Fun with Endgame! :)

[Callisto]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

It's probably a good thing I'm not the actual shellholder, if I was we wouldn't even be able to do events because I'd have kicked 3/4 of the LS by now.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

As for the "on trial" person, kick them. If they are on trial and they are already acting up, keeping them in the ls is just asking for trouble imo.

We had a new person, on his FIRST RUN in Dynamis-Bastok, go AFK without saying anything for a good hour. We went down to the bottom of the alley where all those pulls are (and he was up top, close to the bridge) and came back up to where you do all those pulls at the zone of Z Mines and Markets, and he was STILL afk. So we put a BLM in his party to D2 him and his pearl was broken. I do love that this ls doesn't fuck around. If you're fucking up, you're gone.

How the hell do you go AFK like that your FIRST RUN WITH AN LS?

I was almost hoping the leader would suddenly get on vent and tell us about a barrage of /tells from the guy, but sadly, that never took place.

[Callisto]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

If my statistics are correct, of those eight, I'd assume some were officers and members who've been around a while. I'll also wager they play tank, healer or support classes and not generally BLM or DD.

Am I close?

Actually not even close, I didn't count the officers in that, and there's only 3 of us. One is a SCH/SMN that we got as a server transfer from Shiva, who has seriously impressed us with his play, on top of good attendance. One is a SAM who is also our backup PLD, his gear is hurting but he's trying very hard to improve in that area, and anything he doesn't know or understand he doesn't hesitate to ask questions about. 2 are old time members, though they follow the rules, show up, and execute when we need to. One is a BLM and WHM, who is a really good guy despite being almost completely functionally retarded and an awful BLM. The last few are DDs who aren't on my good side either, they just haven't fully pissed me off yet.
______________________________

Aww, I don't have a best friend in the game.

I guess that's why I dont' feel bad about sabbaticals. My only job for the last 3 years was RDM, and there are an ARMY of RDMs in each shell. And now my other 75 is PLD. Yeah, I can take breaks and the only LS that would miss me would be my social LS where I kite/tank ALL the hard shit.

Most of my really tight friends in the game left, but I'm extremely tight with our other two officers. One I've been an LSmate with for nearly 4 years now, since I was about 4 months into the game.

The other is the actual shellholder, the fact that we're pretty much best buds now is pretty ironic. The first time we interacted was in a Sky/HNM shell led by one of my old friends(who ended up jumping servers w/ the bank, that part sucked). The friend had begged me for fucking ever to come help his LS with Sky and such, at the time I was part of a Dynamis LS that I really liked that ran on the same nights. Eventually I took a break from Dynamis to help them with Sky, but I really was just doing it to get my friend to stop bugging me.

Since it was just fun time for me I was a bit of a diva, playing melee RDM on Sky trigs and such(to be fair I went all out with like Sole+1 and good gear, lol), and the leader of my current shell couldn't stand me b/c of it. He thought I was a dick b/c I didn't really take things seriously. Eventually that shell broke, I went back to Dynamis, and like a year and a half later restarted an old social shell I had been in as the new shellholder. My shell annexed two other shells and grew like all hell, but after awhile several of my members stopped showing up and were in a new endgame LS instead. Eventually they coaxed me into joining, I did begrudgingly b/c I was pissed that this shell fucked up my social shell.

Relative to some of the members I had more endgame knowledge than most, and at that time was one of only 2 RDMs, plus I came in pretty much fully geared. I was made an officer within about 3 weeks, and now I've been 2nd in command for nearly 10 months, lol.

Edit: Sorry for wall o' text!

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Aww, I don't have a best friend in the game.

I guess that's why I dont' feel bad about sabbaticals. My only job for the last 3 years was RDM, and there are an ARMY of RDMs in each shell. And now my other 75 is PLD. Yeah, I can take breaks and the only LS that would miss me would be my social LS where I kite/tank ALL the hard shit.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Remember to make your "late comer" policy complicated enough that you don't shaft people you actually need. For instance, there's a big difference between someone dragging their feet to come to something, and someone who logged on right after work to help out.

