trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

[anthonynguyen15]

hello! to every1 in this site, i am a new member of this site. I'm glad i have found this site , it's realy great site to join. i have several question would like to ask SE if can change answer in a good way. but first of all , let me tell every1 about my feeling about march update. i was so please to hear that certain NMs able to pop by trade the rare/ex item to ??? . but i havent done any those yet, i heard alot of ppl from my server saying that march update is really great and helpful yet still competition in our server because those items are still normal ,NOT RARE/EX. so here is my quesiton .

question 1
how come SE didn't make Kraken club, peacock charm, Thief's Knife, pallas's glove and bracelet from NM in upper delkufl tower and ECT..... have 100% drop rate and RARE/EX since it either high lvl NM or HNM , it would take at least 6ppl to 25ppl from lvl70 - lvl75 to kill them ?

i do believe every1 deserve to have a reward after hard Battle. if any1 think i'm demand too much , please feel free to correct me. ur reply alway welcome.

[neighbortaru]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

please do follow the directions for the Ask SE thread.

and yes, i do believe you are asking for too much. if it's a 100% drop, everyone will have it, making the game too easy (which is something SE has repeatedly tried to not do).

[Karinya]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

Restricting the availability of gear won't prevent it from making the game too easy for the people who have it. Therefore, it's not a viable solution to "too powerful" gear. When gear makes the game too easy, either the gear itself needs to be nerfed, or the content needs to be adjusted to deal with it and present a challenge even with the strong gear.

The limited availability of gear isn't what makes a challenging encounter challenging. The best gear in the game won't make Dynamis Lord or Proto-Ultima a pushover; conversely you don't *need* awesome gear to beat them if you know what you're doing (although it certainly can help). By design, gear doesn't have *that* much influence on a character's power in FFXI.


The main reason for low drop rates is, quite simply, to make people do the fights/zones/assaults over and over again to get everything they and their friends want. This keeps them from running out of things to do and quitting the game before SE can develop the next update that gives them something new to do. Every MMO has the problem that content that takes 2 months to design, implement and debug often takes 2 weeks - sometimes less - to figure out how to beat. (To enough eyes, all strategies are obvious.) Thus the designers have to come up with something for players to do to keep them busy, and doing the same fights repeatedly because not everything drops on the first kill/you need multiple drops to get what you want is a very common way of doing this (not just in FFXI, but in all MMOs).

[Malacite]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

By design, gear doesn't have *that* much influence on a character's power in FFXI.

Bull Sh*t. Skill and Gear are almost equally important in a player's performance, with gear having the marginally higher edge IMO.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

By design, gear doesn't have *that* much influence on a character's power in FFXI.

Bull Sh*t. Skill and Gear are almost equally important in a player's performance, with gear having the marginally higher edge IMO.

So are you saying Karinya is wrong or absolutely correct? Seems to me you're both saying the same thing.

Great gear is nice, but really, that gear goes to waste if you don't know how to use it effectively.

Skill > Gear.

Some just have great gear but no skill and they will be outdone by those with skill, whether the skilled player has the great gear or not.

[anthonynguyen15]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

i think kraken club is just like an Optical hat, u're still require a larg group of ppl around lvl70-75 to help u beat the monster to get drop an item. don't u think u r entiltle to earn reward after a hard battle that may or may not cause a lot of death? i'm saying this because i have been camping kraken club and thief's knife over 20 times til i said to myself 'MOTHER****" I HAVE TO GIVE UP, THIS IS NOT WORKING" , why would SE make u feel like that after u devoting so much time and effort to kill NM for drop an item that u want it. NOW wat do u think if u r in my position ? wat u would do if u cant earn a single damn thing after u devoting that much of time and effort? if any1 can answer this matter , i will drop this topic and never bring up again.
ONLY hard camp players who spend at least the amount time and effort like i did before march update are able to understand my feeling. at one time i said " THIS IS THE LAST DRAW, I'M QUITTING THIS GAME" but then again i hate being a quitter so i'm still trying to camp these NMs til march update and i saw thief's knifes are selling in AH for 350k in AH.
NOW, talk about weapons and armors, wat r u talking about . weapons and armors have an imporant role to ur charc. I have done 2 tests myself , each test has 10 runs, the 1st 10 run w/normal weapon and armors ,i was half dead because my armors and weapon didnt provide my charc good status to kill monster and the monster was DECENT to me. Then i started do my 2nd test which alsot 10 runs as well . i decided go head and equips my best weapons and armors that bought from AH or earned from quest to my charc. and i went around look for the monster that have same status like the 1 i fought before w/normal weapons and armors. there was a huge difference between normal vs best weapons and armors after i fought the monster had same status, that monster WAS BARELY touched me. i do believe if u r good player , u know wat u r doing during the fight but weapons and armors are also important as well. that is why they design from bad items ---> rare/ex items for us to obtain it, BUT don't have to be extremely hard to obtain it.

