Just...wow.

[Icemage]

Re: Just...wow.

From his post, he is a person who enjoys playing but has no close ties. SO WHAT!!!!

Not everone develops close relationships in this game. They also don't all play it all of the time. Maybe all of his friends left, maybe he took a break. The fact is he asked for help and got elitist bull.

FFXI is a MMORPG. As in "Massively Multiplayer" - and few, if any, MMORPGs are as team-oriented as FFXI. If you choose to not participate and make friends, then that's your own business. Sometimes people quit, true. But seriously, not everyone in this game is poison ivy; there are a lot of nice players in the playerbase, and finding nice people who you get along with is not that hard as long as you put just a bit of effort into socializing.

My point is that anyone who is friendless in this game is generally that way by choice - and for someone who is 8 levels away from end-game to not be able to muster enough firepower for a simple artifact armor run speaks volumes about how little attention has been paid to those relationships.

I'm not criticizing the choice to not socialize; I am criticizing the lack of recognition that these are group activities, and that the only way you're going to get them done is by persuading a group of people to help you.

If you don't want to socialize, that's fine and dandy; no one else is paying your fees. But if you don't, then you should accept the reality that you really are on your own, and that there are a ton of things in the game that you're just not going to be able to do solo.


Icemage

[Jonastb]

Re: Just...wow.

Most of the comments here don't help the poster. Telling him you don't believe him, or that things are not so difficult, don't do anything but make you look elitist.

From his post, he is a person who enjoys playing but has no close ties. SO WHAT!!!!
Not everone develops close relationships in this game. They also don't all play it all of the time. Maybe all of his friends left, maybe he took a break. The fact is he asked for help and got elitist bull.

Not every server has people that are willing to help someone without any constraints. And making someone prove to you they are worth helping is an elitist constraint, no matter how you look at it.

2 and a half years ago when people were trying to get their first AF, it was tough. It took a full alliance from 50-65 to beat the Body AF for brd. And we wiped the first time. It is much easier now if you have the contacts. But you also can get to 75 without the contacts. Thus you are at the mercy of people you don't know, attempting to get something for yourself that may or may not have an impact on them.

Poster, I would recommend making a post on the server forumn here and FFXIwiki asking for help. I am sure there will be people willing to help. Good luck and keep playing.

[Icemage]

Re: Just...wow.

but isn't it also true that it's easier to get help with the level 75 stuff because everyone else is interested in doing it anyway? Everyone's up for a KS30 run because everyone will get something out of it; or at least if you're in an end game LS, you're enjoying fighting those things. You don't particularly enjoy hunting coffer keys, standing on switches, and killing NMs that you've already killed 3 times.

This is no different today than the situation was 3 years ago, when there wasn't any such thing as level 75 players. Human nature hasn't changed - it was just as hard, if not harder, to get people to come help you with AF armor back then as it is today, and frankly, the number of people you have to convince today (2-3) is way lower than the number you used to need (8+).

In Icemage's case, you've been "End-game" since the dawn of time. Thus, pretty much all of your friend base is likely 70+, if not 75 in multiple jobs like yourself.

Majority, yes. But I still maintain contact with a lot of friends who don't buy into the level grind and take things at their own pace, and I'm always willing to lend them a hand with things (missions, AF, whatever) whenever they get around to it.

Thus, you have friends who're willing to help you with AF for all the new jobs you raise to 75. I doesn't compute the same for casual players who lack anything resembling routine.

Again, this is no different today than it was 3 years ago when I started. If you were a casual player back then, it was a seriously difficult challenge to get more than 1 party of people (which was necessary since people were much lower level and didn't always have the right mix of jobs), to go hunt a coffer key or take down an AF NM.

For me, personally, yes, I have no end of resources at my fingertips because I've taken the time to associate with people at end-game. However, while a good number of end-game players stay within the closed clique of level 75s, there are many of us that do not.

Until you join an HNMLS, most of your friends are as likely to be level 50 as they are 75. Not that I'm accusing HNMLSers of being elitists, but they pretty much always have a network of whatever help they need.

True, but my point is that it is still much easier to get help with AF armor today than it was years ago, because there are many more people who can do them with a lot less effort.

