HQed abjurations

[Sevv]

Re: HQed abjurations

Oh, and Sev's post was perfectly clear to me. Not sure what's with the snidy comments.

meh they wanted a wall of text so, I took more then 1 min. to type it up.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: HQed abjurations

Ninjas have several +move speed options; paladins very few (maybe no other ones, I forget).

Which movement speed options do ninjas have out of interest other than their AF feet which only work at night compared to the paladin's choices of crimson legs which work all the time and caitiff's socks which are very restricted in their use? Both jobs can use powder boots but for the purpose of the discussion flee isn't really a useful kiting tool. Discounting flee items, both jobs have one movement enhancing item, difference is the ninjas is twice as fast but only works half the time.

Oh, and Sev's post was perfectly clear to me. Not sure what's with the snidy comments.

[Aeolus]

Re: HQed abjurations

End of the day BBQ's linkshells lotting system allows him to lot on them if they drop. They will have already defeated Kirin and will be able to do so again. No reason why any other jobs really need the Abj. first in this case. If the linkshell did actually prioritize jobs it would be worth arguing about.

[Karinya]

Re: HQed abjurations

Crimson Cuisses can't be worn by ninjas. How much kiting ninjas do or don't do has no relevance to what you should do with your LS's w.leg drop - you definitely shouldn't give them to a ninja (with no other jobs). (And by the way, I've known LS's that have gone something like 2/30 on w.leg; it seems to be his rarest drop, much rarer than osode.)

Ninjas have several +move speed options; paladins very few (maybe no other ones, I forget). That's why it's so useful for paladins - even though they may not kite often, when they do, it's better than almost any other single piece of gear in the game. Of course ninjas can kite many mobs. But I have found that having only ninja kiters makes the mages, rangers, chi blasting monks, etc. much more vulnerable. What passes for a high enmity setup among ninjas isn't quite in the same league as a kiting PLD's enmity setup (and unlike exp, the ninja can't make up the difference by dealing more damage). The PLDs may die more, but the BLMs die less, which can be a handy tradeoff.

The rest of the stats are really nothing to write home about, for any job. They will never be more than a minor boost over whatever else you would have worn in that slot. (The same is true of HQ vs. NQ abj pieces - if the cost of the cursed-1 is at all relevant to your level of wealth, get the NQ; you can always get another abjuration if you become richer later.)

[Sevv]

Re: HQed abjurations

OK, it seems that people want me to retype my argument so they can disagree. Originally BBQ had asked if Blood Finger Gauntlets had a noticeable effect over the Crimson Finger gauntlets. Mainly the argument was is 1 point of defense, 2 hp, 2mp, 1 Racc, 1 Ratt, and 1 Dark Magic Skill worth a extra 1.18M gil.

Now I responded with what, an old Ranger in my ls who had used both the NQ Crimson and the HQ Blood Finger Gauntlets had told me. He use to swear that he could really see a noticeable difference in the damage output from the HQ.

I also made a comment about the use of Crimson Cuisses (aka W. Legs). Some how the post was derailed and became a conversation about how priorities/use of the Crimson Cuisses should be used. Now for the rewrite of my argument for you Aeolus.


First let us look at the gear in question: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Crimson_Cuisses

The key reason people want this piece is the Movement Speed +12% . Now all the jobs who can use generally want this piece of gear (free striders). In most endgame shells priorities are set by how the gear would help the LS not someone's epeen. Red Mage, Paladin, Dark Knight, Ranger, Dragoon, Blue Mage, and Corsair can all use. Now if your ls is an End Game LS not just a Sky Ls the difference is bigger in the use.

Paladin should get these first, (within reason) Paladin tend to kite more then any other job listed. Yes I know Ninja's in ls kite mobs as well; hell I better know I'm a 75 Ninja. Paladins will be called upon to kite everything from Kirin to King Behemoth (not to count out the KSNM and Limbus versions of KB). Paladin's with Crimson Cuisses will kite a great deal better and will benefit from the movement speed +12% more then any of the other jobs.

Red Mages tend to in my own personal experience the second priority on the Crimson Cuisses. The reason that I have noticed and agree with is, the fact Red Mages are great kiters as well. Tho they may not kite in most ls regularly, a Red Mage kiter can save your ass. Red Mage with gravity on the target mob (non-resistant) and a pair of Crimson Cuisses, can tend to kite all day until the Ls arrives at the NM/HNM or regroups from a wipe, (yes I know that the Red Mage would have to survive the wipe in the first place).

Rangers and Corsairs tend to get a shared third or a third and fourth priority set up on these. Both of these job function similar in the need for these. Both Ranger and Corsairs being used to claim/pull in Sky/Endgame shells. In a pull the Crimson Cuisses will help ensure a safer pull for the Ranger or Corsair. Again in my own personal experience I have seen ranger be 3rd priority over Corsair. The reason I have seen being that our Rangers do most of the Claim/Pull, while our Corsairs are buffing.

Now there is always exceptions to priorities, like for instance your Paladin has just joined and your Ranger turned Corsair has been helping in the ls for years (it should go without saying, but had to state it). Or the fact your higher tier job causes a good deal of drama.



hopefully this was better for you.


Edit:

Oh and to Kristeena’s argument about the reason, BG/Gove/Siste/Fl all camp Tiamat. You couldn’t interpret my post saying that the Crimson Cuisses would be absolute shit, if the lacked the Movement speed +12%. They would be another Crimson Greaves, which not too many people care about. That’s what I was saying; also another big reason a lot of Ls camp Tiamat is the Herald’s Gaiters pull a good price when sold.

