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  • #76
    Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

    Originally posted by Grizzlebeard View Post
    What kind of topsy turvy logic is that? I typically kill colibri in 10 seconds while using Cor Roll and will completely decimate any exp you'll get on skoffin even tossing the odd wivre bridging kill in. You're honestly trying to say that the extra 20 seconds would be wasted anyway if there were mobs still available to be killed?
    There's a reason there's only one single area in the entire game that can support the super max chain, tippy top 30+ exp per hour TP burn party. If you kill too fast you'll run out of mobs to pull, which is why this can only happen when no other parties are in the area. It's why people have to kill Wivres and Wyverns to keep chains. If you kill too slow you miss the window and lose the chain, if you kill too fast (and it is possible) you clear the area and lose the chain. So no, that extra 20 seconds doesn't really matter all too much.

    Last I counted there were two one shot moves a wyvern possesses and they're both more than capable of dropping a person in 30 seconds.
    It's more like one move, and they'll at most use it once before they're killed.

    Dispelling Wind removes two beneficial effects including food. In 30 seconds it's more than possible for a wyvern to pop it off twice which means unless your healer is doing shuttle runs back and forth each pull you won't always have Pro/Shell up to absorb the effect.
    Dispelling Wind doesn't remove food unless it was changed in the last update or something. Very few dispel moves actually do remove food, which is what makes Morsel Grab so special. Also, your mobs use two WS in less then 30 seconds? Are you all DWing Merc Krises and Kclubs or something?

    You also conveniently glossed over the fact Dread Shriek is an absolute cunt of a debuff and when coupled with all the other shit wyverns can toss out it puts a considerable burden on your healer's MP compared to a colibri. Lets also not forget the impact Wind Wall can have on killing speed if you don't have a dispeller in the party.
    Err, Whm and Sch can heal the entire party of Paralysis in one casting and Wind Wall has a minor effect if your party is already capped out on Acc against Colibri (who are naturally more evasive then Wyverns iirc)

    Look, I appreciate you backed yourself into a corner here trying to argue that wyverns are decent exp mobs but now's the time to graciously walk away.
    Except they are when you're not scared of things that aren't little pink birds. I was ripping through them when I was level 74 in a TP burn party at the Mamool camp between killing Puks(who can also use Evasion and Blink moves) and Mamools (who have their own myriad of buffs and dangerous attacks). It wasn't 30k an hour, but it was still decent Exp. And the Mamool camp is one of the more popular leveling areas despite being filled with Wyverns. Which is the point you seem to be ignoring, people kill Wyverns in EXP parties.

    Once again, all you care about is the absolute max exp per hour(well, second best), but I'm talking about the current average, good, reliable, decent exp. Unless SE adds nothing but tiny pink birds 75+ to level on, this is the kind of exp you will have to go after once the cap increases. Because even level sync won't let you kill Colibiri for long at 75. It's nice you have constant access to perfect set ups and empty camps at all times, but the exception does not make the rule. The vast majority of the playerbase often times has to go to other camps(shocking, I know!) and use less then optimal set-ups, but can still pull out 10-20k an hour. And chances are, once the cap is boosted, we'll be seeing more of these types of parties unless the new mobs SE adds are pathetically weak, have fast repops and are all over the place, or SE decides (and I hope they do) to overhaul the entire leveling system to make the climb to 99 easier on everyone.
    "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

      BTW, great meripos on birds don't need a whm OR a rdm, only 3 drg/whm + dd, brd + brd or cor, wyverns do ALL the healing, works awesome...parser showed 28-32k/hour consistently!
      ***************************************
      | 90 SMN | 90 BRD | 90 BLM | 90 THF | 90 WAR |
      ***************************************

      5/5 BST +2
      2/5 WAR +2
      Farsha(85)

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

        Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
        How many times have you merited in the Jade Sepulcher camp? I've used that camp with both single healer in the back line, and with healer + either BRD/WHM or COR/WHM, and I can tell you the additional /WHM makes a huge difference.
        ...1,273 times I have merited in Jade sepulcher... oh wait. I HAVE NO IDEA. I do have a maat's cap though, and only 4 jobs that aren't 75.... so dunno what that avg's out too. I would rather have a cor/dd output another 1000 dmg a mob (and yeah it probably avgs out to that, if they WS once a mob, which is completely realistic with a joyeuse) than have them /whm and drop a 300HP cure on a character who has yellow HP...when the RDM can drop a Regen on them and accopmlish near the same thing.

