FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

[Murphie]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

I won't be sending anyone there anymore. But I can't help it if other people do.

As for the success of a BG Wiki? It's far too soon to tell. I'm interested to see how it turns out, regardless. A wiki requires a tremendous amount of work from a lot of people who are dedicated to creating the content. Whether people will stick to it, or lose interest after the first flush of activity is a mystery. It could go either way.

The latter does seem more likely, though. Which is too bad.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

You are forced into the issue, the same as Alla mods have been they have done what the ffxio mods have in this issue, not voiced their opinions kept to "undecided" and full filled their duty as mods.

But just because I have to remained unbaised towards the sources of the shit doesn't mean I willingly ignore which side the stink is coming from.

God that sounded too Judge Judy for my liking.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

I'm a bit upset some some things, but first, what I am happy about:
+ FFXIclopedia will stick around, despite failing to meet fund raising goal, and despite the fact the guy (Ganiman) who was going to make up for the short fall lost his job and probably couldn't afford to do that anymore.
+ Ganiman, Gahoo, and Mierin will be employed by Wikia--they will be paid to do what they did for free before at much cost to personal time and effort. I'm especially happy regarding Gahoo, who's been an active editor, and who usually performed in a fair and neutral manner as far as I can tell.
+ FFXIclopedia will stick around. Yes, I wrote that already, but it's worth stating twice. This is the best general resource for FFXI players--it's where we here at Dreams send new players and veterans alike when they have questions.

Things I'm not as happy about:
- Lack of forthright communication from Ganiman and Co. Seriously, half the storm could've been avoided if those yahoos just posted what will happen and why a little sooner.
- Hacking of FFXIclopedia--I was doing CoP 6.4 and other things last night and needed info. To Hackers/Crackers with a grudge against Ganiman and Co.: Don't bring down the most important FFXI resource just because you're mad. Please. -_-#
- I think Ganiman and Co. has the right to sell the domain, goodwill, and etc. (This is separate from their salary--they are definitely entitled to salary if they continue to provide service to Wikia.) HOWEVER, the only reason that the domain is worth anything is because PEOPLE LIKE ME CONTRIBUTE OUR TIME AND ENERGY TO KEEP FFXICLOPEDIA INFORMATIVE AND UPDATED. (Well, OK, I'm a minor contributor, but still.) It's a slap in the face to say they have the rights to do with the domain as they wish, even if it is true.

* * *

That's about it on happiness/unhappiness regarding FFXIclopedia.

I'll continue to contribute to its content under Wikia; I did it before the sale because it helps the community, and moving it to Wikia does not change that.

As for BG wiki, I'm rather doubtful about that. I had trouble with lack of neutral voice from other FFXIclopedia contributors, and even Gahoo (whom I like) didn't seem to care about proper citation on sources.

BG wiki would likely only do worse. And, given how important "attitude" is for surviving on BG's forum, those useless posturing could easily carry over into their wiki. A BG wiki will be painful to read.

There only relatively small number of people who are motivated to add and maintain information to community project like a wiki. If you look the "recent changes" on FFXIclopedia, you'd see most people are mostly just interested in maintaining a personal page ("My 4th 75 job!"). BG starting a wiki will siphon off a good number of those real contributors.

Given how a BG wiki will likely turn out and given the split in the community of contributors it will create, I consider BG wiki to be a bad move. â—€/sighâ–¶

[Omni]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

I know plenty of what I'm talking about. You seem to be the delusional one (or a bit confused at what I'm trying to say).

So you're saying with no money loss... that hes going to get put in jail for a non violent crime? Yea... go back to studying. You're going to need it.

You can embezzle 40k from a company, goto the police station and admit to it. Get convicted of felony grand theft and still not serve jail time.

You know how I know? An old employee did this to the company I work at. She isnt getting any jail time. She'll have parole and restitution but actually jail time? no.

So you're telling me this script kiddie is gonna get jail time over this?

You must be confusing 'technically can he get jail time?' or 'did he break the law' with in real world practice, will he get jail time?

Again, he's not getting jail time or even going to get prosecuted.

[Sevv]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/vie...hp?f=2&t=23599
He was of course legally privy to all this information but just wanted to look like he wasn't part if it right?
The questionable method those were obtained by was brought up by those defending Taj. The entire thing is circumstantial, but the circumstances point to people doing thing's they aren't supposed to.
No one is going to investigate computer crimes if no money was lost or exchanged in the commission of the crime.

I said prove he did the "hacking" not prove he posted, please insert one dollar and try again.

