Kanican's AV strategy

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

It seems like most of the "exploit!" detractors are either fixating on a terrain detail being invoked, or more commonly simply working from one of the following assumptions:

...

3) SE does not intend to allow AV to be killed by players employing any strategy besides the precise strategy devised by the development team and "documented" in the video. Variations and innovations will not be tolerated.

Well, I think the change:

Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden will now vanish two hours after their appearance, automatically ending the battle.

qualifies as "you beat these NMs the way we want you to beat them, or you don't beat them at all".

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

If there's a chance you can beat AV now but won't be able to after the change, wouldn't you want to beat him while you can?

I'd give anybody wanting to try this about 5 days left.

[Armando]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

It's a great proposal, but the truth is that no one is going to take on this strategy. There's absolutely no reason to fight AV now that we know something is going to happen to it after the September update, so it's really pointless to try to develop a working strategy at this stage in my opinion.

Whatever SE does probably won't change this strategy's effectiveness.

Even if you were right, that's just incentive to try, not to not try. If there's a chance you can beat AV now but won't be able to after the change, wouldn't you want to beat him while you can?

[Feenicks]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

It's a great proposal, but the truth is that no one is going to take on this strategy. There's absolutely no reason to fight AV now that we know something is going to happen to it after the September update, so it's really pointless to try to develop a working strategy at this stage in my opinion.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

Again, I don't see any particular reason to assume that SE did not intend for kiting w/ Shadowbind to be available and play some role in strategy aside from them not explicitly showing it in the video. It seems like most of the "exploit!" detractors are either fixating on a terrain detail being invoked, or more commonly simply working from one of the following assumptions:

1) SE does not intend to allow AV to be killed by players.
2) SE does not intend to allow AV to be killed by players within a reasonable timeframe (which is counter to their recent announcement regarding PW/AV/JoL, though I don't buy that the fight exceeded their idea of a reasonable battle length so much as they suddenly realized they could get lots of bad PR for the lengths they originally had in mind on some mobs).
3) SE does not intend to allow AV to be killed by players employing any strategy besides the precise strategy devised by the development team and "documented" in the video. Variations and innovations will not be tolerated.

Seeing as there are legitimate reasons why both of the known AV patches could represent exploit fixes (a literally-impassable wall preventing the mob from even functioning, and very possibly an AI bug wrt previous locking methods), I don't think any of these are well-founded assumptions.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

. . . Or S-E could just totally screw with the way Enmity works, at least for AV. Didn't hear it from me though. >_>;

[Armando]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

Not really. They would have to give AV a zone-wide Draw In, or something stupid like letting him nuke you from anywhere in the zone, or letting him pos hack to you, to stop this strategy. This one doesn't even use anything questionable like the "see-through" wall.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but am I the only one reading these blog posts as a giant sign that reads:

"OHEY S-E, IF YOU ARE GOING TO FIX AV, YOU MIGHT AS WELL FIX THESE POTENTIAL ABUSES AS WELL BEFORE ANYBODY ACTUALLY KILLS AV WITH THEM!!!!!"?

[Armando]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

Hahah, this gets better every time I read it.

[Malacite]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

Kanican - AV Strategy II

version 2

[Armando]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

What Lunaryn said.

Odds are this isn't what SE had in mind and they could quickly fix it by not letting you cast through the walls without having to touch AV's AI.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

The key distinction between this and Wall of Justice is that this doesn't provide a perfect defense where AV is rendered a harmless target to people it can't attempt to reach. If executed perfectly, AV will be kept busy by a sort of co-tank pseudo-kiting which, while a relatively new approach, is hardly the low-risk exploit of attacking AV from a position he literally cannot get to. I don't think this is the kind of solution SE envisioned, though given the fact that Shadowbind in particular is a rare status he's susceptible to, it may not be that far off the mark. In which case making Draw In always get used when the target is far off would probably be considered going too far even if they didn't like the enmity-swap-across-a-wall scheme.

As far as Windower, the wireframe screenshot is just there to demonstrate the fact that the other side of the wall is right there and that the obstruction doesn't matter, just the distance. For targeting purposes, the standard in-game commands of /target and/or /assist are efficacious and appropriate.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

so is that AV strategy abuse a glitch and use windower?

From what I can tell, windower is only used to help determine where this strategy can be put into place. So you could pull this off even with players who don't use windower.

My thought was, if people manage to pull off this convoluted strategy, will SE consider this yet another variation on ye old Wall of Justice, and expand AV's use of Draw In to make AV unbeatable yet again.

[Malacite]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

Maybe slowing him the fuck down so he doesn't move so fast so melee can actually hit him?

[Anaki]

Re: Kanican's AV strategy

so is that AV strategy abuse a glitch and use windower?