Here is the link to the BG post Kris was talking about: http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/vie...=18524&start=0

[Kirsteena]

Re: HQed abjurations

Can you type what you said out again in non-lazy/normal english speak as I dont think I agree with your argument? Then again Im not even sure if I understand what your saying.

I'll second this. I'm feeling too bitter/snarky at the moment with something else that I don't have the energy to translate.

[Aeolus]

Re: HQed abjurations

Can you type what you said out again in non-lazy/normal english speak as I dont think I agree with your argument? Then again Im not even sure if I understand what your saying.

[Sevv]

Re: HQed abjurations

I lazy speak on this forum tho seeing im usually doing reports and check back here every now and then lol.

[Kirsteena]

Re: HQed abjurations

Sorry, my brain obviously couldn't interpret what you were saying because I have been working in English all day, not text/AOL/lazy speak...

[Sevv]

Re: HQed abjurations

Kiting?
That's it?
Maybe the LSes I've been in just do it different than elsewhere, but kiting has the been the sole duty of NIN in most Kirin fights I've experienced and I've seen no real issues with it where movement speed was even needed, especially not gods.

Kris reread this part about how we talked about W legs for kiting... then

you do realise outside the movement speed the peice is shit right? And yes kiting thats the only reason people want them.

Reread that

Plus since COR can't get striders, crim legs are next best thing.

a rng in my old ls swears by them he has both nq and hq lol (dropped nq ofcourse) but says there is a real boost in hq (not that i see it). And cor getting crimson legs is a pip dream omgwtfbbq the prioty on that will put cor near the bottom, for most ls. Pld, Rdm, Rng all above cor easy (yes i know you have a 75rng)

and it just kinda took over the arguement lol. Gave him what i knew about from ppl who have the hq hands. And then comented on the W legs just from what i had seen in my diff ls.

If the movement speed is total shit, why do people camp Tiamat so heavily?
Gaiters are the same movement speed after all. Go to BG and look at the FI/Government/Siste MPKing/cfhing at Tiamat thread to see what it is like. It is down to each ls how they work. And my shell primarily nin kites, but pld and rdm can expect to at some point.

Sev, BBQ was talking about hands, not legs - how did that come up? BBQ, to your original question - as far as I am aware, the hidden affects are not more noticable on HQ over NQ - if you want the minor stat increases, or e-peen, go for HQ, otherwise NQ will serve you very well.

I wasnt saying the movement speed is shit i was saying if u didnt see it if W legs had NO movement speed +12% they would be shit. Ive been in ls its mainly pld kites and been in ls with nin kiters only. And about the bg Tiamat post that shit made me laugh. Been to Tia run before didnt have enough to kill it, when i was in ackz but good fun none the less, sucks to get mpked ethier way, just shows that some people cant deal with others.

[Kirsteena]

Re: HQed abjurations

you do realise outside the movement speed the peice is shit right? And yes kiting thats the only reason people want them.

If the movement speed is total shit, why do people camp Tiamat so heavily?
Gaiters are the same movement speed after all. Go to BG and look at the FI/Government/Siste MPKing/cfhing at Tiamat thread to see what it is like. It is down to each ls how they work. And my shell primarily nin kites, but pld and rdm can expect to at some point.

Sev, BBQ was talking about hands, not legs - how did that come up? BBQ, to your original question - as far as I am aware, the hidden affects are not more noticable on HQ over NQ - if you want the minor stat increases, or e-peen, go for HQ, otherwise NQ will serve you very well.

[Sevv]

Re: HQed abjurations

you do realise outside the movement speed the peice is shit right? And yes kiting thats the only reason people want them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: HQed abjurations

Kiting?

That's it?

Maybe the LSes I've been in just do it different than elsewhere, but kiting has the been the sole duty of NIN in most Kirin fights I've experienced and I've seen no real issues with it where movement speed was even needed, especially not gods.

[Sevv]

Re: HQed abjurations

a shitty pld or not deserves W legs over any job on that list... To kill kirin your ls id kiting him, i know certain ls tp burn him but i doubt Omgwtf's ls is one of them (otherwise i doubt w legs would even be a issue). Plds kite the majority of anything you will fight, so it makes it a 100% easier if you kiter moves 12% faster especially if your doing kirin/KB/limbus kites/KSNM99.

Rdm tends to get second prioty due to the fact of the also tend to be good kiters, they will kite alot more things then any cor/rng/(etc), will. Also god forbid you started to wipe gravity + w legs = enough time to regroup and not lose said NM/God.

3 tier usually goes to Rng alone sometimes Cor added in it really depends on the LS. Personally i would put rng over cor because I have had more exp with them pulling claiming in my ls due to widescan in sky. Not knocking cor i would probably put them fourth on the list.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: HQed abjurations

you do realise for every job that gets a W leg over a pld or rdm you ls wastes a pair of w legs?

I believe any argument that could be made for RDM could be made for COR.

As for PLD, I also see the elemental affinity. HP looks nice but for a PLD, as does DEF, so perhaps a stronger argument there.

Regardless of what's best for any job, point systems are point systems and this is likely the only downside to them. BRD can get a full sky set and its mostly useless outside of osode, but since FFXI endgame guilds run on points systems, a BRD can get a full sky set that's mostly useless to him.

There's tons of Valor and Duelist's sets wasted on terrible PLDs and RDMs in Dynamis. I know a horrible player who has both and never really plays either jobs seiriously. That is a real waste of gear. Duelist's in particular is some of this most highly contested gear.

A good PLD or RDM could benefitted more from them, but she had the points over those good RDM and PLDs, so she now has them and she's no better for it since she doesn't know how to use them.

Useful or not, good player or not, thats the way it is. People will want what they want and endgame is competitive. I may not have done much of it, but when I have done it, that's they way it is. I've seen plenty of gear wasted