Let me know when you've interned in a US Attorney's office for several months, and then you might understand a bit what's going on.
Seriously. Mentally insane. So insane that I've managed to get a Master's Degree in Social Work (If that's not mentally insane, I don't know what is)
Actually, it's United States Code, which is federal law. The punishment is criminal, not civil.
And I stand by my statement, if he gets caught, he will.
The only thing comical is you arguing against something you know nothing about.

The whole point is more to the fact you are looking at he could go to jail if every step is met, and most people see that they are not going to make all the steps.

[Rylan Hart]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

No one is going to investigate computer crimes if no money was lost or exchanged in the commission of the crime.

If he does file a complaint, which is likely, the feds have to at least make an effort of investigating.

And money was lost in this manner. He hasn't earned it yet, but the loss of the Goodwill of his company by this debacle means that a lot of people who used to visit the website, won't any more.

I want to make things clear hear. I don't support Ganiman or FFXIclopedia any more. I don't condone what Taj did either, as he did violate US federal law.

[Amele]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/vie...hp?f=2&t=23599
He was of course legally privy to all this information but just wanted to look like he wasn't part if it right?
The questionable method those were obtained by was brought up by those defending Taj. The entire thing is circumstantial, but the circumstances point to people doing thing's they aren't supposed to.
No one is going to investigate computer crimes if no money was lost or exchanged in the commission of the crime.

oh, I don't think anyone is denying someone did something.

the question is if anyone can prove it was *taj* and that he didn't just receive a gift of information from some third party / stumble across it at his local internet cafe.

so you can believe he did it; or not. but it's highly unlikely any of this will be successfully pinned to him even if it does go to court.

(edit: yes, I believe he did it. no I don't think he should win a medal. I still thanked him for the information.)

[Sevv]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Please read what I say, I admin an FFXI-related site, the matter was forced into my lap. I don't get a choice in avoiding the issue, I have to address in within my ranks. Some of those people include BG and FFXIlopedia members.

Yes, I know you are a mod over on LBR. We all do it's general knowledge by know. Especially in the whole Murphie vs. BBQ and Murphie vs. Mods threads. The one were I defended you to have people at least allow you to leave the hospital before attacking you or going at you.

You are forced into the issue, the same as Alla mods have been they have done what the ffxio mods have in this issue, not voiced their opinions kept to "undecided" and full filled their duty as mods.

The comment on not dealing with the bg issue was more to the fact any time that you deal with any sort of Bg related issue, it consists in you taking a shot at BG. You just have to follow your board rules, ffxio is not your ranks so you really don't have to adress it here.

[Skoal]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

So insane that I've managed to get a Master's Degree in Social Work (If that's not mentally insane, I don't know what is)

After the budget cuttings Social Work went through, that is insane.

[Rylan Hart]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Dude, youre out your mind.

its a rhetorical question because you've got a ridiculous pipe dream.

It's nice and all that you're quoting some civil procedure law school text but really...

I edited my post, he's not going to jail.

this is almost comical now.

Let me know when you've interned in a US Attorney's office for several months, and then you might understand a bit what's going on.

Dude, youre out your mind.

Seriously. Mentally insane. So insane that I've managed to get a Master's Degree in Social Work (If that's not mentally insane, I don't know what is)

It's nice and all that you're quoting some civil procedure law school text but really...

Actually, it's United States Code, which is federal law. The punishment is criminal, not civil.

I edited my post, he's not going to jail.

this is almost comical now.

And I stand by my statement, if he gets caught, he will.

The only thing comical is you arguing against something you know nothing about.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Prove the fact he did it and You win, if not then drop it.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/vie...hp?f=2&t=23599

He was of course legally privy to all this information but just wanted to look like he wasn't part if it right?

The questionable method those were obtained by was brought up by those defending Taj. The entire thing is circumstantial, but the circumstances point to people doing thing's they aren't supposed to.

That doesn't matter.
Taj clearly obtained information from a protected computer, violating 18 USC 1030(a)(2)(C).
The big IF here, is IF he gets caught, which I hope he doesn't. But Taj DID break federal law in obtaining this information.

No one is going to investigate computer crimes if no money was lost or exchanged in the commission of the crime.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Leave it alone then if you don't want to deal with it right?

Please read what I say, I admin an FFXI-related site, the matter was forced into my lap. We don't get a choice in avoiding the issue, we have to address it in within our ranks. Some of those people include BG and FFXIlopedia members.

Its not a fun thing to be dealing with right now.

