A question for all the girl players out there.

[Kafeen]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

sleezy, suggestive stuff on a linkshell is nothing new. If that happens, simply unequip your linkshell for a while or log out.

Why should people be forced to log out because of someone else?

Ask them to stop politely. If that doesn't work, either Blist them or GM them.

[Ziero]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

So I'm a newbie. I've only been playing for a few weeks and I'm pretty lucky because no sooner had I started, I met a great Link Shell with some really great people on it.

But last night when I was playing some of the guys in my linkshell started talking some really sleezy, sexist stuff amongst each other. I was feeling kinda uncomfortable and I thought to myself - hey, maybe they don't realise there are any girl players on the linkshell at the moment. So I asked them if they could please tone it down. I think a couple of them did but the rest pretty much ignored me. So I had no choice but to leave the ls.

I'm not sure I'll go back again now - I feel tainted. Do you think I should go back?

Has this every happened to any other girls? Are there any female only shells?

I'm keen to know if anyone has had any other similiar experiences.

Where they making those comments towards you specifically or just joking with each other? There is a big difference between the two.

I think its terrible how guys flock to a girl on the game and harrass them into oblivion. But can you blame the little creepos, locked away in their dungeons most of the day deprived of human contact, thank god I am married or I might have been the same way.

Because it's only guys who try to start these intraweb relationships that go no where, right?

Why should people be forced to log out because of someone else?

Ask them to stop politely. If that doesn't work, either Blist them or GM them.

Simple. If she's new to this LS, and they have a long standing history of joking around with each other in a "perverted" way, why should all of them suddenly change because of one new member? If they're making comments to her, it's one thing, but if these are just a buncha guys making guy jokes to each other, it's a whole 'nother ball game.

I'm currently in a damn great social LS, been in it for years and hell I'm actually in charge of it. When it started, when I joined up with the guy who originally brought the core group together, it was mainly a buncha immature guys and one guys wife. At the time the shell was full of dirty jokes and toilet humor. Even the one girl would frequently get in on it, as it was all in good fun and we all grew to be close friends. Hell, we even managed to turn the act of Curing into a dirty word. Over time, things changed and the shell reformed a few times but that core ideal of just a buncha people having fun still remained. For a while we had a few younger players and "sensitive" people so we tried to cut it down to a more "PG" LS when they were on. But it just wasn't the same when you would get reprimanded for telling a dirty joke that was genuinly funny.

But over time, those people either left, or to be blunt, lightened up, and now we're back to our foul mouthed, off colored LS self and it's down right fun. And it's not just a LS of guys making dirty jokes, we do things and help each other out (especially myself) and though we may be a bit "pervy" at times, we don't actively harass any of our female members. Infact many of them will retaliate with their own jokes and comments. Hell one chick in the shell is known for her "your mom" jokes, and pulls them out fairly frequently.

But despite (to some) or because of (to me at least) of our laid back nature and ability to take a joke, we've been able to survive and thrive as a LS and as friends. And if someone came in now, and came to me complaining about the language and content in the shell, I would flat out tell them that. In the end, we're a group of friends who can tell when we're joking and aren't the type to be easily offended, though we won't tease that person we won't stop being us either. So if it really became a problem then it would be best if said person just moved on. There's nothing wrong with some good ol' dirty jokes, but if some people, understandably, don't wish to hear it then it's better if they leave rather then asking the entire LS to change. You don't have to be a bad person to make a "sexist" remark, and you don't have to be a bad person to not want to hear those things.

I mean, not to be "that guy", but we've only heard very little and one side of this situation.

What I think is worse is that a lot of females I've met in-game think it's attractive to call themselves 'the Linkshell sex-retary'...That sort of thing just gets on my nerves.

...ya know, I've never heard that line before. I gotta remember to pitch it to the ladies in my shell and see how they react

[Durahansolo]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

This topic sorta reminds me of our linkshell. Our shell is kinda diverse because we have many different kinda of players: Gay; Straight; Bi-sexual; Vegan; Female; Male; African-American; Spanish; White; so there will be alot of times where somebody says something that is either a little off base or waaayy off base which will cause a linkshell discussion. Our leader is one of 3 females in our linkshell. One recently quit the game and the other is one of our member's gf. There may be more but nobody tells me anything :3

I think the majority of the discussions involved one of my favorite members (his account is compromized atm but he should be getting it back soon) and his Veganism. Pretty much everytime he says something about himself being Vegan, you get 9000 ls members jumping in talking about why meat is > all lol.