        I don't think relying on DNC is a good idea when it comes to Skoffin, based on DNC's position while fighting--in range of AoE.
        Closed position is nice, who wouldnt' want +15 acc, but if your at JS camp, your probably eating pizza or sushi, and your gonna have 90%+ acc either way. 5-10% haste is gonna cause all your DD's to be pumping out WS's so quickly that Scoffins are gonna get maybe 2 TP moves off.



        While you're at it, why not just take out the RDM and add a SMN--can Hastega and use remaining MP to do MORE DAMAGE! Just let the DNC handle all the cures!
        Really...? You sound mad?

        Seriously, though, what are the odds that the DNC will be able to get off an Healing Waltz to remove Paralyze while under the (very potent) paralyze effect of Dream Shriek? After he gets his own Paralyze off, the recast is another 15 seconds before he can get another person's paralyze off. (If someone is dying, good luck getting Provoke or Curing Waltz out while paralyzed.)
        Define "Very Potent" 80% of the time your going to proc a paralyze on action? 50%? I honestly have never had a problem with this affecting the party enough that I'm even worried about it.
        You would rather have your cor/whm sitting back and, I assume, Ranged attacking, and uring/enhancing the party, rather than dealing dmg and enhancing the party?
        I mean, what's recast on paralyna? 3 seconds? in 15 seconds everyone in the party that got hit with Dream shriek should be un-paralyzed. I mean....you do still have a rdm/whm right?

        Also, Radiant Breath is two debuffs at once (silence and slow II)--how fast can a DNC help out with that 15 (very long) second recast on Healing Waltz? Worse is when it hits more than one person. I like DNCs, but this is not the camp for them.
        I completely disagree, I think this is the camp that see's the most benifet of having a dancer in your party. Along with dropping 800-1200 dmg Dancing Edges, they can also erase someone every 15 seconds, 10% to everyone, and lower Defense, acc, and magic evasion, all of which stack with Dia and other De-buffs.

        If you want use Skoffin for exp, you want the ability to remove multiple paralyze at once from the back line. The same goes for Silena and Erase.
        You are leaning way towards the defensive side of the merit parties. I'd rather catch a death and a raise one and be meriting again in 6 minutes, at full speed than have the Defensive measures in place to prevent the death, but 9/10 times, those defensive measures, go to waste.
        Do you see what i'm saying? It's like insurance, yeah i'm glad I have geico incase I get in an accident, but I haven't gotten in an accident in 16 months...but my ass is still paying 200 bucks a month for my vehicles. -.- Do I speed in real life, nah, I don't want to have an accident, because the results of it are expensive, time consuming and tedious. Do I speed in my merit parties, hell yeah, cause If I crash there, the results aren't expensive, they don't cost to much time, and 5 minutes of waiting on weakness allows me to go make a peanutbutter sandwich....and I fucking will kill a man over a peanutbutter sandwich.

        While the ever unreliable Seigan/Third Eye may or may not absorb Fang Rush or Rushing Drub/Stab/Slash, it is completely useless for Firespit and single target spells. Pretty much every DD should be /NIN here, unless it's a NIN.
        Again, insurance that may or may not get used. I don't mind risking 2k and 7 minutes of down time, to increase my hourly output by 3-5k/hr. And subbing /nin is the same thing. Seigan isn't unreliable, the people using seigan are unreliable. Too many NA's are after that oh so eliete Weapon skill damage that makes everyone go "holy shit", and I'm NA, I love that shit, but i'd rather you do 500 less dmg and have me not have to cure bomb you for 30 seconds while you get the shit beat out of you. Seign/3rd eye should be all you ever need at either camp, aslong as your not jumping on hasso every chance you get.