Even those of us at end-game with multiple jobs at 75 still have down-time between events. I go on genkai runs, AF armor runs, and all manner of strange things that don't directly benefit me pretty often as long as I can slide it in between LS activities. The tricky part is convincing me that they're worth helping - not because I'm looking for return on investment, but because there are a lot of people out there that just don't appreciate help when it's offered. If I see someone with a healthy attitude who just needs a helping hand, I'll go out of my way to get them out of whatever bind they're in (and I'm not above calling for reinforcements from my friends if I don't think I can do whatever it is alone).


Icemage

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Just...wow.

Whenever something like this comes up people always say, "Don't let the elitist pricks put you off" like they're in the minority or that levelling will reward you with not having to encounter these people. Sad fact is, the elitists are in the majority and endgame is full of them because they all maxed their level years ago and have nothing better to do now than level alternate jobs that're geared in superior equipment while being super-critical assholes of other player's gear choices and play styles. The huge irony of a game that enforces grouping to further a feeling of community which then makes you reliant on people who make your skin crawl in order to "enjoy" your gaming experience.

[Kafeen]

Re: Just...wow.

What were you wearing in the place of AF? If you were gimp badly enough, I'd kick you to teach you a lesson as well.

There was quite a few people who got BLU to 75 before the AF was added. We're they all gimps aswell?

[Jei]

Re: Just...wow.

I think you need to get to know more people. That, or make closer ties with friends you already have. Help others, make good friends, and they'll help you out with AFs (which compare to other things you'll need help later on, is one of the simplest thing honestly)

It may be my luck, but both my LS and HNM LS are very friendly and helpful. I have total appreciation for them and I'll help them whenever requested, too.

Sometimes you don't even need to help. Like my new Dynamis LS. Just chat and have fun with other members and that's enough to make us good friends already ^^b

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Just...wow.

Hate to be blunt here, but really does sound like you're not really making an effort at all. There's a lot of excuses here, most obstacles described can be overcome by being organized, having goals and making connections with other players. These are pretty simple obstacles, too. I don't particularly buy into the RMT/MPK excuse here.

Additionally, if you've been playing for three years, you must realize things are alot easier now than when you started. I mean, I'm not exactly rolling in the gil here, but I manage to make do with what I have and get what I need before moving forward. I've managed to get up pretty high in two of the most expensive jobs in the game.

Just as an example, last Saturday I had my first bout with Maat in my second character, Omgwtfbbqkitten. I had the perfect strategy, but I managed to choke on the first try, he got me. So I make a run to Monastic Cavern - I didn't even look for people, its just common sense that at some point over a weekend that players like me are going to be farming testimonies or coffer keys there.

And there was a PT there farming, I offer to help since i'm looking for a testimony. Just so happens they already have one in their treasure pool. They invite me in and let me lot for it and I stay to help them with the key they were after. We zone back into the center part of Davoi and there are a couple deaths. No problem, my taru can raise them, so I log and run him over. I had what I needed, I could have left, but instead I chose to go the extra mile for these guys and they appreciated it.

I go back to Maat and kick his ass without the choking this time.

If you leave a good impression on people, if you put your best effort into helping others out, people will back you up when you have needs. True, there are jerks in this game that don't do that, but live, learn and keep helping others. It eventally works out.

And I am "one of those people" who gets a little ticked when I see someone who isn't trying to do their best with a job. I don't like people who are levelling up for the sake of levelling up. Whether they are short on time or just after easy merits, I don't want to waste my time with them if they're not in PT to play their job to the fullest.

Its not about having the best of the best gear either, just having adequate means to play the job to its potential. Why level WHM when certain parts of AF make you a better WHM? Why level BLU if you don't do the same there? Getting to high levels is meaningless without the skills and knowledge to match. And really, I'd say most high levels are still total noobs these days anyway.

[Vyuru]

Re: Just...wow.

To the OP, don't give up because of idiots, sadly they are everywhere and when you make something idiot proof the world makes a better idiot, we'll never be rid of them ; ;

I don't know how to obtain the blue mage AF, but I know it has something to do with going to each of the staging points.

If that is the case, I would recommend:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=11;mid=1145742830107429539;num=156;page=1

This guide has a link to how to reach each staging point, and is a very nice guide to have. The only problem is that there are some true sight/sound beastmen in each of the strongholds, typically located in the area that the mirrors are located. So just be sure to have reraise up when going through those areas.

