About Elitists

[Theyaden]

Re: About Elitists

Mhurron>If you don't shut that damn spam up I'm leaving.
And then suddenly I'm the bad guy. Go figure.

I suspect asking a little more nicely couldn't made the request go more smoothly. I'll grant the spam volume you quoted from that party was horrible. I don't use alot of comments in my macros since I'm usually using up the extra lines to swap rings and other gear. I have played around with /p added to macros and have no problem removing them on request or if I think it's in the way after a battle. Telling someone could you please remove the macro chat is more likely to have a warm reception than shut that damn spam up or else. I've found showing a little courtesy usually gets better results.

The problem is it never gets better, hopefully the stupid macros die a horrible death but it's not replaced with socializing. You have to face it, most people you party with don't want to be social, they don't want to make friends out side their LS or little circle.

I'm not sure if it's a specific level that people stop chating your referencing, but I find most parties I'm in are willing to chat while getting to the camp together killing easier mobs while waiting for a replacement to arrive and non hectic moments such as battle going smoothly, but chat is lessend if it's a tougher fight since mages are watching for status effects ninja's are trading off hate as their shadows go down. Blackmage trying to stay in the hateline and watching for stun oppurtunities exc. The chatting is there if you look for it just not as much as during the dunes.

Macro comments have their place, but in my opinion it's like sugar in coffie a light dose adds flavor while too much makes it sickening. When playing thief I had a /p macro to help out the blackmage with the manaburst. Just added it into the sata macro and used that one when closing the skillchain. As whitemage I don't attach it to healing macros since I've never found it vital to highlight the healing magic although if 2 healers are treading on each other I could see a case for it.

Once in awhile if it isn't attached to something constantly firing like boost or provoke the comments will make me laugh.

[Jei]

Re: About Elitists

I don't usually ask for PT set up but it is definitely handy to know before you make your desicion. I do /sea all leader everytime I got a tell at least. And I only join if the leader answers my /tell .... I avoid leaders that don't talk or talk in broken english perosnally.

Err well except JP leaders. At least gilsellers don't /tell to you in japanese.

JP Parties can be nice and I try to get in one or form one whenever possible. However, there are still so many JP only going on these days. My nin, from 35 to 45, most JPs I found were JP only. Well because I can type in JP I have no problem but I can see it being a problem for many more people.

[Akashimo]

Re: About Elitists

I tend to agree more with the JP statments, espically in how the pty is setup when i'm the only NA member. =x At any rate, NA exps imho is getting more elitist and TP burn crazy by the day, nor do they take notice to subs or /seacoms. Usually i'd just go lfp if i'm on rdm or whm with drg or war sub to see if they can take notice, as a test to see if i should accept. Over all, the ones that don't notice or say anything usually ends up into the worse parties >_>; ones that do notice, rocks.

Today for example, this cor, was saying nothing is better in a party than a rdm, himself and 4 dds. He goes "lolpup, lolmnk and lolthf" when we were lfm. And even lolwhm -.-; And our leader a blu who was willingly to main heal (blu/whm when i joined), d/c (possibly forced d/c) cause of that cors attidute. So we ended up getting sam, making me go from refresh/backup heal/dd/enfeebler rdm/war to main heal. Luckily >_> kills were fast and safe for my mp and the pld knew how to manage his mp per cure. Still, just the attidutes from thinking they're way is the best way and won't try the others or acknowlegde their member's /seacom & subs to go with the setup or personal prefence on how they can effectively do their job is getting out of hand.

One thing I wonder is how would the game change if we could only to the /autogroup system for exp?

[Vyuru]

Re: About Elitists

JP leader are so much more polite and helpful in their invite messages...

I dunno about that. Most send me a little happy face with a (Hello!) (Party?), some will send me a long spat of kanji of which I only know about 3 or 4, and unless the camp has to do with a river, tree, wind, or shopping, and maybe going out somewhere, I won't know what they're saying

Normally when I send an invite it'll be something like, (Excuse me) (Experiance points party), (Do you need it?) @ (job1) (job2) (job3) (job4) (job5)

I'll have an idea where I want to exp, and I'll check before hand to make sure there is enough room to party there. Then once everyone joins I'll say, "Ok, I'm thinking that we party at X on Y, does anyone have any preferences for alterenate exp spots? Ok, grab what you need and make sure you have XYZ because of ABC"

Since I am the party leader it's my duty to make sure everyone knows what they need before going out. If it's a zone with alot of magic aggro melee cannot count on mages for sneak/invis, if we're fighting Raptors the whm needs Viruna, Anticans it's best if the mages bring Echo Drops and so on. There is alot to being a party leader, more than just tossing a party together and running off to some camp at any rate.

I don't see a problem with asking what the party setup is, or where the camp is. Depending on the camp I will either bring +acc food or +att food, normally I'll bring both but if I know before hand that I can hit the mobs pretty well already, and we'll have a bard singing a +acc song, I'm bringing yellow curry or something similar.

Normally though I'll just join a party when I get an invite, I haven't had a bad party in awhile now, but if I've had a bunch of bad parties with people who had no clue with what they were doing, then I would start asking again.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: About Elitists

Usually when I send /tell ask for PT invite, I would say someting like: {Hello!} {Party} ^^? We have <job1> <job2> <job3> (3/6)

>_> If I get a /tell like that while seeking, I'd jump all over it with a {Yes, please.} and three smilies before that leader has a chance to reconsider inviting this gimped geared RDM with a tendency to get lost on the way to camp. <_<;

Sadly, I think I've received that kind of party invite from NA leadrers on any job about twice in the last six months. Most are just "{Party}?" or "PT?", with a small number naming the camp zone (but not the exp mob). Quite a few of them didn't even bother to type the question mark; a random "PT", then a minute later, "u thr". -_-#

JP leader are so much more polite and helpful in their invite messages...