        By the way, Curaga and Divine Waltz? They suck for us BRDs using the Minstrel Ring; I want to stab the healers every time they cast that while I'm in range.
        If your bard dosen't have a maxHP down gear set to macro in to activate his/her latent he/she probably dosen't have a 600k minstrel ring anyway. Just saying, if your droping almost a mil on a single piece of gear, your probably serious about bard, and hopefully you've gotten a couple pieces of zenith, maybe a serket ring, or ether to activate your latent without outside assitance.

        * * *

        but, whatever. Come June, COR/WHM will the be new standard, thanks to Haste. (Maybe. lol.)
        Now this ...is a serious thing to ponder, which makes me happy, because there are so many new job combos about to open up with the addition of 5 more levels let alone 19 more!! ^^

        When you already have a BRD and a DNC, why bother with a cure-bot/haste-bot RDM when the COR/WHM can do the job? After all, we're not looking to RDM to debuff anything anymore besides Dispel, and a COR can do that!
        See im my ideal setup, RDM is the only insurance. It's to self efficent a job to pass up when it comes to seting up a party of efficent jobs.

        What about Dia III? Well, so what's so special about it? Pffft. Hi to you, Dia II + Light Shot!
        This is doable, heck you could do this now, and save a shit ton of MP over the course of an hour, at the cost of 3k worth of light cards. along with dancers Box Step, that's a huge chunk of defense that's just gone, with minimal effort.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

          lol @ derailed threads
          Joined FFXI September 15th, 2009 | PlayStation 2/3
          Retired July 8th, 2010.
          Current Server: Unicorn
          Current Home Nation: San d'Oria (Rank 10)
          Race/Sex: Hume/(Fe)male
          Current Jobs: 80BRD, 75NIN, 59DNC, 51WHM, 43WAR, 38BLM, 38DRK

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

            Originally posted by Chromemage View Post
            lol @ derailed threads
            What? I don't remember posting in here.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

              Originally posted by Grizzlebeard View Post
              As for the JP comment, all I can say is NA's on Ifrit must truly suck.
              QFT.
              Originally posted by Armando
              No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
              Originally posted by Armando
              Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
              Originally posted by Taskmage
              GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

              REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

              GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

              THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
              Originally posted by Taskmage
              However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
              Matthew 16:15

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                Originally posted by Chromemage View Post
                lol @ derailed threads
                Is it off topic, or does it have to do with theorized party dynamics AFTERTHENEXTUPDATE..... just saying ...

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                  Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
                  QFT.
                  Well, I wouldn't know how other World's NA merit parties compare to Ifrit's NA merit parties, having never been to anywhere else.

                  Then again, neither would you. lol.

                  Are you Lv.75, yet? Done a merit party? Get there, get a few parses with different setups, and then you can really chime in to talk about what's the 'truth'. (Don't wait too long; Lv.80 cap is coming soon, and all that knowledge about Lv.75 meriting would become pretty useless soon. lol.)


                  Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                  Really...? You sound mad?
                  I was following the logic of "more damage" that some of you folks seem to love so much. If more than one back line sources of cure is too much, why stop at removing one /WHM? Why not get a Haste person who can also do more damage?

                  Why worry about DNC not able to cure enough when you can do more damage to kill faster, if you believe the "more damage = more exp/hr" mantra that you and Grizzlebeard both advocating.


                  Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                  I mean, what's recast on paralyna? 3 seconds? in 15 seconds everyone in the party that got hit with Dream shriek should be un-paralyzed. I mean....you do still have a rdm/whm right?
                  It's about the odds. Where there is only one person with (reliable) Paralyna, and he's not mid cast or resting, and he guesses correctly who is under most danger and casts Paralyna on that person, it's fine. However, if any of those conditions are not met--and over the course of a merit party, any RDM/WHM will find himself without one of those condition--then, possible danger.

                  Two back line players with Paralyna cuts the threat of Dread Shriek by more than half, IMO.

