1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

[Ojofer]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Kinda funny the Lead man on the game says Nin is a fine tank. An that we need to rely on the party and other jobs to help us out. That right there cracks me up...

Sorry to say bro, but it's true, hence the reason why I had to solo blm from lvl 40 to 75... ninja doesn't cut it as a tank. PLD can hold hate and survive a blast. I play both NIN and PLD and for lower lvls NIN is way more fun to tank with, PLD isn't but the roles swap when you get to higher lvls... Don't get me wrong, I rather a ninja tank Byakko and some other sky gods but PLD will always be the main man up front. A NIN without tools is pretty much a thf with low EVA... Ninja needs a boost to make it a little better.

Maybe if you lower Utsusemi: Ni lvl to lets say, 32 maybe, a War could be a great option for tanking at lvl 64, of course you'd need another War to help out but hey, who said that isn't possible? There's always a War that wants to party. Remember when Warrior was the only option we had for tanking when FFXI first came out? Think about that? Things have changed, yes, but the fact that people don't take risks annoys the living $#1+ out of me.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I really have to wonder where these "we need to make NIN better" folks are coming out of the woodworks. There were plenty of NINs happy to talk shit about PLDs well before Reprisal came out and Reprisal was really just icing on the cake to what had been a cumalative number of internal and external adjustmnet to PLD.

Some of the adjustments weren't even exclusively for PLD, they were just a beneficiary. Sanction/Sigil Refresh, Auto Refresh, Parade Gorget, Hercules Ring, Limbus, Turban, the update to Rampart, Swift Belt, Pianissimo, Devotion, Chivalry, Aspir Samba - I didn't see NINs all Gloom and Doom when this stuff came out, I saw NINs talking shit about PLD.

Oh, but Reprisal is the straw that broke the camel's back. I honestly didn't expect NIN to be the one joining RDMs in the "Gimmie Shinies" chorus.

Is there any other job out there that has it really, really good on invites and endgame functionality that would like to cry about thier situation?

I'll go find the creek so you can cry and turn it into a river.

[Ojofer]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Everything comes down to the fact that people need to take more risks with jobs and allow experimentation. Some may say "if you want to experiment, do it on your own time, not in my party" and I highly disagree with that simply because, no matter how good you become after practicing, closed minded players wont allow innovation to parties. I was very impressed with a whm/nin when I was lvling PLD from 30 -40, who was our main healer and was also a dd in the party. She kept to her main job of keeping me and the party alive while at the same time she was dealing very good damage. At that lvl whm can hand out some damage, probably not as high as a war or what not, but when the party is willing to allow a person to experiment, the game becomes even more fun. Thanks to the introduction of new jobs such as DNC, having a whm/nin main heal and dd is very acceptable thanx to the DNC ability to help heal party members.

The fact is, FFXI is a game and it's supposed to be fun but when it all becomes cookie cutter and redundant, people lose interest in the most essential part of the game which is lvling new jobs. I always welcome new combinations when I build parties, but of course, don't come to me as a DRK/WHM and expect me to let you main heal... I'll kill you in the FACE!

[Feenicks]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I always welcome new combinations when I build parties, but of course, don't come to me as a DRK/WHM and expect me to let you main heal... I'll kill you in the FACE!

See, this is the clincher though, when it comes to dealing with experimentation. Where is the border between innovation and idiocy? You may think that a WHM/NIN doing main heal and substandard DD is innovative and brilliant but I think it's not so practical since it just means more TP for the mob.

[Kailea]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

See, this is the clincher though, when it comes to dealing with experimentation. Where is the border between innovation and idiocy? You may think that a WHM/NIN doing main heal and substandard DD is innovative and brilliant but I think it's not so practical since it just means more TP for the mob.

Really its all just opinion when you get down to it..... but even so there is that line between, experimental job combo and "WTF are you doing" even if everyone's line is different ;p

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Everything comes down to the fact that people need to take more risks with jobs and allow experimentation. Some may say "if you want to experiment, do it on your own time, not in my party" and I highly disagree with that simply because, no matter how good you become after practicing, closed minded players wont allow innovation to parties.

OK, so you're saying that the guy who has only a couple of hours to play a day should subject himself to constant experimentation instead of just taking what clearly works and progressing a lot more easily?