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

I took a break from the game for a month or so.

[Mhurron]

Re: About Elitists

"Accepting" an invite isn't signing a contract in blood. The approach I was suggesting is something like the following:
1. If the person asks if you want a pt, and you are indeed seeking with flag up, search comment etc (as opposed to getting a random invite when you aren't even seeking), then answer "yes". It's the truth, after all.

No it's not. While in general I may want an EXP party, until they answer some questions I don't know if I want to party with *them*

3. THEN ask about the pt setup, and what subjob they would prefer you use.
3a. If you don't like the party set up, or feel some hostility, tell them you changed your mind, and be honest about the reasons for doing so.
3b. If you don't agree with their subjob recommendation, give them your reasons why you think a different choice is better. If they still won't bend, feel free to go back to 3a above.

As has been said, this does make you look like an ass. Asking questions before hand is only going to insult people you didn't want to party with anyway. This way pisses everyone off.

BTW OT, I was starting to think Murphie was dead.

[Caspian]

Re: About Elitists

I see where you're coming from, but personally, I'd rather not get their hopes up, then join the party only to leave a minute later.
I always put {/tell}{please} in my search comment. I put it there to open the lines of communication before an invite is even sent. They ask if I want to join their party which leads into me asking a few, harmless questions. I don't bombard them with questions right from the start. I usually just ask where. Then, after they answer, I'll ask what sub they would prefer. I've also found that the ones who have an opinion on what I sub, rather than just saying "I don't care.", often know a lot more about whats going on and have a legitiment reason for recommending the subjob they suggested.
I agree, sending sequential /tells of What? Who? When? Where? would be very rude and that alone could put a party leader off wanting to invite you. Thats why I say to just chill out, ask calmly, wait for an answer, then ask your next question.

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

I see no reason to say "Yes", then after a few questions say "Never mind." I just look like a dick when I do that.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: About Elitists

"Accepting" an invite isn't signing a contract in blood. The approach I was suggesting is something like the following:

1. If the person asks if you want a pt, and you are indeed seeking with flag up, search comment etc (as opposed to getting a random invite when you aren't even seeking), then answer "yes". It's the truth, after all.

2. Don't leave town yet.

3. THEN ask about the pt setup, and what subjob they would prefer you use.
3a. If you don't like the party set up, or feel some hostility, tell them you changed your mind, and be honest about the reasons for doing so.
3b. If you don't agree with their subjob recommendation, give them your reasons why you think a different choice is better. If they still won't bend, feel free to go back to 3a above.

4. Change to the appropriate subjob, grab the appropriate gear and supplies, and head out to camp.

[Caspian]

Re: About Elitists

Agree with Murphie and Aeolus, I ask beforehand in order to gauge the leader's attitude just as much, if not more, than the actual response. If they're not willing to answer a perfectly normal question, then it gives me serious misgivings about their potential as a party leader. If they're going to flip out and call me an "elitist prick" for asking these things, then I have to wonder how they're going to handle someone disagreeing with something farther down the line in the party. What happens if the mob they try to fight doesn't give as much experience as some would like and they voice their opinion? What if someone screws up and the leader dies because of it? If they can't control their temper over a couple questions, then I can't really expect them to control it in a little more trying situation. After three years of seeing it in parties, I'm just sick and tired of playing babysitter to party members acting like two year olds.

[Jei]

Re: About Elitists

I always form a party if I see a decent amount of players with good mix of jobs seeking :O

It annoys me a lot when I see there's brd seeking... and the PT leader go ahead and pick another DD and we end up with DD DD DD DD magex2 at level 30 -.-

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

Of course a normal party setup can still fail, but I like to know if I'm the only healer, or what kind of tank I'm going to be dealing with before even leaving town. I don't like to waste my time heading to the camp only to find myself heading back after a couple of fights if things don't work out. Honestly, I'm better off just staying where I am in that case.

[Celeal]

Re: About Elitists

Sometimes a valid party setup would still fail too, for other reasons. I used to ask questions about party before I accept invite too, but now I would just join the party. With the EN parties that trend to look for replacement during the xp session, the party setup can be changed anytime. Just give the party a few battles to settle down, to adjust, to work out. With a little effort and teamwork, usually the party can roll just fine, even if it is not the best exp. If things does not work out, reform the group, or find replacement, etc. The worst case just disband the party.

I rarely form my own party, unless I really want to gain exp, and the jobs that LFG can form a decent party setup. Usually when I send /tell ask for PT invite, I would say someting like: {Hello!} {Party} ^^? We have <job1> <job2> <job3> (3/6)

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

If someone is going to take issue with my asking a few questions before agreeing to join a party, then I don't need to join that party, I guess.

Seriously. If you aren't willing to answer:

1.) What is the party setup?

2.) What subjob would you prefer I use?

3.) How long do you expect to exp?

Then I don't need to join your party. Usually I only ask the first two, but sometimes I'll ask all three. Regardless, most people never respond after the first one, so I just go on my way and don't worry about them.