[Amele]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

If that's what you intended, you failed miserably.

is he jefferson? no. is obviously a rhetorical devil's advocate to counter people claiming that I was comparing him to our founding fathers. it's a pretty standard rhetorical device actually.

So if I were to form an opinion on The Count of Monte Cristo, and publish that opinion, in order to use quotes to support that opinion I would have to quote the entire work in order for you not to think they were out of context? You're entire post was not about this exact subject so there is no reason why I would have to quote the whole thing just to talk about the last point.

no. but you should quote more than a sentence, and in either case it's not acceptable to form an opinion of a work and cite the Cliffs Notes version of the work as your reference, regardless of whether you read the original (see: quoting tl;dr) again; basic.

apparently, having respect for someone and sympathizing with their cause means pedestal around here

That's pretty much the definition of putting someone on a pedestal.

Personally I agree with this sentiment here
and I don't admire or idolise Taj, I respect him. (and yes, there is a difference between respect and idolatry.)
but since it seems pretty clear you and I disagree on* the definition of the colloquial phrase we may as well drop this one either way (I respect your right to think I've put Taj on a pedestal and am satisfied with what I've been able to say; you're welcome to say your piece too, if you wish to further discuss it.)

Yes, TD Ameritrade hired morons to manage how their backups are handled, but a Wiki admin knows all.

hyperbole ill fits your argument; IQ 80 and sub highschool degree is hardly a moron; it's a 15 year old who's a little below average working his first job at a movie theater. (which involves filing reel-to-reel tapes.)

and you don't need to "know all" to know you should have multiple passwords. that's "how to use the internet 101" and anyone not recommending it to people is doing everyone a disservice on the level of not suggesting someone lock their car in a bad neighborhood.

Dirty little secret - Most people running websites don't know their ass from their elbows, this includes wiki admins.

dirty little secret: most people capable of passing a CAPTCHA test (which is generally necessary at some level in the process chain of obtaining servers setting up a domain and loading content) is capable of remembering more than one continuous string of at least 4 characters.

and again; my statement is merely that a sufficient subset of sysops are sufficiently capable of having more than one password for important things that getting their password to a game wiki will not immediately give you their password to their personal email address not a sure thing. (hence; gamble.)

No, your statement was anyone who can setup a wiki knows enough to follow good security practices. A monkey can set up a wiki so the statement is false.

A monkey can be taught good security practices (in fact many animals practice better security practices than a typical human.) and I challenge you to show me a member of the ape family that has setup a wiki successfully if you're going to keep splitting hairs with me.

you're going to make track down the quote train? ok. done.

(Amele) you could push through the wiki and then gamble the gmail password is the same.
(Mhurron) they don't usually call a sure thing a gamble
(Amele) anyone with the capability to set up a wiki and a forum knows enough about internet security to know that you use at least a couple different passwords (if not every one unique) so yes, it's a gamble to assume that the wiki admin password would be the same as the gmail password.
(Mhurron)Ya you go on living in that dream world where people need to know things to make services available on the internet, or is setting up a Wiki more difficult then managing TD- Ameritrade's backup's?

(pretty sure the rest is on this page)

whether I made a blanket statement or not; the general assertion is the same. (I'll drop into formal language here) there exists a subset of group Sysop that knows enough about the internet to know you don't make all your passwords the same.

I posit (implicitly by generalization to the whole) that this subset is sufficiently large that it is not a guarantee (re: sure thing vs. gamble) that the wiki password will match the gmail password.

You attempt to argue with me that untrained monkeys and incompetent entry level employees are more capable on average than a typical sysop (general statement by analogy) so, since you're so convinced that most Sysops are either a) that stupid or b) that complacent. please provide support to your argument beyond the theoretical single case of ganiman et al.

[Sevv]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

We can have the he is going to jail discussion when/if a case is filed. Deal?

[Omni]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Sorry -- I hate rhetorical questions, so please don't ask questions if you don't want an answer.
A DA or District Attorney wouldn't, as their jurisdiction would be limited, since this would be a federal case. A US Attorney, at the recommendation of the Secret Service, or the Federal Bureau of Investigation will, if
1. A Complaint is filed
2. The SS or FBI can provided enough evidence to the US Attorney that he did it.
3. The US Attorney (or deputy) thinks they would win the case.

Dude, youre out your mind.

its a rhetorical question because you've got a ridiculous pipe dream.

It's nice and all that you're quoting some civil procedure law school text but really...

I edited my post, he's not going to jail.

this is almost comical now.