Does the mining system need an overhaul?

[Ziero]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

I never said it was 'legal' to run a bot, I just said it was hard to prove someone is using a program to repeat an action compared to moving NPCs across the zone, moving at +25% speed constantly, or jumping between different points in the same zone. In fact I clearly said:

SE will ban bots, if they find them. But if the person is sitting at the com talking to the GM, it's kinda hard to prove they're a bot.

When you can prove someone is fish botting or mine botting *besides* them staying in the same place for an extended period of time, let us know.

[Herrisa]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

I mean imagine what 72 hours without a single botter in Gusgen would be like.

That happened on Ramuh once a while back. I heard from a friend that all the local RMTs in Gusgen got banned for two days. So I grabbed my mining gear and headed into Gusgen. There was no one else mining. I told my LS that the RMTs where gone and a couple ls buddies grabbed their mining gear and came out. Well, the news trickled out and in about an hour there were about 15 people mining. Next day I went back and there had to be at least 30 people in the zone mining.

Mining does need an overhaul. An idea I had once is to remove mining points all together and have it somewhat similar to chocobo digging. Unlike chocobo digging, however, the mine is broken up into 10-20 'mining-sections' that people can mine in with the zone's treasure pool broken up into Waste and the Motherlode.

The Waste treasure pool is the mining sections default. When mining in a section with the Waste treasure pool you'll get a lot of the lower end items (pepples, tin ore, copper ore, etc). The Motherlode treasure pool, on the other hand, randomly moves through the sections overwriting the Waste pool. When a miner discovers they're mining the Motherlode they'll get a lot of the higher end items (higher-quality ores, gold, etc). Once the Motherlode is depleted, it will then randomly re-spawn in another one of the mining-sections.

It doesn't stop botting all together, but at least the botter can't monopolize one point excluding everyone else. Find the motherlode and you might end up with 20 other people mining the section with you, or some ls buddies if you keep it quiet.

Just for clarity: You'll have to swing your pick at the ground yet. There just won't be a point to swing it at. Like scooping goldfish in the river.

[ifandbut]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

Just for clarity: You'll have to swing your pick at the ground yet. There just won't be a point to swing it at. Like scooping goldfish in the river.

And haveing a mineing skill simular to chocobo digging skill would be nice also. It'd be kinda like fishing, the more time you put into it the more you will get out of it down the road.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

And haveing a mineing skill simular to chocobo digging skill would be nice also. It'd be kinda like fishing, the more time you put into it the more you will get out of it down the road.

{Yes, Please!}

I suppose I don't have the Gusgen Mining problem, because I don't go there but
I would love to be able to increase my mining skill. Would be cool if they overhauled
all of the H.E.L.M. and made them more interesting like fishing is. (ex. for Mining:
different picks for different kind of ore)

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

That happened on Ramuh once a while back. I heard from a friend that all the local RMTs in Gusgen got banned for two days. So I grabbed my mining gear and headed into Gusgen. There was no one else mining. I told my LS that the RMTs where gone and a couple ls buddies grabbed their mining gear and came out. Well, the news trickled out and in about an hour there were about 15 people mining. Next day I went back and there had to be at least 30 people in the zone mining.

Mining does need an overhaul. An idea I had once is to remove mining points all together and have it somewhat similar to chocobo digging. Unlike chocobo digging, however, the mine is broken up into 10-20 'mining-sections' that people can mine in with the zone's treasure pool broken up into Waste and the Motherlode.

The Waste treasure pool is the mining sections default. When mining in a section with the Waste treasure pool you'll get a lot of the lower end items (pepples, tin ore, copper ore, etc). The Motherlode treasure pool, on the other hand, randomly moves through the sections overwriting the Waste pool. When a miner discovers they're mining the Motherlode they'll get a lot of the higher end items (higher-quality ores, gold, etc). Once the Motherlode is depleted, it will then randomly re-spawn in another one of the mining-sections.

It doesn't stop botting all together, but at least the botter can't monopolize one point excluding everyone else. Find the motherlode and you might end up with 20 other people mining the section with you, or some ls buddies if you keep it quiet.

Just for clarity: You'll have to swing your pick at the ground yet. There just won't be a point to swing it at. Like scooping goldfish in the river.

First part of the post: That happened on Midgard once, too.

The general LS reaction was "Well, they just proved to us they knew who all the gilsellers are. Why didn't they just ban them alltogether?"

Then there was a kinda uncomfortable silence, and we started talking about whatever big game thing was going on at the time. I think it might have been the ranged attack/accuracy distance patch.




As far as your mining idea, with the Motherload, I like the concept but your application is a little bit off. I dont' beleive the Motherload should be spawned at all times. Like a NM, it should have times when it's up and times when it's not.

I mean if the RMT can run into gusgen, pick pick here, pick pick there, oh the motherload's over here today, that's about the same as patching the mining points to give solid darksteels. (Whch I heard about a patch that did that for certain players...)

