Crusader for justice

[Ziero]

Re: Crusader for justice

SE has done far more then any 'crusader' could ever hope to accomplish to deter RMT. Just because it's not enough to some people does not mean they are not trying. By not participation in RMT I do not support it. By helping others get their high priced gear I help fight it. Though what I do to combat RMT doesn't show the instant gratification and short termm results of MPKing seller, it is completely within the rules and will help far more in the long run.

Impaction, it's clear you have trouble understanding the definition of words. It showed when you claimed to not be a vigilante and it shows with your recent post right now.

The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.

Breaking the 'law' in the name of justice does not create more justice. It's vengance.

Also, if sellers were in such control of the economy it would still be like christmas price wise. Gil sellers don't monopolize BCNMs, ENMs and forced pop gods, every end game LS does them. Anyone can get enough KS to do ODS a few times and there is no one that can stop them. Players are just as much to blame for high prices as gil sellers if not more.

Again, gil sellers didn't jack the prices of archer rings to 6 mil plus, players did.

Double Post Edited:

[e d i t] [Concerning WoW]
And this is heavily influenced by the way in which the items are obtained. There are tons more items because regular mobs can drop a wide array of them. You can kill a <insert random mob here> and get a nice pair of gloves that'll last you 5 levels. You can find everything you need on the AH of course, but you'll also end up finding extra items along the way as you fight. The big ticket items you spoke of are usually exclusive to one instance, so players can actually calculate how rarely it's found when running that particular instance. [/Concerning WoW]


In FFXI the big ticket items also come from rather defined methods. Most come from NMs, and that's what the gilsellers take advantage of most. Players' willingness to purchase items at prices that totally outweigh their actual utility. The game needs more items to take the focus off of specific ones.


If mobs had a wider variety of drops in FFXI I think it would do some good. A level 40 yagudo in castle oztroja dropping level 29 gloves (with no stats) is in no way helpful.....to anyone....mainly because a level 29 player wouldn't even bother using the gloves. If the items/drops were more useful and plentiful, and the AH didn't display price history (as you said), then maybe the economy would be OK, but I'm sure SE knows this already.....

I completely agree with this. And one of the best examples I can give is how the new lvl 55 Peti armor, which only costs a few hundred k, is KILLING the scorp harness markets. What was once a must have has now dropped dramatically. It's gotten as low as 3.5 mil, which is amazing noting it's 20 mil peak in december. Haubs however still remain at 6 mil-ish as the new armor just can't compete with that.

Adding more useful gear, that can replace old 'must haves' with out completely becoming better then them is the best way to slow down gil sellers. If there was a cheaper alternatives to O-kotes at lvl 23 that gave slightly less attack, their prices would drop. Leaping boots and the Emp pin quickly stabalized after they added their R/E alternitives and many other once expensive items are dropping in price due to competitively good equip that everyone can get with a little effort.

I always felt more NMs should drop gear that could be used at the lvl you can solo them at, not everything should need a party to kill. A lvl 15 lizard dropping a lvl 7 pair of boots is a bit much, NMs you can barely solo that drop things that you upgraded from 10 lvls ago never made sense to me. Though I understand the desire to have players group together to take down a strong foe with a good item (Ose and the AJ for example), not *every* mob should be like that.

[Matera]

Re: Crusader for justice

The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.

It's justice in one way, but not in another.

[Ziero]

Re: Crusader for justice

Well to get even more technical, it's still not justice to punish all RMT the same way. Conversly, many non RMT use the same underhanded methods as RMT yet receive no 'player punishment' once again negating this ideal of 'justice' as you do not uphold the standards but mearly pick and choose.

[Kailea]

Re: Crusader for justice

Anyone who even entertains the thought of partying / associating with RMT really deserves everything they get in FFXI. If you can't see how they're slowly destroying the game I'm amazed by your lack of common sense..

Deserve everything I get? from the athority in this game? a GM?, then I will be glad to take my NOTHING......

oh I can see, and know how RMT screws MMOs over, its not that hard to see, but just because I dont agree with what people do, or would rather make friends with nice people......that does not make me an RMT supporter

by the way alot of you sound... if I wear to date a known criminals sister, even though she is legit, that would make me just as bad as him? wow I "love" your logic here.......

[Ryddr]

Re: Crusader for justice

by the way alot of you sound... if I wear to date a known criminals sister, even though she is legit, that would make me just as bad as him? wow I "love" your logic here.......

