop people from leaving out other players say of a lower rank. Something to that sort. Or maybe give some kind of Penalty for having too many capped players in the party, making players seek non-capped players first; and then maybe Capped players. Make some kind of penalty for using too many capped players for Missions/Quest/AF as well.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Just because SE seems to suck at balance doesn't they shouldn't try to be good at it. For two expansions SE has taken their time to add in either useless or same tier armor for level 75, then bam, out of nowhere, they add Salvage gear. Let's hope they can change for the better. I don't understand your reference at all to be honest... why does Conquest have to remain bad again?

[Kafeen]

Re: Deliberate level capping

The starter grounds would be packed with entire servers capped to level 1.

[Mhurron]

Re: Deliberate level capping

My thought on this is that maybe they should only let level 75 cap their levels and any expierience would go towards merits. Of course, their would have to be some kind of penalty on the exp or else everyone would be out in the dunes getting 4-5 merits a day

Hahahaha. When was the last time you saw a party in the dunes get 40-50k exp a day?

[Lmnop]

Re: Deliberate level capping

Oh and in addition, making things like Expeditionary Forces, and perhaps Garrison, reward good exp would also be able to break down some level barriers. Oh, and yeah, people would give a fuck about Conquest after ToAU.

I've pretty well come to the conclusion that S-E's take on the situation is that they want as many people doing Aht Urgan as possible. There is no reason to fix something old when you can statistically brighten more people's day by adding new things. I'm also starting to think they behave this way in regards to basic game balance. I'm never more interested in the game than I am when I see job changes, giving me the opportunity to think critically about the possibilities of whatever's been added. Zorg's take on life: by destroying something (or in this case, purposely leaving flaws), you create infinite possibilites for others to thrive. Go watch Fifth Element.

The problem I have with all the set caps: you never get to experience level 31, where Twicer War/thf would be incredible. You lose your chance to see just how incredible O kote is right at it's prime level (as opposed to purchasing them in your 50s when you finally have the cash). The gear stuff, in addition to playing with job combos I never got to see in their prime, is why I would want a feature like this. I wanna do war/rng 30 with Holy Bolts/debuff Bolts, is that so bad?

But yeah, under my idear, you'd have to be 75 in whatever job you want capped. This would suck in that it'd further increase everyone to rush to 75, since they can always return to that level, but it'd at least encourage people to go ahead and pick up some of those rare/ex weapons they didn't have the time for before (I skipped Shwarz Axt in the 50s because I knew it wasn't worth it once I got over 60ish on my WAR, for instance).