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Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

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  • Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

    Title says it all really, could SE make merited Job Traits usable when that job is subbed?

    Most of these job traits affect an ability in the lvl 35ish range, so you will probably not be seeing their effects until lvl 70+. If SE wanted to, they could make it so that you had to be lvl 75 before you could use these traits.

    Next, most of the jobs that gain the cool spiffy traits could either actually make a decent subjob, or are the currently used subjobs for alot of jobs.

    List of most useful meritable job traits:

    Warrior:

    Savagery, Adds TP Bonus effect to Warcry

    Monk:

    Invigorate, Adds a Regen effect when using Chakra
    Penance, Adds an effect to Chi Blast that inhibits an enemy's TP accumulation

    Thief:

    Aura Steal, Adds a Dispel effect to Steal. Occasionally absorbs dispelled effect
    Ambush, Grants an accuracy bonus to melee and ranged attacks from behind an enemy

    Dark Knight:

    Desperate Blows, Reduces delay for two-handed weapons when using Last Resort by 5% per merit
    Muted Soul, Reduces enmity while using Souleater by 10 per merit

    Ranger:

    Recycle, Occasionally allows ranged attacks without consuming amunition
    Snapshot, Reduces delay for ranged attacks

    Samurai:

    Ikishoten, Increases amount of TP gained with a Zanshin attack
    Overwhelm, Grants a damage bonus with weapon skills perfomed face-to-face with an enemy

    Now the basic idea would be the same, you need the job at level 75 in order to merit it. So for instance if I had a lvl 75 drg and sam, I could merit Overwhelm, and have that ability as drg/sam.

    I think this could open up some interesting possiblities for job combinations later on, especially for Thief and maybe Dark Knight subjobs. You will also have to choise, merit your main job's abilities or merit your subjob's abilities. You still only get to upgrade 6 times for the group II merits.


    You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

    I don't have a big ego, it just has a large mouth.

  • #2
    Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

    This doesn't work.

    Most of these job traits affect an ability in the lvl 35ish range
    But not all do.

    Example:

    Penance, Adds an effect to Chi Blast that inhibits an enemy's TP accumulation
    A player needs to be level 82 to get Chi Blast with a subjob.
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    Entry 32: Death to Castro

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    • #3
      Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

      I'd rather they find a way to make Category 1 merits available and even then that's a bit rediuclous in terms of power.
      sigpic


      "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

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      • #4
        Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

        Hmm, I don't know. Wouldn't that make some players at low level way too overpowered, compared to new players? Maybe it could've worked out in a nice way, but it would have to be thought about before they implented it in the game, I think.

        In wilderness is the preservation of the world.

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        • #5
          Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

          Wouldn't that make some players at low level way too overpowered, compared to new players?
          I could be wrong, but I don't really think so. Since these are all intended for subjob use that is what I'm looking at here.

          Savagery becomes available at lvl 70

          Invigorate becomes available at lvl 70

          Aura Steal becomes available at lvl 10

          Ambush becomes available at lvl 1

          Desperate Blows becomes available at lvl 30

          Muted Soul becomes available at lvl 60

          Recycle and Snapshot become available at lvl 1

          Ikishoten becomes available at lvl 40

          Overwhelm is available at lvl 3 or so

          Now then, Each merit to Overwhelm increases WS damage by 5%, a max of 3 upgrades.

          Each merit to Ambush increases acc/racc by +3, max of 3 upgrades.

          How many exp mobs use really usefull buff moves that would be really good to use Aura Steal on? I can't think of many, mostly Crabs and Pugils I suppose.

          I would expect these to be the main low-mid level benefits of this idea, I really don't think that this would make players who had a merited lvl 75 job overpowered when they went to level a new job.


          You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

          I don't have a big ego, it just has a large mouth.

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          • #6
            Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

            Originally posted by Vyuru View Post
            How many exp mobs use really usefull buff moves that would be really good to use Aura Steal on? I can't think of many, mostly Crabs and Pugils I suppose.
            Oh I just thought of how useful this would be in party areas such as Kuftal Tunnel, you wouldn't need a Red Mage as much for Dispel!

            I see your point, but still am not convinced entirely. I don't have much left to say though, I think if Square Enix wanted to create it like that, they would have done so already. The idea does sound nice.

            Originally posted by Vyuru View Post
            Now then, Each merit to Overwhelm increases WS damage by 5%, a max of 3 upgrades.
            So a 500 damage weapon skill would do 25 damage extra. That isn't so much. And you don't get a 500 damage weapon skill quite often at low levels do you? Another interesting point it is.
            But if you look at it from a new player's(Up to level 65) side, there isn't much competion left for them. High level players on a new job tend to have much better equipment, too.

            In wilderness is the preservation of the world.

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            • #7
              Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

              Double post accident, sorry!

              In wilderness is the preservation of the world.

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              • #8
                Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                How many exp mobs use really usefull buff moves that would be really good to use Aura Steal on? I can't think of many, mostly Crabs and Pugils I suppose.
                Crawlers, Crabs, Beetles, and I'm not even thinking so hard.


                The idea is broken. Chi Blast is level 41 and what... you think Warrior Charge given from a sub-job is balanced? You have to include the JAs too, they are in the same group. Oh I bet those RDM will love Burst II! Chainspell goooo.
                Read my blog.
                ffxibrp.livejournal.com
                Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
                Entry 32: Death to Castro

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                • #9
                  Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                  Originally posted by Legal Fish View Post
                  Crawlers, Crabs, Beetles, and I'm not even thinking so hard.