i'm looking forward to see next reply, and i'm sorry that my grammer is not good /bow and /smile.

[Feba]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

so you've had bad luck. Life sucks, get a helmet.

In other news, has anyone found a cure for bleeding eyes yet?

[eticket109]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

FFXI is not an MMO on easy mode. They can't just hand everything to everyone.

They need to fix the droprates on the 72+ hour r/e NMs before anything lol

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

don't u think u r entiltle to earn reward after a hard battle that may or may not cause a lot of death?

No.

why would SE make u feel like that after u devoting so much time and effort to kill NM for drop an item that u want it. NOW wat do u think if u r in my position ?

Why don't rare items always drop in other FF games? Why is it if I pop a chest in the World of Balance, I lose a chance at an awesome piece of armor or an ultimte weapon in the World of Ruin?

So SE will have me playing the game again. They pulled that little stunt again in FFXII, I can't touch one treasure pot without risking the loss of something awesome later. In FFIX you have less then 9 hours to get Steiner's Excalibur or its lost forever.

If you want to have the best stuff, SE makes you work for it. That's pretty much how it is in all their games. MMOs are no different. Just because you pay to play doesn't mean they're going to install a "win" feature.

[anthonynguyen15]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

appearantly i worked too damn hard, i like said i camped these NMs over 20 times, how much work do i have to work before i can earn my item. yes life is hard, can't expect everything handed to u freely, but i do believe once u set ur minded on something and work hard like hell then someday u will earn ur reward. and that how i have been living my life. i do not expect rare/ex pop from treasure coffer or chest freely, but i do expect a reward after i work hard and devoting so much time in this game. some1 mentioned about reduce time spawn and increase drop rate, i like that sound idea . at least i can expect kraken club would drop at some point like 1/10 fights.

question to SE now

will they ever change time spawn and increase dropping rate or not?
yes or no and why

[Taskmage]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

Regarding that World of Balance/World of Ruin bit, I think that bit of game design is BS in a single player game. As a recent example, it's retarded that I have to zone in and out of one area of the Paramina Rift a hundred times to get Trickster to spawn in FFXII, or that if you open any of 19 chests in the game you get screwed out of an early zodiac spear. Time-sink features like that have no purpose in a single-player experience where all the money is provided upfront with the purchase of the game. The only logical reason I can see for it is to sell strategy guides as a secondary revenue stream, which I think is disgusting as a business model.

I don't know how others feel, but personally now that I'm not a kid anymore and don't have to stretch out ChronoTrigger for six months until mom buys me a new game, I feel just as satisfied spending my $50 on a game like Prince of Persia, which wraps its perhaps 90 minutes of narrative in 6-8 hours of puzzles and combat, as on FFXII which tacks on 60 hours of repetetive crap. Don't get me wrong, I think FFXII is great in a lot of ways, but I feel that certain elements of its design are outright hostile to players. I don't play games because I'm desperate for a way to dispose of time. I like to be presented with new ideas, challenges and scenarios, and when I succeed within the context of that presentation I expect a proportional in-game reward, not a 4% chance at an item I need 6 of to get an ultimate weapon or to be denied said weapon for having my thief character open a chest in plain sight.