                  Two sources of cures means that the main healer (the person with Cure IV or V) is less likely to run out MP when links and other bad things happen. (ex: My last Jade Sepulcher party started off with a -ga III that everyone missed on the very first monster. A RDM who just spend a ton of MP on Protect/Shell IV and Haste the front line would have to immediately dip into Convert if had it been a single cure source set up.)

                  IMO the DNC is the best for that role, but at any camp other than Jade Sepulcher. I like COR/DNC as well, but JP CORs only want /WHM, and NA CORs here seem to only like /NIN. *shrug*


                  Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                  You are leaning way towards the defensive side of the merit parties. I'd rather catch a death and a raise one and be meriting again in 6 minutes, at full speed than have the Defensive measures in place to prevent the death, but 9/10 times, those defensive measures, go to waste.
                  It's true, I do prefer to have more curing power and damage mitigation than is typically needed, for the sake of atypical times. Trading a potential 3~5k exp/hr for more reassurances that the party will not go down on a bad pull or a Skoffin is not a bad deal.

                  And, it's the potential instead of the actual exp/hr we're talking about; a single weakened DD will already gimp a party's output as well as put more danger on the remaining DDs.

                  I also don't like to shove all that work at a single RDM/WHM or WHM/SCH. I've been there as the single-healer RDM, and I find it a distasteful task, especially when the front line are uncooperative about damage mitigation. It's so much easier when there's a second cure source who can keep people upright while I catch 2-3 ticks of hMP.


                  Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                  If your bard dosen't have a maxHP down gear set to macro in to activate his/her latent he/she probably dosen't have a 600k minstrel ring anyway.
                  Takes five macro presses for me to go HP down and gear up back to normal for the next pull when I'm cured to white. I can't fit the HP adjustment macros on the main pallet, either, so I have to change pallet twice for that sequence. So, yeah, I complain when healers keep spamming Curaga.

                  No, I don't use Windower. I expect the healers to have clues and pay enough attention, instead.


                  * * *

                  Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                  This is doable, heck you could do this now, and save a shit ton of MP over the course of an hour, at the cost of 3k worth of light cards.
                  Of course you can do that now, and know that because I've seen it done--by JP COR/WHM.
                  Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                  yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                  Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                  leaving no trace in the water.

                  - Mugaku

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                    Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                    I like COR/DNC as well, but JP CORs only want /WHM, and NA CORs here seem to only like /NIN. *shrug*
                    If you ask them, they may actually be more willing to sub a different sub. I've seen Cor/Rng deal some pretty insaine damage in a few seconds. Monster at like 1/4 life Barrage+Slugshot = instant death. They even get ACC boosts so they can wield a Joyese and a shield if they wish to help increase TP gain, and a slight chance to block an attack aimed at them. If they are smart about enmity, then they can use /rng, or even /dnc if the party can make use of it more.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                      Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                      Then again, neither would you. lol.
                      I believe you missed the point of the post. You routinely and rather unfairly portray NA players as the bane of organization and JP players as the paragons of proper party play, only occasionally spitting out a token story of something impressive a North American player accomplished, or, very rarely, something that a Japanese player did that you viewed as wrong. The absurd discrepancies between the statements of your own experiences and the experiences of everybody else on this dang site leads to one of two conclusions: 1) you have an uncanny bias towards the Japanese playerbase of FFXI, or 2) on Ifrit, NAs really are that bad, and JPs really are that good. Grizzlebeard's post (and rare is the moment I agree with darn near anything that Grizzlebeard posts) was sarcastically stating that the latter is obviously the more likely scenario.

                      Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                      Are you Lv.75, yet? Done a merit party? Get there, get a few parses with different setups, and then you can really chime in to talk about what's the 'truth'. (Don't wait too long; Lv.80 cap is coming soon, and all that knowledge about Lv.75 meriting would become pretty useless soon. lol.)
                      Maybe you didn't get the memo, but I'm not exactly what you would call "in a hurry" to do anything in-game, barring my Promys for Adventurer Appreciation, and considering I'm leaving for a three-day weekend in Orlando this Friday, not to mention how busy schoolwork (yes, I'm taking summer classes) and looking for a job has left me in the meantime, I don't think I'll even be getting those done in time. Not to mention that, if what we know about level 75 merits is going to be useless pretty soon anyway, then why should I even bother to care about what we know about them at all?