                  The idea is broken. Chi Blast is level 41 and what... you think Warrior Charge given from a sub-job is balanced? You have to include the JAs too, they are in the same group. Oh I bet those RDM will love Burst II! Chainspell goooo.
                  I agree that this is a bad idea. Certain jobs are left behind enough even at 75. Making the already popular jobs even stronger won't help this problem at all.
                  Originally posted by Ellipses
                  Really, it's just like pretty much every question about this game that begins with "Why." The answer is "Because."
                  Originally posted by MCLV
                  A subjob is like sex, you shouldn't have it untill your 18 but if you don't have it after 21 everyone laughs at you.
                  More Sig:

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                  • #10
                    Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                    I don't think *any* JSE merit should be available to any other job besides the one it's specifically meant for. These abilities are supposed to help bring more variation to the jobs at endgame, which is why many of them are highly unique abilities. What they need to do is add more (useful) JSE merit abilities to *all* jobs, to be fair, while allowing another step towards actual unique character builds.
                    "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                    • #11
                      Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                      Originally posted by Legal Fish View Post
                      You have to include the JAs too, they are in the same group. Oh I bet those RDM will love Burst II! Chainspell goooo.

                      The op said the Job Abilities not spells... or hell drg/rdm phalanx II for the win
                      [FFXI Journal][Pld][War][Nin][Drg][Rng][Brd]



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                      • #12
                        Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                        Originally posted by Ziero View Post
                        I don't think *any* JSE merit should be available to any other job besides the one it's specifically meant for. These abilities are supposed to help bring more variation to the jobs at endgame, which is why many of them are highly unique abilities. What they need to do is add more (useful) JSE merit abilities to *all* jobs, to be fair, while allowing another step towards actual unique character builds.

                        Right, RDM with Chainspell and all six Ancient Magic II spells. Not broken at all. Or hey! A /SMN is able to use lvl 75 Bloodpacts!

                        Let's not even forget the system is even more broken because of Empathy which requires a wyvern which all people lack.


                        You have to include spells/abilities with the traits, they are in the same group.
                        Read my blog.
                        ffxibrp.livejournal.com
                        Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
                        Entry 32: Death to Castro

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                          ....methinks you quoted the wrong quote?
                          "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                          • #14
                            Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                            Originally posted by Legal Fish View Post
                            You have to include spells/abilities with the traits, they are in the same group.

                            That's good and all, but what you (and quite a few other posters in this thread) are missing is the point of the OP: the call was for the G2 Job *TRAITS* only, nothing else (no Job *ABILITIES*, nor *SPELLS*). AM II, Warrior's Charge, Debuffs II, none of that was included, nor is it a part of what is being asked for.

                            To further relieve confusion, let's also cut out G2 Job Traits that require job specific abilities and/or traits, and other circumstances that only exist at levels 38 and above.

                            Using the above filters, the *ONLY* merits that are a part of the OP's discussion are:

                            Savagery
                            Invigorate
                            Aura Steal
                            Ambush
                            Beast Healer
                            Desperate Blows
                            Muted Soul
                            Ninja Tool Expertise
                            Guardian
                            Recycle
                            Snapshot
                            Ikishoten
                            Overwhelm

                            The above traits were the *ONLY* things the OP asked for, not JAs, not Spells, not G1.

                            That being said...

                            Those are the only traits that would work with the proposed addition. Any other traits not listed do not work because they either required JAs that are job specific (eg Empathy and Strafe), required job specific equipment (eg Beast Affinity), or required JAs that are above 37 (eg Iron Will and Penance). Not all jobs would get all meritable traits added, and not all jobs would even be included (all the current "XYZ Mage" jobs, Summoner, Ninja's San line, etc), so this would tend to exclude some jobs from popular (read: not always sensible) opinion in terms of "acceptable" subjobs as far as this topic is concerned (people will still continue to /NIN to [insert random job here], it's just that they'll be happier because their Shihei isn't getting eaten up as fast as before).

                            The topic has merit (no pun intended), but the implementation is a little skewed. The easy way to fix this is to either do the standard SE subjob fix and to lower the efficacy of said traits when subed (like most current JTs are), or do this: add a new Group 3 set of merits whose design and purpose is to be used exclusively for subjobs (i.e. they only become active when the job is used as a sub). That way, the job as a main remains unchanged, but when it undergoes the transformation from main to sub, it begins to behave differently (either by a bit or a lot, depending on the trait), yet still maintains its unique flavor.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Could SE make Merited Job Traits available for subjobs?

                              I'm just going to use RNG as the example of what's flawed about this idea.
                              Rapid Shot is a trait that activates based on a precentage rate.

                              Snap Shot is a constant-effect haste trait for ranged weapons.

                              They're not the same thing, so these two don't stack. Rapid shot would be unaffected by Snapshot merits. Rapid shot would be the same as ever.

                              I think merit traits and abilities are meant to be exclusives for each respective job. We've already seen the damage /THF does to THF in the long term, I'd rather not see that get extended to other jobs.

                              I should also add that COR already has Rapid Shot, they have the fastest gun in the game (Peacemaker) and Quick Draw is one of thier signature moves. They have no problem cranking out quick shots if that's what the situation calls for. And SAM/RNG is already incredibly powerful, I don't think SAM needs more, faster ways to gain TP.

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