[Lmnop]

Re: Just...wow.

but isn't it also true that it's easier to get help with the level 75 stuff because everyone else is interested in doing it anyway? Everyone's up for a KS30 run because everyone will get something out of it; or at least if you're in an end game LS, you're enjoying fighting those things. You don't particularly enjoy hunting coffer keys, standing on switches, and killing NMs that you've already killed 3 times.

In Icemage's case, you've been "End-game" since the dawn of time. Thus, pretty much all of your friend base is likely 70+, if not 75 in multiple jobs like yourself. Thus, you have friends who're willing to help you with AF for all the new jobs you raise to 75. I doesn't compute the same for casual players who lack anything resembling routine. Until you join an HNMLS, most of your friends are as likely to be level 50 as they are 75. Not that I'm accusing HNMLSers of being elitists, but they pretty much always have a network of whatever help they need.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Just...wow.

What were you wearing in the place of AF? If you were gimp badly enough, I'd kick you to teach you a lesson as well.

[Likibiki]

Re: Just...wow.

I soloed all my WHM AF, apart from the Fei'Yin fight which I grabbed a WHM and NIN friend for.

Fenrir kicks ass. End of.

[Icemage]

Re: Just...wow.

Don't be a pessimist, Icemage. Don't assume anything.

I assume nothing. I'm saying that a level 67 white mage has had plenty of time to develop in-game relationships. AF armor is not that hard. I'm sorry, it's not. I've done it for 4 different jobs. Other than my WHM set (which I did as my first job), I didn't require a huge number of people. I did RDM, BRD, and BLM AF with 2-3 people total (including myself in that total).


Icemage

[Mog]

Re: Just...wow.

I would have to ask the question about whether you're making an effort to get to know people in-game. One RDM/NIN at level 75 can take down the WHM AF3 boss with some backup healing, for instance.

How is it that you've been playing for 3 years and not made any friends in that time? I hate to say it, but you're going to need high level help sooner or later. Getting AF armor is ridiculously easy compared to things you do towards end-game, so if you're struggling even with that, you're going to hate being level 75 even more.


Icemage

Don't be a pessimist, Icemage. Don't assume anything.

[Icemage]

Re: Just...wow.

I would have to ask the question about whether you're making an effort to get to know people in-game. One RDM/NIN at level 75 can take down the WHM AF3 boss with some backup healing, for instance.

How is it that you've been playing for 3 years and not made any friends in that time? I hate to say it, but you're going to need high level help sooner or later. Getting AF armor is ridiculously easy compared to things you do towards end-game, so if you're struggling even with that, you're going to hate being level 75 even more.


Icemage

[Mog]

Re: Just...wow.

Unbelievable.

I finally got my THF to 37 (It was sooo fun! Too bad I can't afford a NIN sub...), so I got back onto BLU. Got the equipment I was using before, and started to LFG.

I get an invite.

After a while, the pt leader asks about my AF, which I didn't have.
PT Leader: "Dude, where's your stuff? Don't tell me this is all you have? I'm sorry. It is just me, but can't bear to pt with a person as gimped as you."

I forgot to equip the rest of my armor. Oops. I tell her my stuff is in the Mog House, so I went and get it. Then she just kicks me from the party as soon as I entered the Mog House.

...

I didn't send her any flaming angry /tells. I just /sighed and waited.

Next day I was shouting all day for help in getting my BLU AF. No, no luck. All I was getting was pt invites for EXP, and I was doing just fine (If I subbed /WHM, my Magic Fruit and other magical abilities are beautiful. I could just main heal if I wanted to).

Now, here is irony.
I'm a 67 White Mage, yet I've not been able to get my full AF (Due to Gilsellers MPKing my pt a lot, and then it's just people camping coffers, and then no one wants to help me do Gate Breach). So I have to deal with it. I'm personally amazed I got to 67...

Now here I am as a 60 Blue Mage. Now no one wishes to help me with the AF (I seriously don't know the new areas too well). So I have to do with what I have. I hope I'm not screwed because of a bit of income problems (But that's lessening due to SE's Gilseller attacks). -_-

Should I just give up on BLU or try to push it further? I really enjoyed BLU through all 53 levels (First 7 sucked), and I hope it could actually be my first 75 Job after 3 years of playing FFXI.

Don't give up a job because of idiots. If you love a certain job in this game, do whatever it takes to get it to 75 and obtain your AF.

Seriously.....people in this game are stupid. Idiots. Kids (which I'm sure a lot of the e-peens are). Don't let these people ruin your playing experience. Just smile and move on.