However the majority of the time when we are randomly talking about women, our leader joins in and talks about men and then we all hide until she starts talking about her bi-ness lmao.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Simple. If she's new to this LS, and they have a long standing history of joking around with each other in a "perverted" way, why should all of them suddenly change because of one new member? If they're making comments to her, it's one thing, but if these are just a buncha guys making guy jokes to each other, it's a whole 'nother ball game.

I'm currently in a damn great social LS, been in it for years and hell I'm actually in charge of it. When it started, when I joined up with the guy who originally brought the core group together, it was mainly a buncha immature guys and one guys wife. At the time the shell was full of dirty jokes and toilet humor. Even the one girl would frequently get in on it, as it was all in good fun and we all grew to be close friends. Hell, we even managed to turn the act of Curing into a dirty word. Over time, things changed and the shell reformed a few times but that core ideal of just a buncha people having fun still remained. For a while we had a few younger players and "sensitive" people so we tried to cut it down to a more "PG" LS when they were on. But it just wasn't the same when you would get reprimanded for telling a dirty joke that was genuinly funny.

But over time, those people either left, or to be blunt, lightened up, and now we're back to our foul mouthed, off colored LS self and it's down right fun. And it's not just a LS of guys making dirty jokes, we do things and help each other out (especially myself) and though we may be a bit "pervy" at times, we don't actively harass any of our female members. Infact many of them will retaliate with their own jokes and comments. Hell one chick in the shell is known for her "your mom" jokes, and pulls them out fairly frequently.

But despite (to some) or because of (to me at least) of our laid back nature and ability to take a joke, we've been able to survive and thrive as a LS and as friends. And if someone came in now, and came to me complaining about the language and content in the shell, I would flat out tell them that. In the end, we're a group of friends who can tell when we're joking and aren't the type to be easily offended, though we won't tease that person we won't stop being us either. So if it really became a problem then it would be best if said person just moved on. There's nothing wrong with some good ol' dirty jokes, but if some people, understandably, don't wish to hear it then it's better if they leave rather then asking the entire LS to change. You don't have to be a bad person to make a "sexist" remark, and you don't have to be a bad person to not want to hear those things.

With this type of ls you MUST warn new members of the atmosphere. If they say they don't mind and then complain after they are in it, then its their fault. Now some ls's might want to expand in order to change to a sky/dynamis/hnm etc ls. In those cases, the established members may have to change their tactics. When a large group of people get together, everyone is going to have a different outlook. You have to be sensitive to that in order to keep the group together if you want to do big events. One way you could get around that is to have a vent channel for the off color joking and keep it out of ls. This doesn't always work since not everyone plays on the PC but it is a good solution.

Let's remember too, there are jokes in good taste and then there are things that aren't. I don't care what anyone says, there are things you say around women and things you do NOT. If you do talk like that around a woman you are disrespecting her and even though she might say she doesn't mind, she does. I play a mithra and I've had some suggestive things said to me and I usually just laugh. I can take a dirty joke at my age. LOL But then there is downright filthy and that I don't stand for. "I wonder if your ***** hair is as soft and downy as your fur. Can I pet you with my tongue?" That was a comment said to me 2 days ago and I won't even put down what else was said because its even worse. THAT is NOT funny. You wouldn't try to get a date with a woman irl by saying something like that to her so you shouldn't be saying stuff like that online either. It's disrespectful and immature.

I tend to liberally use my blist in these cases but if you are in a dynamis/sky/etc ls then you might not have that option. I've been in ls's were blisting wasn't allowed. (Wasn't too keen on that either.) If it is, just make sure to tell the shellholder why you are doing it. Sometimes situations can be resolved and sometimes they can not. Sometimes an ls is a good fit and sometimes it is not. Just know when to use your blist, alert the shellholder to the situation, and if things don't get better then leave the ls.

[Ziero]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Honestly, I don't "have to" or actually do, warn any new member that gets invited. Anyone who does join the shell is either a friend of a friend or someone one of our members met and thinks would fit in. Usually this means said person is used to our types of humor/random insanity we generally converse with. And if someone doesn't like our LS they're free to leave as I'm not one who will be offended when someone doesn't want to stay with us. While yes it's nice to make new friends, we shouldn't have to have a group of 20-30 people all change their senses of humor to accept one new member. And if they don't like us then there's no hard feelings if they do leave.

