FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

[Aeni]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

One thing I can guarentee you, that MUDs Monks were very hard to play. If you were good at it though then they were very godly on that MUD, however if you couldn't choose your stances right or wrong timing on them then you could be a very pathetic Monk.

On that MUD the godly Monks could kill Medusa solo (1 of the hardest mobs in the MUD, con about IT+ to lv. 75 in FFXI), but the pathetic ones could barely solo a master thief (one of the mid level mobs be about one conning as EP to a lv. 70 in FFXI). There was a lot more controllers though too.

Your suggestions sounds like WAR in WOW. Three stances (Battle-default, Shield-tank and Berserk-attack) In each of the stances, you get a different benefit (Dual-wield in one, shield mastery in another, etc.) This gives an added flexibility to a job class depending on a situation.

And yes, it's not easy to master. It takes a certain individual that is willing to be anal in his/her process with each of the stances. You're either perfect or just a nub.

[Omniblast]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

â– SMN
【Job's Strength】
Job that uses mp to summon avators and fight with it

Changes made based on summoning skill
We will divide Blood pacts into two category: Damage Blood Pact and Healing/Buff Blood Pact. Blood Pact will affect summoning skill ups.

Yes! Something for us finally. Now if only we can somehow solve the perpetuation problem. As much as I like to summon and sit, I'd much rather be helping my party out by keeping my avatar out. I mean, who doesn't like to see the sight of a Purplish glowing wolf running behind me ready to bite something.

Now we can finally do stupid buffs to our pets BEFORE doing a damage blood pact, and it would increase the blood pact's effectivness. Ecliptic Howl, then Ecliptic Bite (full moon = more accuracy)
I'm sick of seeing 200 damage by fenrir, when I know he can do more.

[Kaickul]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Seriously though, I wonder what they are planning, but I can already hear the "<insert job> are too overpowered, nerf them" screams, followed by the "we <insert job> are too weak and that makes me feel inferior, make everyone as weak as me!".

Based on the dicussion already going on... this is how the arguement will always be.

Something I think needs to be considered here is that SE isnt trying to screw up jobs as much as they might be trying to alter perceptions. Example: Trying to get BSTs into a PT structure seems (dont flame) something worthwhile considering BSTs were never meant to be a solo job.

[Macht]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Now this would be cool. Plus it would add some interest in the monk job besides hitting auto-attack, running to the kitchen to get a drink, and getting back in time to use a weaponskill (oh-hoho do I see some guilty expressions out there?). Plus it just seems more.. well.. monkish.

One thing I can guarentee you, that MUDs Monks were very hard to play. If you were good at it though then they were very godly on that MUD, however if you couldn't choose your stances right or wrong timing on them then you could be a very pathetic Monk.

On that MUD the godly Monks could kill Medusa solo (1 of the hardest mobs in the MUD, con about IT+ to lv. 75 in FFXI), but the pathetic ones could barely solo a master thief (one of the mid level mobs be about one conning as EP to a lv. 70 in FFXI). There was a lot more controllers though too.

[Herrisa]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

MNKs change sounds like they are making them more like a MUD style MNK I played once before. Basically they are giving the monks more stances. An example of what I mean this particular MUD did this:

Crane Stance: Higher Evasion, Better Counterattack, Low Defense, Moderate Damage, Normal Attack Speed

Dragon Stance: Higher Damage, Moderate Defense, Low Evasion, Low Counterattack, Normal Attack Speed

Mantis Stance: Higher Attack Speed, Moderate Damage, Low Defense, Moderate Counter, Low Evasion

Tiger Stance: Normal Damage, Moderate Attack Speed, Low Defense, Slightly Higher Counter, Low Evasion

And so on, not a great example. Enough to give an idea of what I'm thinking. Basically if the MNK finds himself drawing hate and ending up the Tank he can change his stance. Say it's a MNK type mob or fast hitting one MNK could change to Crane stance and tank by avoiding and countering frequent attacks. If it's a hard hitter and slow attack then could change to Dragon Stance and do a fight Fire with Fire logic. Or if he isn't a tank can change to Mantis and get a quazi Hundred Fist like damage going to start building up TP and whatever else.

Now this would be cool. Plus it would add some interest in the monk job besides hitting auto-attack, running to the kitchen to get a drink, and getting back in time to use a weaponskill (oh-hoho do I see some guilty expressions out there?). Plus it just seems more.. well.. monkish.

[Raydeus]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Everything I've seen has put that Tier II enfeebles at best as a minor improvement. Enfeebles do not work like Elemental spells, there is no cap or maximum they can do, they grow with you. If Thunder didn't have a damage cap around 130 or so then there would be no need for Thunder 2-4 but it does cap, the enfeebles do not.

You are right, Tier II debuffs as they are right now suck (specially Phalanx II).