Last night, for instance, I logged 3 hrs into the Hakutaku run for my LS. Obviously, I'm some kind of horrible person here deserving of a kick from the ls. I've just spent 5 hrs in the sun dismantling stages/rigging downtown, then picked my 'rents up at the airport, spent 1/2 hr waiting on AAA to come help unlock my car door so I can drive them home, showered, and logged on. There were 3 runs left after I finally got there, and we were down to about 10-12 people at the time. However late I was, I was still needed and useful to the ls at this point. Did I ask first? You bet, I made sure they were doing more than one run and that they actually needed me there because it's about a 20 minute walk in, either way.

Never make your policies so simplistic that you shaft the people who come in late, because the way EGLS members like to leave early for the most BS of excuses, you need the late guys almost as much as you need the people you start with. Pro-rate points based on the time you were present, maybe give a bonus to people who can stay the entire run, whatever. But make sure that you don't try those "if you're more than 5 mins late you don't get anything" policies. These are the things that cause your longer farming events to be cut short due to lack of people. If you know you're going to be late, and all you get is a penalty or the shaft, most of us won't even bother to log on period.

My LS doesn't do points, and on SMN and WHM mains I need an Ohat like a lobotomy, the ability to join in and help/make fun of people was enough incentive to come. For others it might not be. Be careful that you don't set the standards for the LS too unreasonable.

I think he's addressing the chronic abusers and not your average person. You get to know who is dedicated but has a limited schedule and who is just an asshat coming up with excuses pretty quick. My ls knows that my schedule is tighter than tight. I still tweak out 4-5 hours a day to help with stuff but if anything needs to be done out of the usual timeframe, I'm usually late. But if I'm on I help whether it be advice, changing and going to Mt. Z....the blm mountain...to raise some dead solo'er, helping with ZNM's, etc. The chronic abuser just talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk and you know who they are right quick.

Of course, this guy was the one who insisted we weren't doing enough Byakko and later tried to start a mutiny in the LS over it. He actually went around to other members and officers (except me and a couple other officers, because we'd just nain his ass to the wall).

He got around to one of our officers and probably my best friend in the game, he asked her what she wanted most in the game. She said Sha'ir Manteel and then promptly laughed her ass of as he promised to help take down Vrtra for her manteele. Yeah, with just the six members he had managed to pull from our LS.

Oh hey I got one for you! We had a guy that wanted to be a sac so badly but they wouldn't sac him. So he ran around trying to get people to make another ls with him, including me, my son, and my husband. Well he got his friend irl and another friend to leave so off they went. They had been in the ls for quite some time actually and were kind of close with the leadership. Right before they left and after they left, they bad mouthed the leadership and the ls like crazy and still tried pulling people from the ls. They were absolutely horrid. Guess where they are now? Back in our ls and the guy that wanted to be a sac and left cause they wouldn't let him be one.......he's now a sac. Guess how he treats the people that turned him down for not leaving the ls...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Out of 25~ members I can think of maybe 8 at the moment who aren't on my shitlist.

If my statistics are correct, of those eight, I'd assume some were officers and members who've been around a while. I'll also wager they play tank, healer or support classes and not generally BLM or DD.

Am I close?

I remember this one time we had an officer out EXPing a lowbie job in Qufim a half hour before Dynamis-Windurst. Way to set an example.

Of course, this guy was the one who insisted we weren't doing enough Byakko and later tried to start a mutiny in the LS over it. He actually went around to other members and officers (except me and a couple other officers, because we'd just nain his ass to the wall).

He got around to one of our officers and probably my best friend in the game, he asked her what she wanted most in the game. She said Sha'ir Manteel and then promptly laughed her ass of as he promised to help take down Vrtra for her manteele. Yeah, with just the six members he had managed to pull from our LS.

[Callisto]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

We try to, but Ramuh endgame is incredibly diluted.

There's basically 3 main massive monster shells(one of them being Olorin's, lol), one of those is a group that came over from Kujata, absorbed half of Ramuh's endgame population, then brought over 30 more server transfers, the other is our resident "Yeah we bot, so what" 3PP/MPK/IGE/general douchebag shell.

There's a few mediums shells and a relatively large EU shell, and then there's 50 fucking million dinky little Sky/minor HNM shells. Recruiting here is incredibly hard, the open pool is basically people who are brand new to endgame(which we aren't against fully, as long as they've put some work into CoP) or people who are known bad apples that have been through an infinite number of failure shells.