As for your examples, as I said, none of my members ever actually harass the female members of our shell. At least not the females who aren't making those types of comments themselves. The comments made to you were obviously unwelcomed and as such you reacted understandably. And if anyone did that in my shell, and I recieved a complaint about that kind of behavior, then I would do something. But when a girl is letting loose with the toilet humor and ripping into people, as a joke, then she better (and in my LS they can) be able to take it as well.

And one thing that I will never do in my shell is invite people specifically to do end game things. My group is a social group with people of all level ranges and I enforce that belief constantly. We can still do end game things when we have the people on, but that will never be the sole focus of this shell. So I'm not real worried about offending people in a Sky god situation, because I don't focus on end game events. We're friends first, and friends tear into each other. As stated by (one of the raunchier) members of our LS, we're allowed to rip on each other, but no one else is!

But again, for the OP. We don't know what was said, or who it was said to. If it was just guys being guys and making off color comments to each other, and this is normal acceptable behavior for that LS, who are we and who is she to all of a sudden ask everyone to change? If anything that would just create harsh, unwelcomed feelings to her as she's trying to change what's normal about the shell to suit her needs. If they're commenting to her, that is one thing and she should contact GMs or something, but if they're just talking to each other normally, it's not something she should take personally. And again, if that's the common nature of the shell, then it's best for her to find a different shell anyway rather then change the one she's in.

I've seen in this very forum, people make dirty jokes and off color comments and sexist remarks, all in good humor. Making gay jokes with gay members and sexual innuendos for comedic affect. What if some new poster came in and suddenly told all of us to stop making those kinds of jokes because it offends him? Should we all just change to please the one person?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Well Ziero, the first paragraph was my only response to you. Imo, I do feel you MUST warn new members of that type of behavior out of courtesy. I would respect a person more if I were forewarned instead of it being thrust upon me. While you might not mind if a person joins, doesn't like it, and leaves, the person who just wasted their time may have some hurt feelings. All this can be avoided by simply forewarning the person. "Hey, just so you are aware, we talk dirty a lot, swear, and get raunchy in the ls. Is that ok with you?" So on this point we'll have to agree to disgree. (I do understand that most people you invite are friends used to your way of joking but the thread is aimed at people who are not friends and are just joining a random ls.)

I like to joke around just like the next person. It takes a lot to offend me but there are some things that cross the line and that I just do not find funny. So if I'm joking around with people and some person steps over the line, I will call them on it. The mature people will stop and the immature people will keep going. It's a good way to seperate the men from the boys.

[Ziero]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Well I'm of the opinion that my LS is special (in more ways then one! *rimshot*) in that we're sorta picky in who we let in. But I can see how other shells would need to be a bit more cautious and warn new members of those types of antics.

However, all my rants basically boil down to this. My LS is a great LS, full of helpful, friendly, good, honest people. However these people can also be pretty damned raunchy at times. And I can easily see this type of situation, where we invite a new member, and they get offended at things we say to each other, happing. Though it hasn't really happened, I can still see it being possible. But I know that if it did happen, and if it was just one person complaining about the status quo, I wouldn't suddenly demand everyone changed. I would let the person know that this is how we are, and while we may be great people to hang with, I can't have everyone change to suit a single person's demands. We tried the "PG-ing" it up for a while when we had younger members in the shell, and it just wasn't the same shell.

Almost every reply in this topic up to my comment blindly sided with her and damned the LS and it's members. Calls to use the blist or GM people and wanting the leader to force change in the LS. But if it's just one new person complaining about comments not even made to them, why should others then suffer? Wouldn't it be better for that one person to quietly duck out and find a group better suited to their preferences? Or heck, as Callisto stated, "toughen up" and just not take things not aimed at you personally.

And again, we don't know what was said, who it was said too or how other members of the shell feel about these kinds of situations. This is all based on the story of a relatively new member of this shell. Who are we to suggest get people banned based on what little we know?

[Durahansolo]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

We tried the "PG-ing" it up for a while when we had younger members in the shell, and it just wasn't the same shell.

lol I remember back when there were alot of new members in our ls we tried to keep it PG-13 during the daytime. However, at anytime before or between 9:00P EST - 3:00A EST I would say "Late Night TEF Tonight @ 12" (TEF is the Acronym for our ls btw) or any random time after 9:00P ranges varied alot lol. During that time we would crack jokes on each other, talk about various IRL problems, and make sentences with the Auto-Translate function to make each other lol for fun. That was usually the time when the more frequent members were on and less of the newbie passerbys so we'd always have fun. Those were the good ol days.....