                      If I ever find myself the time, I'll just finish BLU to 25 (leveling /BLU sub was a pretty bad idea in retrospect), bring my PLD and WHM from 40 to 50, and then, assuming S-E doesn't add anything to make /BLU more worthwhile, or make another job worth leveling at all (hint: that would take A LOT; leveling /BLM right now seems like a good idea, except that would involve spending even more time and leveling Black Mage, which would require much more persuasion for doing than there is now; /SCH even more so), finally get on the RDM leveling wagon again, just to shut you guys up.

                      Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                      JP CORs only want /WHM, and NA CORs here seem to only like /NIN.
                      I'm just going off of BBQ's experiences with the job here, myself, but it would seem like both sides on your server are doing it terribly wrong.
                      Last edited by Yellow Mage; 05-19-2010, 07:55 PM.
                      Originally posted by Armando
                      No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
                      Originally posted by Armando
                      Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
                      Originally posted by Taskmage
                      GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

                      REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

                      GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

                      THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
                      Originally posted by Taskmage
                      However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
                      Matthew 16:15

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                        Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                        I was following the logic of "more damage" that some of you folks seem to love so much. If more than one back line sources of cure is too much, why stop at removing one /WHM? Why not get a Haste person who can also do more damage?

                        Why worry about DNC not able to cure enough when you can do more damage to kill faster, if you believe the "more damage = more exp/hr" mantra that you and Grizzlebeard both advocating.
                        More damage=more kills at quicker rate=more exp earned. 1/6 jobs main focus is keeping all 6 jobs alive, followed closely by hasting the group. (That's the RDM) Rdm can DD sure, AND GOD KNOWS I'M NOT TAKING THE CONVERSATION THIS DIRECTION, BUT they're most useful roll (that of main healer) suffers when they do (not a disccusion for this thread).

                        DNC can drop 680+ Waltzs on players instantly, as well as drop 1100Dmg Dancing edges. They were designed to do it one right after the other. That's why you'd include them, as well as 10% additional haste.
                        And yeah, More dmg does = more exp an hour. That's how the game works...

                        It's about the odds. Where there is only one person with (reliable) Paralyna, and he's not mid cast or resting, and he guesses correctly who is under most danger and casts Paralyna on that person, it's fine. However, if any of those conditions are not met--and over the course of a merit party, any RDM/WHM will find himself without one of those condition--then, possible danger.

                        Two back line players with Paralyna cuts the threat of Dread Shriek by more than half, IMO.

                        Two sources of cures means that the main healer (the person with Cure IV or V) is less likely to run out MP when links and other bad things happen. (ex: My last Jade Sepulcher party started off with a -ga III that everyone missed on the very first monster. A RDM who just spend a ton of MP on Protect/Shell IV and Haste the front line would have to immediately dip into Convert if had it been a single cure source set up.)
                        Herein lies the rub, Your basing your entire setup off of a single TP move that may or may not wipe your Party, your gimping your dmg output, speed, and efficency to account for one single TP move that you shouldn't encounter but maybe once or twice every 30 minutes. And if your party missed a ga-3 and the RDM had to convert right off the bat, that shouldn't matter. Your rdm should be converting as soon as the timer is up anyway, otherwise he's just wasting mp. Again this goes back to aggresive play vs. conservative. Aggresive is going to get more Exp/hr.

                        Real world do most players perform below the ideal skill line in merit parties. Yeah. So playing conservative (in your ideal party setup) is probably not a bad thing. But when I get into a merit party, and 5 minutes in it's clear that the other 5 players have a clue, and are focused enough to push the envelope you best believe i'm gonna forsake some insurance to improve my Exp/hr. Were getting down to personel prefrence at this point.