He has every right to tell you to go experiment on your own time and not in his PT, because after your first time to 75 and you have a ton of different goals to meet for one job, the magic of experimentation starts to fade. EXP goes from a journey to this big grind that gets in the way of meeting goals especially for players with multiple jobs.

[Ojofer]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

you have a good point bbq, but as I said, this is a game and actually allowing others to join your party with a rare combination (note I said rare and not stupid) is up to you (the party leader) I don't get mad at anyone for saying NO YOU CAN'T JOIN! I have a problem with people who sit for those so called 5 hours of nothingness looking for a party and just because the 6th member isn't a job they want to party with because zmog the rdm/nin wants to DD and Support. It's all about having fun. If you don't have fun trying new things, that's ok, you have your opinion and I'm not going to try to force that on ya.

WHM/NIN with the right gear and against the right mob (birds for example) are great DD's since you can chain them quickly and Hexastrike or Black Halo can be used to SC with DRK or WAR making really good battle buddies...

Well, I'll just say this in my defense, that is the reason I get together with friends from my LS to have fun and get fast EXP, great exp that actually feels like fun instead of just sitting at your desk clicking the cure button and the haste button...

Killing birds in Baf Thickets with this setup, RDM/NIN, WHM/NIN, WAR/NIN, DRK/THF, NIN/WAR, SAM/THF having the RDM pull, so much fun, quick EXP and very successful. Of course you can't do this everywhere, but when you are willing to have fun and not take this game as a *JOB* you can come up with some interesting things. I have a pretty stressful job as it is, and I don't intend to make a game another thing to be stressed over. RELAX, sit back and enjoy!

[jenova_9]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

ya so many sub nin. it's like they are too paranoid about taking hits. then again, most jobs can't tank anyway. but even some DD sub it.

[Hyrist]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

OK, so you're saying that the guy who has only a couple of hours to play a day should subject himself to constant experimentation instead of just taking what clearly works and progressing a lot more easily?

He has every right to tell you to go experiment on your own time and not in his PT, because after your first time to 75 and you have a ton of different goals to meet for one job, the magic of experimentation starts to fade. EXP goes from a journey to this big grind that gets in the way of meeting goals especially for players with multiple jobs.

While I agree with your stance, and understand the point of view, the opposite spectrum is also true, and purely within their rights as well.

A person who's endgame goal is not to level multiple jobs to 75 and have max merits for each job may still view EXP as not only just a grind, but a bore as well, and wish, within their own limited means, to experiment with different approaches.

By no means is it a sin to just disagree peacefully and go their own ways, nor is it right to constant harassment or insult someone who experiments with a way you disagree with. This, after all, is how new tactics are formed to become 'tried and true.'

Both methods of play are capable of co-existing on the same game, and only conflict when circumstances force those two polar opposites to directly collide where they disagree, and neither agree to compromise. It is in these cases that both players are at fault, when considering they both have the option of working to create a static to meet their individual goals.

A player who strives for the quickest exp/merit per hour cannot expect a sublime performance from a stranger in the crowd, nor expect the exact same method or role from the job. Likewise, a player who's refining a method that is not 'tried and true' and runs a high risk of slowing the party down so he can get his bearings also should not expect to be accepted in using an unorthodox method when partying with strangers.

Being more flexible with your approach to find the 'happy medium' can often be more profitable for both. And in situations where it necessarily has to be one or the other, it might just be fair to let luck decide. After all, in a situation where there is no alternative, neither will get what they want if they decide to be offensive and stubborn.

When testing what's not necessarily kosher with everyone, I do my best to be courteous about it. Then again, I also avoid those that would be heavily offended by it.

In the end, the majority of the players don't care either way. It's rare that I encounter someone who's elitist enough to turn down a party invite or bicker, and those that do simply don't get invited again. The idea that every party must earn 20k/hr to be worthwhile is just the smoke and mirrors that players put up to try to better their argument.

[Lunaryn]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Hyrist tries to take a balanced look here, but I can't help but be struck by the way that it seems to suggest that anyone with an opinion on how xp parties should work needs to stay away from pickups and just static. Avoiding pickups and just forming a static has become the first (and often only) solution proffered to any xp woes, and a community that used to have a relatively coherent sense of how they wanted xp to work (to the point you could figure out without too much hassle what amount of variation from cookie-cutter combinations you could get away with, and what amount of variation really did need a static or at least forming your own parties) has now reached an uneasy divide in which those who see xp as a way of training yourself to be better at your job and those who see it as a creative outlet are severely underrepresented, and the main tensions are between the pro-efficiency "how dare you gimp my xp/hr" faction and the laissez-faire "don't tell me how to do my job"/"lolEverything" faction.