However, all my rants basically boil down to this. My LS is a great LS, full of helpful, friendly, good, honest people. However these people can also be pretty damned raunchy at times. And I can easily see this type of situation, where we invite a new member, and they get offended at things we say to each other, happing. Though it hasn't really happened, I can still see it being possible. But I know that if it did happen, and if it was just one person complaining about the status quo, I wouldn't suddenly demand everyone changed. I would let the person know that this is how we are, and while we may be great people to hang with, I can't have everyone change to suit a single person's demands. We tried the "PG-ing" it up for a while when we had younger members in the shell, and it just wasn't the same shell.

Or you end up with a situation like what happened in our linkshell. We had 2 gay members in our linkshell, and one made a remark to the other who was a sackholder. We as sackholders had agreed that we would hold sackholder meetings to discuss things like this and warn people and then kick them later on if they violated the situation. However, in this situation the sackholder kicked the other member and then told everybody about it after he did it without discussion.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Almost every reply in this topic up to my comment blindly sided with her and damned the LS and it's members. Calls to use the blist or GM people and wanting the leader to force change in the LS. But if it's just one new person complaining about comments not even made to them, why should others then suffer? Wouldn't it be better for that one person to quietly duck out and find a group better suited to their preferences? Or heck, as Callisto stated, "toughen up" and just not take things not aimed at you personally.

And again, we don't know what was said, who it was said too or how other members of the shell feel about these kinds of situations. This is all based on the story of a relatively new member of this shell. Who are we to suggest get people banned based on what little we know?

I think most people are assuming that what was said was the type of comment that crosses the line. I think most people are assuming that the comments were directed at her personally too. I advised to use the blist because calling a GM doesn't do squat. They just tell you to use the blist too! LOL Really the blist is your only option if you are that offended but I always advise talking to the person privately first and then using the blist. Sometimes an intelligent mature conversation will yield many more benefits than throwing a hissy fit.

[Ziero]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

That's the issue I'm having though, it's a whole lotta assumptions =/

[Alinys]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Honestly, I think if the LS was like that already and invited her not knowing what may be appropriate for her, it's not really anyone's fault, as such, but the appropriate way to deal with it in my opinion is for her to say to the LS leader, or the member directly, that this sort of thing is outside her comfort zone. If the LS is like that, this is when she can be warned that that's how it happens there, and if she doesn't like it she's under no obligation to stay.

I don't feel anyone should be restricted (within reason) to how they speak or act in a game, or even in real life, but if something makes another person uncomfortable I think we can all be civil enough to at least discuss it and figure out what's best for everyone involved.

[Aksannyi]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

I've had this problem in the past, and let me tell you, simply asking people to stop does jackshit. I've said in the kindest manner possible: "Name, your use of that nickname offends me. I would appreciate if you'd stop calling me that." And gotten absolutely no result. I was made out to be the LINKSHELL BITCH because of it. Because I can't "take a joke." Give me a fucking break! There are some things that cross the damn line. That one "nickname" given to me by someone ultimately ruined my experience in that linkshell, and it was a Dynamis LS, too.

Your best option is to blist. I don't like to do it to people I'm in ls or party with because I might miss something important (hell, I am a WHM after all) but I couldn't take it anymore.

Asking people to stop doesn't help. When I was in the Army, that was what we were told to do. Ask them to stop. And then if it persisted, climb the chain of command. Well, doing that is worthless, too. The game is highly regulated by the players (ls leaders, etc.) and they don't do shit either. GMs? Forget it. It's worthless to try.

If it really offends you, feel free to say something, but I wouldn't expect anything to come of it. A lot of people have absolutely no concept of other people sitting on the other side of that internet connection. It's pretty sad.

Blist is, unfortunately, your best bet. That or leaving your current LS for one where you feel a bit more comfortable. Best of luck hun. I can say I've been there and it sucks. :/

[TheGrandMom]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

You are right Aks, many times it doesn't help but you must at least try. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are decent human beings....until they prove me wrong. Asking first doesn't hurt anyone and I've made some very good friends by doing it. I had one young man that said something extremely filthy to me out of the blue. (Had never met him before) I messaged him and asked him to please refrain from speaking to me like that and gave him the reason why. He started a conversation asking me why it offended me so etc. (Yes, some people really don't realize that they are being offensive.) We became very good friends in game and chat often on vent, MSN, the phone, etc.

[Aksannyi]

Re: A question for all the girl players out there.

Yeah it doesn't hurt to ask, I'm just saying don't get your hopes up. lol. It's pretty sad that you can't just ask people to stop and they'll just stop.