So from a certain standpoint, I agree with the OP. I think that the rewards for say an NM fight should be proportional to the risk taken and the effort expended by the people fighting. However, as others have pointed out, in an MMO there are other considerations. We're paying from month to month, and as customers we demand enough content to keep us engaged and interested or we'll get bored and stop playing and paying. The developers have to stop that from happening to keep the game viable but at the same time they can only produce so much, so they have to find ways to keep us tied up in content until they can release something else. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. There are good ways and bad ways of doing this, and I have to agree that the singular challenge with a miniscule chance of reward is one of those wrong ways, but making the items 100% drop isn't the way to fix it either. In the grand scope, the reward would be too great for the amount of time spent trying to attain it.

Sometimes I think the developers "get it" and are shifting away from the player-hostile modes of design and sometimes I wonder. BCNMs for example. Most BCNMs drop garbage with a small chance at one or two really great items. People have to throw away tons of seals hoping to get an item that has any value at all, then if it's not the one they needed they have to sell or trade it for the item they actually want. Over time the payoff averages out, but looking back many players are bound to regard all those BCNMs that dropped crap before the good item finally dropped as "wasted time." Meanwhile other players might luck out and get the drop on the first run, thus getting inpropotionately rewarded for their time and effort in comparison. Compare this to the most recent battlefield incarnation, assault. Just for participation in assault you at least get some points towards rank and items, so right there you're already at least acknowledging the value of the player's time. Some assaults do have a good randomly dropping item, but for the most part people do assault for assault points and rank points, which are gradually awarded to the player to save up for their goal items. Players with greater skill will succeed more and get their points faster, but for all players the reward is assured as long as you keep trying and you can actually watch your progress toward the goal. There's no chance of going ofer 50 on the drop while someone else gets it on the first run. Everyone's rewarded proportionally.

On the other hand you've got the lu shang vs ebisu quests. Lu shang is my "right way" example. Daunting requirements, but a determined fisherman can take it as a challenge and measure their progress toward a guaranteed reward. Ebisu, which was introduced later, is more like a lottery. Fish up these rare, legendary fish, then turn them in for like a 1% chance at one of two items you need for the best fishing rod. Some people get it in their first 20 fish where as Jei and Enneisevoli fish for months straight, turning in hundreds of fish before finally getting their reward. One way challenges the player to keep going, the other dares them to quit. Most old NMs are the latter.

Hopefully the Nyzul Isle staging point is SE's fix that offers a player-friendly alternative to that brutal old content. I think that's what we're all hoping for, but it's too early to know for sure how it'll work out.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

Regarding that World of Balance/World of Ruin bit, I think that bit of game design is BS in a single player game. As a recent example, it's retarded that I have to zone in and out of one area of the Paramina Rift a hundred times to get Trickster to spawn in FFXII, or that if you open any of 19 chests in the game you get screwed out of an early zodiac spear. Time-sink features like that have no purpose in a single-player experience where all the money is provided upfront with the purchase of the game. The only logical reason I can see for it is to sell strategy guides as a secondary revenue stream, which I think is disgusting as a business model.

There was a point where I would have agreed with that (though FFIX is probably the only real guilty one, SE was trying to push POL guides back then), but after playing the series so long, some aspects just become pretty apparent. I was wary of touching the chests once I heard words like "Magicite" and "Esper" tossed around.

Hopefully the Nyzul Isle staging point is SE's fix that offers a player-friendly alternative to that brutal old content. I think that's what we're all hoping for, but it's too early to know for sure how it'll work out.

I don't think its going to be for everyone. It follows the ideas of the 100 level/Chaos/Omega dungeons, which can be really fun or really frustrating. Overall I like it so far, but the challenge is pretty high in that you have to learn the patterns of the objectives, in addition to having a group of players that will come prepared for anything. In the dungeons of the other games it was either treasure or a lot of crappy White, Red and Blue fangs. Or maybe an ether. So far Nyzul us par for course in that regard.

But one of the other aspects were that the bosses that appeared on various floors always did drop the goods. If we're to consider the HNMs as bosses there, I'm interested to see what their drops turn out to be.

[eticket109]

Re: trigger NMs by trading rare/ex item

So far the bosses on 20 and up seem to drop the denali/askar/galliard gear or whatever it is. I would be interested to see if some of the higher bosses drop ??? boxes that turn out to be abjurations.