Enfs are capped though, players have tested the max Slow effect and stuff like that, it's not that spells wont cap, is just that you'll never see the max effect they can have simply because you'll never have enough +skill +stat (compared to the mob's) to reach it unless you are fighting low lvl mobs or something like that.

Say Thunder damage caps at 130*, well if it was an Enf. then you as a RDM would always be doing 80-90* and say 200* (from something like a 270 cap*) with Thunder II. You wont reach the cap in both cases, but the effect will always be better using a Tier II spell.

(* The values aren't real, and were just used to illustrate the example)

Now, you might see Tier I spells do the same they have since you were lvl 10, and that's exactly the problem.

Tier II spells should have a greater impact, for instance if Paralyze II kicked in as often as the Paralyze from Ice Spikes does and the effect lasted as much it would be great. If Slow II was closer to Carnage Elegy it would be awesome... but they aren't, and for the MP cost they are pretty useless too given the tiny difference in effect compared to Tier I spells.

So SE needs to improve that if they wanna enhance our role as enf/support.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Nah, they might have a slightly better effect with skill and gear, but after lvl 50+ the effect (or lack of it) is very noticible, even with all the +stat gear you can use. Adding more types of bebuffs might be part of what they have in mind, but who knows.

My experience has been that enfeebles worked just as well at lvl10 as it does at 69.

You kinda answered it yourself, Tier II Enfs would have a greater effect and last longer which is really needed after lvl 50, specially if our job is that of debuff/support.

Everything I've seen has put that Tier II enfeebles at best as a minor improvement. Enfeebles do not work like Elemental spells, there is no cap or maximum they can do, they grow with you. If Thunder didn't have a damage cap around 130 or so then there would be no need for Thunder 2-4 but it does cap, the enfeebles do not.

With DD gear RDM has good dmg output for a mage, /DRK is really nice for that. But RDM will never have the damage capabilities a PLD or a BLU has.

I'm not asking to become a Red PLD or a WAR or a DD job at all, just that it would be nice if it didn't look like I would better serve a mission party doing nothing rather then using a weapon. RDM was supposed to be versatile, as in if there wasn't a better job around they could fill that spot.

[Raydeus]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

It seems to me like SE wants to make the game less Refresh dependant, while giving RDM and BRDs better debuffing/enhancing options so they are still wanted in a party.

I'm just curious about how it'll work out in the end, but Auto Refresh II or Conserve MP for SMN and PLD (or even Auto refresh for BLM? o.O ) doesn't seem too farfetched imo.

[tazirai]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

If they add seperate timers for offensive and healing blood pacts, that'd be so freaking sweet. SMN's could actually take a DD/support role if this happened.
Aside from that, it looks like they're nerfing NIN for subbing, trying to buff SAM for subbing(two new traits at 25 and 35 could do it...), and overall trying to get WAR's to sub something else. SAM tanking sounds...different <_<. It'd make the +Enmity AF pieces actually worth something, but I dunno how they expect to have it on par with PLD or NIN unless its Defensive Stance is uber somehow(like increased chance to Parry or something like that).
Certain other changes have me nervous(RNG, although thankfully I'm only taking it to 40 for SAM subbing and BCNM40 fights), but we'll just have to see how it plays out. Although this update has me wondering if I should bother taking my 22 NIN any further if they plan on destroying NIN sub >_>. Also, the DRG news seem lackluster. Doesn't sound anywhere as interesting as the THF one.

We ca already do support DD, this just makes it easier for us, and SMN can stop being Cure tank onry, But knowing People, nothing will change.

â– SMN
【Job's Strength】
Job that uses mp to summon avators and fight with it

Changes made based on summoning skill
We will divide Blood pacts into two category: Damage Blood Pact and Healing/Buff Blood Pact. Blood Pact will affect summoning skill ups.

I can't wait for this But they really need to do something abotu perpetuation .. They should have SUmmoning skill affect perpetuation in some way.
Say -1 Perpetuation/60-70 Summoning skill at 296 capped that would help alot. And make those Summoning skill gear that much more needed.

[Macht]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Means their trying to open up other subjobs and weapon combination for warrior (other than everone going /nin with 2 axes)
Meaning their most likely either doing something to /nin, or their going to make a way to make other subjobs more appealing.

Given that they also comment that WARs are suppose to be the master of weapons. I'm thinking something that allows them to wield other weapons even if they couldn't before if they have that particular job as a sub.

So a WAR might end up being able to wield Katana's and G. Katana's. Or wield other weapons that were certain job main only if WAR has that job as sub. Maybe also an adjustment on were their weapon's skill max is taking the sub job into account.