I'm at work so I can't really finish this post as cleanly and coherently as I'd like, but I don't think that the attitude of "if you have standards, make a static" is particularly healthy for the community at large...

[Raydeus]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

Soloing/Campaign is the way to go for me. If only SE eliminated the xp penalty from NPCs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I tend to avoid the whole concept of staticing for EXP because I personally feel that diminishes your ability to learn your job and to adapt to certain situations. You're partying in a fixed environment with the only variable being the mobs themselves, which isn't always enough.

Had a friend that duoed SCH to 60 recently. While I'm sure it was safe and fun, it came at the expense of being able not only enjoy the evolution of the job in the levels prior, but also at the cost of enfeebling/enhancing skill and playing the job capably in PTs. I PTed with them in a merit PT where they dinged 75, it was like they were still learning how to function in the PT. Strategems were being wasted on nukes when they could have been focusing on Accession Stoneskin/Phalanx mainly, which would have freed up our WHM to Haste the melee a lot more.

Its not so much that I'm against someone trying something new things in a party setting as I'm against people forcing experimentation on people who just wanted to get EXP as fast as possible. You gotta ask people about this stuff because this is thier time to play, too.

But if Hyrist wishes to be a melee RDM and we can get the people together from LBR for a merit PT tonight, I won't object to it. Its just this being Odin there are no real garuntees about gettng the bird camp >.>;

[Hyrist]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I'm at work so I can't really finish this post as cleanly and coherently as I'd like, but I don't think that the attitude of "if you have standards, make a static" is particularly healthy for the community at large...

Perhaps if the implication were to be clarified into "If you have strict standards, form a static. Would be a better solution. This was the theme I was going for, not some totalitarian formation of having to form an exp/merit static just because you're trying to accomplish something. But either being flexible, or finding a group that agrees with your system would really benefit you in either case.

Pitty I missed Kitten's invitation. Though I'm rather picky in the situations I allow myself to test my own personal melee capabilities, (I realize that the RDM front line performance curve is high and I'm not confident that my mostly outdated AH gear can amount to anything truly effective. Also I'm lacking a WS set right now.) I would have liked to have taken up on his offer in order to see where I actually stood in difficulties.

However currently I'm duoing with my fiance to get up several needed subjobs up to par as well, and will be involved in doing so for quite some time it seems.

Still, if we've got some free time in there, or feel like taking a break off low leveling, I'd like to do that, just for fun, and to see what combinations we could make work. I too believe that experience parties are more than just conforming to the 'best' set ups for a situation to get the most exp, as it is a continual learning expression in modifying available set ups to become functional.

Summed up: "Experience" for me is more than just a few points that improve my character's stats. They're supposed to hone my ability to adapt to situations as a player too. Narrowing my situations and my choices down really hampers that one aspect that I heavily value.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

He fears my gears

[Ojofer]

Re: 1up Super Interviews FFXI's top dog. New avatars/summons coming!!!

I tend to avoid the whole concept of staticing for EXP because I personally feel that diminishes your ability to learn your job and to adapt to certain situations. You're partying in a fixed environment with the only variable being the mobs themselves, which isn't always enough.

I agree with this statement and I also would like to say that sometimes, the jobs that are available to party with aren't always the ones you need to form a "standard setup", that's where I try to emphasize that allowing yourself to adjust a sub job of one or two party members to make things work should be the option.

That's where the whole "I had to support heal and DD as a whm" came to play. It was a trial and win situation that thankfully, the party was willing to experiment and they also allowed themselves to learn more about their jobs and what can be done in a not so normal setup. I was serious about getting exp to meet my goal, since I merit with either blm or whm to lvl my blm spells, but at the same time I just had fun with it.

Summed up: "Experience" for me is more than just a few points that improve my character's stats. They're supposed to hone my ability to adapt to situations as a player too. Narrowing my situations and my choices down really hampers that one aspect that I heavily value.

This is exactly what I meant to say but I suck at getting a point across lol.