                        I also don't like to shove all that work at a single RDM/WHM or WHM/SCH. I've been there as the single-healer RDM, and I find it a distasteful task, especially when the front line are uncooperative about damage mitigation. It's so much easier when there's a second cure source who can keep people upright while I catch 2-3 ticks of hMP.
                        ........*cough*......*cough*...........dancer.

                        bard stuff
                        Yeah I feel ya, i guess.... 4/5 zenith (no dalmy), serket ring, star necklace is what I use, I mean that fits into one macro where I'm from, but... I dunno

                        I'd also rather take a Dia1+Box step+light shot, then a Dia2+Light shot. Saves way more MP and is a necessary thing anyway for Dancers to generate the TP that they do so well.

                        IMO the DNC is the best for that role, but at any camp other than Jade Sepulcher. I like COR/DNC as well, but JP CORs only want /WHM, and NA CORs here seem to only like /NIN. *shrug*
                        You just haven't merited with a decent dancer yet, I don't think. You get one who's got a 120+ chrisma build for waltz, roundel earring, AF body, Relic head, and ask me how often your Rdm/whm is curing. Hell on BG the theory talk about 75>80 is actually talking about 3DD, Bard/whm, Cor/nin (pulling), and Dancer as the main heal. I honestly can see this working out wonderfully. Cor/nin pulling has a ton of benefits. heck pull with crappy Ninja magic (dunno cast times/recast times) but you wouldn't even loose TP from swapping weapons around for quick Ranged attacks at that point.
                        Last edited by ShepardG; 05-20-2010, 07:22 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                          Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
                          The absurd discrepancies between the statements of your own experiences and the experiences of everybody else on this dang site leads to one of two conclusions: 1) you have an uncanny bias towards the Japanese playerbase of FFXI, or 2) on Ifrit, NAs really are that bad, and JPs really are that good.
                          Actually, I freely admit bias.

                          The question is, why do I have a bias? Have a look at the exp/hr figures from my last 20+ merit parties (w/out LS members) which I have parses for:

                          EN = Everyone spoke English.
                          JP majority = I was the only non-JP.
                          EN majority = One JP player in party.
                          Mixed = 4:2 or 3:3, either way.

                          Exp rings' bonus have been calculated out; the EXP/hr figure is the base exp (with Sanction, but no ring). Every single one of those parties were from flag up; I didn't make any of them, and didn't pick the party members.

                          Unless I know the person to be a lousy player, I take the first non-replacement invite I get on BRD (think only one party was SAM); my /seacom macro has a "No replacement, please." line. I do not ask what jobs are in the party before I accept invite, and I take invites pretty much from any job--heck, PLDs need exp buffers, too.


                          Composition__Date_________Camp______EXP/hr
                          JP_majority__2010.04.14___Colibri___17.9
                          JP_majority__2010.03.27___Jade______22.5
                          EN___________2010.03.26___Colibri___14.6
                          EN_majority__2010.03.09___Colibri___18.0
                          JP_majority__2010.02.28___Upper_____25.5
                          JP_majority__2010.02.23___Jade______17.1
                          EN___________2010.02.06___Colibri___14.6
                          EN___________2010.02.05___Colibri___16.0
                          EN___________2010.02.05___Colibri___18.6
                          EN_majority__2010.01.14___Colibri____8.5
                          JP_majority__2010.01.08___Jade______27.2
                          JP_majority__2009.10.13___Upper_____26.1
                          JP_majority__2009.10.13___Upper_____25.2
                          EN___________2009.10.21___Colibri___22.1
                          JP_majority__2009.10.20___Colibri___24.3
                          JP_majority__2009.10.17___Jade______25.3
                          EN___________2009.10.17___Colibri___21.0
                          JP_majority__2009.10.16___Upper_____19.1
                          EN___________2009.10.09___Colibri___19.1
                          JP_majority__2009.10.08___Colibri___20.7
                          Mixed________2009.10.06___Colibri___18.0



                          A little hard to decipher all that at a glance, so I'll break out the "JP Majority" and the "EN" parties:


                          Composition__Date_________Camp______EXP/hr
                          EN___________2010.03.26___Colibri___14.6
                          EN___________2010.02.06___Colibri___14.6
                          EN___________2010.02.05___Colibri___16.0
                          EN___________2010.02.05___Colibri___18.6
                          EN___________2009.10.21___Colibri___22.1
                          EN___________2009.10.17___Colibri___21.0
                          EN___________2009.10.09___Colibri___19.1
                          ____________________Average:________18.0
                          ____________________Low:____________14.6
                          ____________________High:___________22.1



                          Composition__Date_________Camp______EXP/hr
                          JP_majority__2010.04.14___Colibri___17.9
                          JP_majority__2010.03.27___Jade______22.5
                          JP_majority__2010.02.28___Upper_____25.5
                          JP_majority__2010.02.23___Jade______17.1
                          JP_majority__2010.01.08___Jade______27.2
                          JP_majority__2009.10.20___Colibri___24.3
                          JP_majority__2009.10.17___Jade______25.3
                          JP_majority__2009.10.16___Upper_____19.1
                          JP_majority__2009.10.13___Upper_____26.1
                          JP_majority__2009.10.13___Upper_____25.2
                          JP_majority__2009.10.08___Colibri___20.7
                          ____________________Average:________22.8
                          ____________________Low:____________17.1
                          ____________________High:___________26.1



                          If the Blue Oni group gives you 18.0k exp/hr on average, and the Red Oni group gives you 22.8 exp/hr on average, which group will you be biased against? Maybe you like Blue better than Red anyway, but I like the higher exp/hr figure myself, and the Reds happen to be "JP majority".

                          I also like JP parties for the lack of mysterious d/c's, the cussing, the crude sex jokes, and the ever annoying replacements--but those are just the bonuses. The party's performance is the exp/hr, and the exp/hr is the party's performance, after all.



                          Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
                          Grizzlebeard's post (and rare is the moment I agree with darn near anything that Grizzlebeard posts) was sarcastically stating that the latter is obviously the more likely scenario.
                          Because EVERYBODY ELSE on this site actually quote real numbers combed from multiple parties after thinking about how to fairly compare the numbers, except me. Am I right?

                          * * *

                          Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                          ........*cough*......*cough*...........dancer.
                          Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                          You just haven't merited with a decent dancer yet, I don't think.
                          I believe I've already said I like DNCs. (They're great for WS spam parties, except at the Jade Sepulcher camp, IMO)

                          Anyway, since I rarely make parties unless LS members are involved, and almost no one else invites DNCs, on some level it doesn't really matter what I like or dislike when it comes to DNC.


                          Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                          Yeah I feel ya, i guess.... 4/5 zenith (no dalmy), serket ring, star necklace is what I use, I mean that fits into one macro where I'm from, but... I dunno
                          You mean one macro to get HP down, which is nice.

                          But, left out at least another macro to get normal operational gear up.

                          I have three Zenith, and the rest of the HP down gear isn't as nice as yours. Two macros for HP down, two macros for general optional gear. One more macro for offensive songs if I'm running off to pull, since my "normal" set is for general buffs.

                          So, up to five macros, for me when over-cured. (Plus two pallet switches.)



                          Originally posted by ShepardG View Post
                          I'd also rather take a Dia1+Box step+light shot, then a Dia2+Light shot. Saves way more MP and is a necessary thing anyway for Dancers to generate the TP that they do so well.
                          The one COR who was doing the Light Shot Dia upgrade was a COR/WHM; he was casting the Dia II himself. Worked out fine; RDM/WHM + COR/WHM meant no MP worries.



                          * * *


                          Well, it's the end of an era; the Lv.75 merit party is soon to be a thing of the past.

                          In a way, I shall miss it; the vast majority of my 4,290,000 limit points sunk into merits came from the much discussed WS spam party at the current level cap. At the same time, it is rather past due to move on to new things.

                          With it gone, I suspect I'd still be hearing loud boasts of "Never a party less than 30k/hr!" since no one will be doing them anymore to contradict them. Those who buy into the myth will chime in to defend those claims, too, I'm guessing.