No, I think it should be pretty random. Not even on a timer, just a random roll, say once per game hour, to see if the motherlode comes up for that hour.




Off-topic, I saw an interesting hack in middle Delfkutts the other day.

Guy standing around apparently afk.
Guy standing around apparently afk in the same place five minutes later.
Thunder weather icon appears.
Six thunder elementals spawn. (in the room with the guy.)
Six thunder elementals aggro the guy.
It was about then he 'came back from afk' and started wholesale butchering the elementals.

Interesting thing is, you'd expect him to be a thf, have scorpion harness and o-hat. Not so much. He was wearing pld af.

Either a most bizzare glitch, or a rather interesting program hack.

[Xplore]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

Just recently I sent a feedback email to SE commenting on the juxtaposition of HELM activities and Choc digging/Fishing.

There are a couple of things that have been bothering me about mining. The fact that most items that you can get from mining are obainable by Choc digging is very frusterating, seeing as though a high lvl Choc digger has an easier time digging up more rare things, but someone who has mined for a very long time still has the same chances of pulling up a rare ore as a person who has never picked up a pick before. Second is that there are quests/items obtainable to help the dedicated fisherman/choc diggers to make it even easier to get those rare fish/items. Also their levels in thsoe two activites don't prohibit them from taking another craft to 100. Now this doesnt directly apply to HELM b/c there aren't any levels to mining, but it still gives them even more of an advantage over the HELM people by allowing them to utilize the more easily obtained rare items. The HELM system currently just seems to go against every other aspect of the games mechanics.

My suggestion would be to go through the PoL support menu and send them an email if you feel HELM needs to be updated. Try to be clear and courteous in your email and hopefully, wth enough people commenting on this (broken?) system we might see a change.

-Xplore-

[Herrisa]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

Hmm.. sending my suggestion in to SE? I think I will, it just needs to be refined a bit more.

As far as your mining idea, with the Motherload, I like the concept but your application is a little bit off. I dont' beleive the Motherload should be spawned at all times. Like a NM, it should have times when it's up and times when it's not.

I mean if the RMT can run into gusgen, pick pick here, pick pick there, oh the motherload's over here today, that's about the same as patching the mining points to give solid darksteels. (Whch I heard about a patch that did that for certain players...)

No, I think it should be pretty random. Not even on a timer, just a random roll, say once per game hour, to see if the motherlode comes up for that hour.

In an effort not to have gold prices go through the roof because of limited supply, what about this? The motherlode treasure has a limited amount that can be mined. Once the motherlode has been mined-out it would move to another mining section. However, it takes time for the motherload to replenish itself. This can take from 5 - 30 minutes where it can't be mined (miners will get the Waste treasure pool).

Adding in a mining skill, the mining skill helps a player detect if they hit the motherload faster. A player with low mining skill will have to swing his/her pickaxe more times to detect if they hit it or not. A player with a high mining skill would only have to swing the pickaxe once or twice to know. Like a mining instinct in some ways.

The problem with a message across the screen is it makes it easier for bots to detect while going from one section to another. On the other hand, non-bot miners could use the bots to their advantage as they follow them around waiting for them to stop at a place and mine for more that 2-3 swings. You'll know then that the area is the motherlode.

Is using a bot to your advantage considered cheating?

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

I wouldn't be against an arcade-like mining system like the one that's used in fishing. That may just be because I've done the Orichalcum Survey Assault way too many times, and I've found the process to be mindnumbing.

I think both instanced and claimable mining points would be terrible, though. If mining points were instanced, the market would be flooded because supplies would be way too easy to get. If mining points were claimable, you'd have a bot situated at every spawn point ready to take claim whenever it appeared. It'd solidify their pseudo-monopoly on the zone even more.

I also wouldn't complain about having a mining skill, but like chocobo digging, I don't think it would hinder the competition at all who has 24/7 to donate to their "advancement".

[Vyuru]

Re: Does the mining system need an overhaul?

A change to the way mining is done would be nice, it's frustrating to have 5+ people suddenly swarm all over you shortly after you enter Gusgen, and follow you from mining point to mining point mining on top of you all the time. The other non-death trap mining areas (newton movalpolos, ifrit's cauldron) are like the only places that aren't over run with miners, even oldton movalpolos is fairly miner heavy. But actually for that one it kinda works to my advantage, because I can find an out of the way mining point and just camp it, I can't really do that with the other places :/

While I really, really like the Motherload idea (Seriously, Kudos for thinking of it) I would be worried that the RMT would just flock to it instantly once they found it. Maybe make it so that you can still mine up the valuable ores in the junk pool (or maybe reduce the rate a bit) and have a much higher chance of valuable ores in the Motherload area? That way it is harder to monopolize the benefits of the Motherload.