So WAR/RNG might get a higher cap in skill for Archery, and can use E-Bow and other RNG only weapons. WAR/COR might get a higher cap in Marksmanship and get to use the CORs Hexaguns. Something like sounds like the most common and obvious thing considering most games similar view of WAR and the previous FFs were a WAR could wield any weapon.


MNKs change sounds like they are making them more like a MUD style MNK I played once before. Basically they are giving the monks more stances. An example of what I mean this particular MUD did this:

Crane Stance: Higher Evasion, Better Counterattack, Low Defense, Moderate Damage, Normal Attack Speed
Dragon Stance: Higher Damage, Moderate Defense, Low Evasion, Low Counterattack, Normal Attack Speed
Mantis Stance: Higher Attack Speed, Moderate Damage, Low Defense, Moderate Counter, Low Evasion
Tiger Stance: Normal Damage, Moderate Attack Speed, Low Defense, Slightly Higher Counter, Low Evasion

And so on, not a great example. Enough to give an idea of what I'm thinking. Basically if the MNK finds himself drawing hate and ending up the Tank he can change his stance. Say it's a MNK type mob or fast hitting one MNK could change to Crane stance and tank by avoiding and countering frequent attacks. If it's a hard hitter and slow attack then could change to Dragon Stance and do a fight Fire with Fire logic. Or if he isn't a tank can change to Mantis and get a quazi Hundred Fist like damage going to start building up TP and whatever else.

[Raydeus]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Except they do get stronger as you level up, and how would giving Tier 2 spells of the same thing that RDM does all the time fit in as "emphasize the pleasure of utilizing rdm's flexibility." It's just the same thing as they do all the time.

Nah, they might have a slightly better effect with skill and gear, but after lvl 50+ the effect (or lack of it) is very noticible, even with all the +stat gear you can use. Adding more types of bebuffs might be part of what they have in mind, but who knows.

I fail to see why everyone thought that getting Tier II enfeebles was such a great idea in the first place. Blizzard has a damage cap so you have to get Blizzard II to keep up your damage output. Cap your Enfeebling skill and Paralyze works just as good at level 10 as it will at lvl 75.

You kinda answered it yourself, Tier II Enfs would have a greater effect and last longer which is really needed after lvl 50, specially if our job is that of debuff/support.

I like to be more of a Sword weilding RDM if possible during Missions and whatnot, I would like that they would change things slightly so that I can be a little more usefull in that regard.

With DD gear RDM has good dmg output for a mage, /DRK is really nice for that. But RDM will never have the damage capabilities a PLD or a BLU has. Our strength comes from weakening the mob while making ourselves stronger with magic, and that's never going to change. Which is why many RDMs want Tier II debuffs and others like Poison III (or Phalanx II that wasn't just a Warp II kinda thing), because that's the RDM way, at least in my opinion.

If SE added debuffs that lowered TP or Evasion (in a greater amount than Gravity does) then we could have more chances of being in the front lines and actually hit consistently, but RDM's way of fighting is much more defensive than other jobs like BLU so you can't expect much.

Red Mages in Lower Jeuno shouting, "Hey, baby, I'm flexible. Wanna see?"

Guess I'll be saying something like "Hey Baby, I have many subs leveled "



Seriously though, I wonder what they are planning, but I can already hear the "<insert job> are too overpowered, nerf them" screams, followed by the "we <insert job> are too weak and that makes me feel inferior, make everyone as weak as me!".

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

On the face of it, this update appears to be a significant update in many ways.
- This is the first time that S-E has openly commented that they believe RDM's primary role should be as an enfeebler. This is a major departure from the original red mage role as the midway point between white and black mage, and the "fencer" part of the job has been all but forgotten.

Then give me a staff skill if I'm not supposed to be a fighting mage anymore. I don't believe that SE is not admitting they believe that RDM is supposed to be just another mage, but more simply stating what the playerbase has most obvously decided RDM is in a party.

[Herrisa]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

Psychic Herrisa in Predicting the Future

â– How to weaken Absolute VIrtue
If you defeat as much monsters (Ru'phuabo Qn'xzomit Qn'hpemde) as you can summoned by Jalier of Love, his regen will be reduced by half. Furthermore using elemental magic and skillchains based on certain vana day will remove the remaining regen.

Dead black mages everywhere in Sea.

â– Warrior
【Job's Strength】
Master of weapons and able to use a large variety of WS
We will adjust weapon limitations imposed by subjobs and types of weapons limited to warrior.

Screaming and whining. Lots and lots and lots of screaming and whining.

â– Monk
【Job's Strength】
Highly dextrous H2H fighter with high HP
We'd like to adjust monks to be able to adjust their moves based on various situations.

Lots of monks scratching their heads and saying "WTH was SE thinking?"

â– WHM
【Job's Strength】
An expert in white magery, excels in healing and support.
We will furthermore enhance whm's advantage as the main job and enhance its support ability to the party.