Aside from that we're trying to make a concerted effort at getting out and meeting strangers more often, especially in terms of meritting. Our 3 officers are extremely tight and pretty do everything together, but we've been trying to invite strangers to fill in spots for other things so that we can meet new people and potentially recruit them.

And all of the friends I have on the server that I'd love to bring over are in point system shells and don't want to leave their current shells and give up the points they've accumulated.

For the people we do actually get that apply, 3 out of 10 get a pearl but never make a single event, then are in a different LS 2 months later, 2 don't pass trial, 2 are rejected, 2 end up being flakey douchebags that we eventually kick months down the road, and 1 of every 10 ends up being a good member.
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Remember to make your "late comer" policy complicated enough that you don't shaft people you actually need. For instance, there's a big difference between someone dragging their feet to come to something, and someone who logged on right after work to help out.

We try not to, especially with the massive time zone range we have, like the member who logged in late last night we know she works late and that she can never make Einherjar, which is fine...however she blatantly skipped Sea afterwards despite knowing that we were going to do that so that she could XP instead. She's a long-time member that we've already gotten a decent amount of shit for including a Kirin's Osode, and now she's in line for W.Legs. We know she'll somehow manage to make Kirin, yet she can't make other events scheduled at the same time.

This is our huge issue, people who have crazy RL schedules and can't make any events because the sky is falling and OMFG...yet they can make the one that drops what they want. This is why we quit announcing exactly what events we are doing when, just the nights that we have events.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Remember to make your "late comer" policy complicated enough that you don't shaft people you actually need. For instance, there's a big difference between someone dragging their feet to come to something, and someone who logged on right after work to help out.

Last night, for instance, I logged 3 hrs into the Hakutaku run for my LS. Obviously, I'm some kind of horrible person here deserving of a kick from the ls. I've just spent 5 hrs in the sun dismantling stages/rigging downtown, then picked my 'rents up at the airport, spent 1/2 hr waiting on AAA to come help unlock my car door so I can drive them home, showered, and logged on. There were 3 runs left after I finally got there, and we were down to about 10-12 people at the time. However late I was, I was still needed and useful to the ls at this point. Did I ask first? You bet, I made sure they were doing more than one run and that they actually needed me there because it's about a 20 minute walk in, either way.

Never make your policies so simplistic that you shaft the people who come in late, because the way EGLS members like to leave early for the most BS of excuses, you need the late guys almost as much as you need the people you start with. Pro-rate points based on the time you were present, maybe give a bonus to people who can stay the entire run, whatever. But make sure that you don't try those "if you're more than 5 mins late you don't get anything" policies. These are the things that cause your longer farming events to be cut short due to lack of people. If you know you're going to be late, and all you get is a penalty or the shaft, most of us won't even bother to log on period.

My LS doesn't do points, and on SMN and WHM mains I need an Ohat like a lobotomy, the ability to join in and help/make fun of people was enough incentive to come. For others it might not be. Be careful that you don't set the standards for the LS too unreasonable.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

I don't think I really need to explain what part of that scenario is absolutely fucking retarded.

Please! :-D Explain!

Srsly tho, have you thought about bringing in new people?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Part of the issue at the moment is that several of the people only have like 1 piece of gear I can bump them on since they're the only person with it listed. Tonight's Limbus will decide the fate for 2 members, if they aren't there they'll be bumped heavily. 2 other members are currently on 'say another goddamn thing and I'll break your pearl' status, and over half the others are just on my bad side for being greedy and/or stupid. Out of 25~ members I can think of maybe 8 at the moment who aren't on my shitlist.

We also have the member who is on trial who says "I don't want to come since I can't lot"...I don't think I really need to explain what part of that scenario is absolutely fucking retarded.

As for the "on trial" person, kick them. If they are on trial and they are already acting up, keeping them in the ls is just asking for trouble imo.

The problem with being a sac is that you get to see the worst side in people. Imo, everyone is greedy to a certain degree. Everyone wants equips and everyone thinks that there is at least one person that got something, they thought they should have gotten, before them.