                          But, this obsessive parser user will remember that he never had a pickup group that did better than 26.1k exp/hr (base), and he did heck of whole lot of those merit parties.

                          As far as I can tell: Most people don't have relics or 20~25% gear haste. Most of the RDMs in merit parties do not have 2 MP/tick gear refresh or 1k Convert. (Many of them don't even cast Dia II/III.) Most of the people don't merit on fully merited jobs, either.

                          And, worst of all, most of the DDs can't figure out that I usually put the bird in front of the first provoke person, so they should all go on the same side as the first provoke person (which would benefit SAM with Overwhelm, too!) to prevent disengaging unnecessarily. And, no, they still can't grasp the concept even after an hour of partying and four reminders from me.

                          Given all that, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that my experience of ~20k exp/hr average base exp is a lot closer to what the majority of people see, rather than the 30k to 40k figures people like to claim now and in the future.
                          Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                          yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                          Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                          leaving no trace in the water.

                          - Mugaku

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                            Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                            Because EVERYBODY ELSE on this site actually quote real numbers combed from multiple parties after thinking about how to fairly compare the numbers, except me. Am I right?
                            I don't have any vested interest in installing a parser to back my figures up, partly because I have no need for one, and partly because the rampant use of them in WoW really soured my perception of them and the people who constantly use them. Even so, your figures are no more credible than mine, any data produced by yourself here is just as questionable as a random number plucked out the air or are you assuming because you say, "These figures are parsed" that they suddenly become accepted as beyond reproach. ExpWatch is sufficient for me, it's really no skin off my nose if you don't believe my figures. That said, after seeing the spectacularly unremarkable rates you just posted up I can understand why you wouldn't want to believe them.

                            Have you ever thought that maybe the good NA players just avoid you? Because I'm struggling to believe there are no non-JPs on Ifrit capable of topping 23k/hour on colibri.

                            Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                            Given all that, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that my experience of ~20k exp/hr average base exp is a lot closer to what the majority of people see, rather than the 30k to 40k figures people like to claim now and in the future.
                            20k per hour is maybe what the average person sees but this discussion was about maximising exp gain per hour. Maybe you need to work on catching up to those of us already beyond that point before offering advice.
                            Last edited by Grizzlebeard; 05-22-2010, 12:40 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                              Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                              Given all that, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that my experience of ~20k exp/hr average base exp is a lot closer to what the majority of people see, rather than the 30k to 40k figures people like to claim now and in the future.
                              I love how you like to talk about numbers, and then claim with this small sample size and the fact that you've only ever merited on one server that your xp/hr is the average amount that people will see. 30k+ is not difficult, it really just comes down to A) having the best job combination WITH THE PLAYERS KNOWING WHAT THEY ARE DOING and B) having the camp open. The fact that you say in this same post that you'll take invites from anybody, including PLD, shows you aren't building an efficient merit party and if all you did was take terrible job combos during NA time and not so much during JP time it would further skew your data.
                              Cleverness - Hades
                              75BLU/75RDM/75NIN/60SAM/59SMN
                              DRK/NIN/WHM/BLM/SCH/WAR/PLD subs

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

                                Just a couple of things.

                                Most people don't have relics or 20~25% gear haste. Most of the RDMs in merit parties do not have 2 MP/tick gear refresh or 1k Convert. (Many of them don't even cast Dia II/III.) Most of the people don't merit on fully merited jobs, either.
                                Even if I where to get the pieces of Homam I want, I don't know if I'd get to 20-25% gear haste, plus my other haste gear. The other thing is that people don't hit lvl 75 and start meriting with full merits, they have to start somewhere. You know, yeah, once I get a job fully merited I'll merit on it, until then however, I am going to be meriting on jobs that are not fully merited just because I don't have one that is.

                                Not to be rude, but I kinda read the above as, "Most people don't have (used to be) rare highly sought after relic gear, homam, or full merits" Which smacks greatly as elitism to me. I'd probably point to the homam, or say, Rdm relic hat, and say that this was true, there are typically long lines of people waiting for those drops in particular.


                                You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

                                I don't have a big ego, it just has a large mouth.

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