Lots of White Mages scratching their heads and saying "WTH was SE thinking?"

â– Blm
【Job's Strength】
A black magic expert that excels in dealing elemental magic damage.
Adjusting blm so that by partying with other jobs, blm will stand out more.

Party invites: one BLM onry.

â– RDM
【Job's Strength】
Enfeebling Magic expert
We'd like to emphasize the pleasure of utilizing rdm's flexibility to deal with various battle situations.

Red Mages in Lower Jeuno shouting, "Hey, baby, I'm flexible. Wanna see?"

â– THF
【Job's Strength】
Attacker that deploys crafty attacks such as Sneak Attack and Trick Attack.
Adjusting thf so that they can improve the entire party's strength.

Search comment: Dear God in Heaven, please, please, please invite me. I beg of you, show mercy to this lowly thief. I don't have a soul, but I still got my first born.

â– PLD
【Job's Strength】
The party's shield with high defence.
We'd like to improve PLD's ability to fight battles in succession.

"I gotz th3 auto-regen!"

â– DRK
【Job's Strength】
Attacker with key points in high attack and abs magic
Improving drk's strength when wielding scythe.

One weapon only: scythe: 50-75

â– BST
【Job's Strength】
Expert in taming and controlling various monsters.
No change to its solo ability
We'd like to improve its potential as a party member.

"Hey, friend, hows it going?"
"Been searching for a party for 5 days now."

â– RNG
【Job's Strength】
Attacker capable of dealing massive damage via ranged attack
Distance modifier on R.accuracy and attack will be adjusted
※Stay tuned for the update!

Eagle Eye Shot misses.

â– BRD
【Job's Strength】
Job that truly shines in a party. MMO's ultimate support job
We'd like to pursue the pleasure of using a variety of songs based on situations.

"Sooo.. do you want that song or this one? This one or that one? Or perhaps you would rather have this one and this one or that one and that one? Or should I just sing this one to that one and have that one to this one..."
"Shut up and give me accuracy..."

â– SAM
【Job's Strength】
Attacker that utilizes TP and WS.
Will revise Overwhelm for more damage bonus and provide a similar ability for lower levels. We're considering in providing new job abilities for level 25 and 35. The keyword is 2-Handed weapons, being able to select Offensive and Defensive. Furthermore if it is possible to pick 「SAM」 as a Subjob.........
※Stay tuned for the update!

Search Comment: Tank? Hell no. DD onry.

â– NIN
【Job's Strength】
A job class with dual role of tank and attacker that utilizes Dual Wield and Ninjustu.
Instead of enhancing the job, we're planning to expand its role in party.

RDM? We don't need no stinking rdm.

â– DRG
【Job's Strength】
Attacker that utilizes various jump and attacks with wyvern
Adjusting Super Jump's recast into 3 minutes.
Empathy will allow drg to share stoneskin with wyvern.
Spirit surge (2HR) will clear all Jump Recast back to 0
※Stay tuned for the update!

Better soloing!

â– SMN
【Job's Strength】
Job that uses mp to summon avators and fight with it
Changes made based on summoning skill
We will divide Blood pacts into two category: Damage Blood Pact and Healing/Buff Blood Pact. Blood Pact will affect summoning skill ups.

Party invites: Main healer pls.

â– BLU, COR, PUP
There are still many factors to add and adjust. Please wait till X'mas.

Christmas gifts for only BLU, COR, and PUP.

â– Goblin Drink Recipe, Hint part2
Frost Turnip and Wild Onion

Sounds yummy already.

[neighbortaru]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

- I agree that S-E continues to make the wrong decisions for BSTs. I think removing the level cap for at least NM jug pets makes a lot of sense, and I'm astounded that it hasn't happened yet - the way I see it, a BST should be able to choose his/her allies at level 75 with no restriction, instead of being limited to only CourierCarrie/Homunculus/AmigoSabotender.

word.

[Icemage]

Re: FFXI information from TGS '06 by Destiny

On the face of it, this update appears to be a significant update in many ways.

- This is the first time that S-E has openly commented that they believe RDM's primary role should be as an enfeebler. This is a major departure from the original red mage role as the midway point between white and black mage, and the "fencer" part of the job has been all but forgotten.

- Two different blood pact timers to juggle should make summoners VERY happy. No more complaints about "what do you do with the 30+ seconds between blood pact/summoning activities"...

- I agree that S-E continues to make the wrong decisions for BSTs. I think removing the level cap for at least NM jug pets makes a lot of sense, and I'm astounded that it hasn't happened yet - the way I see it, a BST should be able to choose his/her allies at level 75 with no restriction, instead of being limited to only CourierCarrie/Homunculus/AmigoSabotender.


Icemage