I can put up with the mildly greedy person but when you cross that line, then you are on my shit list. Like a person that levels a job they can't stand and then wants uber equips for it even though they don't want to play it really. They usually never come to Limbus but suddenly they start coming because they want the homan or nash drops. Even though they have started coming, its only once every four times we go in. So again, sporadically. Then we do the boss, equips drop, and they take a piece over people that have been coming religiously and actually want to play their job. And there is nothing you can do because they have "connections".

So, question.

Is attendance to all LS events mandatory or something?

I don't know how your shell is run, but from the social shells I've been in, they had alot of subshells (Dynamis, Limbus, Sea, Sky, most everything else) if you were say in the Dynamis shell, you weren't expected to be in the Limbus/Sea/Sky activities, even though most of the people on the main social LS participated in all of the events.

If you were signed up for one of the sub/event LS though, you were expected to attend the events for that particular LS. So yeah, the fur would fly if you were in the Dynamis shell and skipped an event because you didn't want to do a particular area, or wanted to exp or something else instead.

In our HNM, you can not be in another shell besides a social shell. If you want to join and already have a static for lets say Limbus or something, it has to be stated and cleared before you are approved. Those are the only people that can get away with it. Otherwise, all ls events are mandatory. If you are in game during a scheduled event, then you are at it.

[Losrase]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Yep its time to do something. If you don't want to kick people impose some type of penalty. Give out a warning or 2 and then let the person know they were knocked down a spot in line for whatever equip they wanted. Next time it will be 2 spots down. Or if you are going to kill Ultima/Omega for Nash/Homan tell the person they can't go (as long as you have enough people) so then they won't have a chance to lot. Hit them where it hurts, everyone wants to be rewarded so take away the reward.

I wish that we would keep a official attendance record. In the private section, put down every persons name that was at the event start and note if people logged off right before/after the event. I actually do this for certain events but just in my notebook at home.

My old sky LS did exactly what you said including the attendance/point/demerit record on the website. This way people can see how they are doing and what happens to their spot in line when they become flakey.

[Vyuru]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

So, question.

Is attendance to all LS events mandatory or something?

I don't know how your shell is run, but from the social shells I've been in, they had alot of subshells (Dynamis, Limbus, Sea, Sky, most everything else) if you were say in the Dynamis shell, you weren't expected to be in the Limbus/Sea/Sky activities, even though most of the people on the main social LS participated in all of the events.

If you were signed up for one of the sub/event LS though, you were expected to attend the events for that particular LS. So yeah, the fur would fly if you were in the Dynamis shell and skipped an event because you didn't want to do a particular area, or wanted to exp or something else instead.

[Callisto]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Part of the issue at the moment is that several of the people only have like 1 piece of gear I can bump them on since they're the only person with it listed. Tonight's Limbus will decide the fate for 2 members, if they aren't there they'll be bumped heavily. 2 other members are currently on 'say another goddamn thing and I'll break your pearl' status, and over half the others are just on my bad side for being greedy and/or stupid. Out of 25~ members I can think of maybe 8 at the moment who aren't on my shitlist.

We also have the member who is on trial who says "I don't want to come since I can't lot"...I don't think I really need to explain what part of that scenario is absolutely fucking retarded.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Yep its time to do something. If you don't want to kick people impose some type of penalty. Give out a warning or 2 and then let the person know they were knocked down a spot in line for whatever equip they wanted. Next time it will be 2 spots down. Or if you are going to kill Ultima/Omega for Nash/Homan tell the person they can't go (as long as you have enough people) so then they won't have a chance to lot. Hit them where it hurts, everyone wants to be rewarded so take away the reward.

I wish that we would keep a official attendance record. In the private section, put down every persons name that was at the event start and note if people logged off right before/after the event. I actually do this for certain events but just in my notebook at home.

[Callisto]

Re: Fun with Endgame!

Actual events are going well for us lately, we're killing things and they're dropping, which is good, but the majority of our members are being as absolutely flakey and douchebaggy as possible this week.

I'm trying hard to not kick people because we're a small shell, and you can't do events without members, but people are receiving multiple warnings about stupid shit and then still continuing to do it, and I'm kinda running out of recourse options.