Poor analogy....though if you were to date the known criminal then you would of course know that he was indeed a criminal, and then you would be placed in a similar category as he. Also you'd be associate to his crimes depending on what you know of them and where you are when they occur. i.e. if you know that he shot someone, but tell no one then you're guilty in some way as well.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Crusader for justice

Thanks Ryddr, saved me the effort of explaining it to him.

[Matera]

Re: Crusader for justice

Well to get even more technical, it's still not justice to punish all RMT the same way. Conversly, many non RMT use the same underhanded methods as RMT yet receive no 'player punishment' once again negating this ideal of 'justice' as you do not uphold the standards but mearly pick and choose.

Yeah, but those players don't mess the economy as much as the gilsellers, nor do they do it to fatten their wallets.

[Kailea]

Re: Crusader for justice

Yeah, but those players don't mess the economy as much as the gilsellers, nor do they do it to fatten their wallets.

lol yeah right, anyone who hacks/bots/steals screws with the game, people (RMT or not) that play by the rules, do not screw the game


you see player or RMT......

I see Honest player or dishonest player.....

Thats how I roll, I have notlasted thsi long, makeing friends with jerks, and I plan to keep it that way.

Really the way some of you think.... I am amazed that you are not in jail right now for doing something "in the name of justice"

and yeah.... Ryddr..... green on black sucks... type in white for gods sake -.-

Oh and some of you still have not answered my question....other then "I should not have to choose"
If you HAD to choose......
1) Honest Gilseller who does not bot or steal or hack (plays the game normaly)
2) Player who hacks, bots and steals.....but is doing it just for his own gane
who would you make friends with if you HAD TO CHOOSE ONE of these two

[Matera]

Re: Crusader for justice

I'd rather there be hackers that SE does stuff about than your best friends running about.

As for our personal lives, you can't really comment on that, can you?

You see it black and white, where all gilsellers are honest, great people, and everybody else commits crimes.

As for having to choose, that's retarded, in no situation would I ever "have to choose something like that".

Why don't you take your retarded points, childish "have to choose" games, horrible grammar, and overused periods and just stop making such a moronic argument? Really, all you're doing is hurting your side of the argument.

Or, do me a favour, actually. Go to Gusgen for a day.

Yeah, there you go, it's a challenge. Put up with the gilsellers. For at least a few hours. You may actually makesome friends! Or you may see where I'm coming from, and why EVERYBODY HATES THE GOD DAMN GILSELLERS.

[Raydeus]

Re: Crusader for justice

It doesn't matter if an RMT is friendly or not, they should all get banned.

The same with all the players that use hacks/exploits/bots etc.


Simply put RMT is bad because of the way it influences the economy, and it also gives an unfair advantage to gilbuyers. It also modifies the way the game works and disrupts the planning from developers.

There's a difference between not breaking the TOS and not affecting the game.

As I said in an earlier post, they (RMT) can hog a NM 24/7 (without using hacks or anything that gives them an advantage) and SE can't do much about it because they are camping using the game mechanics.

However, the game wasn't designed so a group of players would monopolize X NM 24/7, the game's systems were based on a normal player's habits, where the player would play a limited amount of hours a day, giving other players the chance to camp said NM while said player is gone.

The same applies to every activity in the game, what RMT does is that they occupy places that are meant for all players to use, if RMT camps a NM 24/7 that means there will always be a heavy competition for a NM that was designed to have only light competition.

Same with every item in the game RMT puts their hands on, instead of going to a player that is gonna use or sell the item as part of their gameplay it goes to RMT, which makes the player(s) have to camp for more time to get such item (if they ever do).

All of these disrupts the game design and forces the developers to change many things they had planned for the game.

A single player using a hack or an exploit will never have the same impact on the game as a RMT character working 24/7 and occupying a place in the game that was designed for many more players to occupy.

A player that uses a hack to get items and gil will spend them on getting leet gear and all that, eventually those players get bored because the game loses the challenge.

A RMT that works everyday to sell gil will never get bored because they will never be done with selling gil. So while a cheater will only have an impact in his own playing experience the RMT will affect everything related to the item(s) he is dealing with.


So in short, even if RMT had limited effects on the economy, their effect on the game in general is much more dangerous than most players think, as it affects the game's design itself.

[Caspian]

Re: Crusader for justice

Lets keep the personal attacks at a minimum please, and by minimum I mean not at all.

Kailea, I see what issue you're trying to press, but the problem comes in b/c there is no conceivable situation where anyone here would be forced to make that decision. Both would be promptly blacklisted and I wouldn't deal with either.
Actually I was just at a Behe pop. There were a lot of RMT and another guy who wasn't RMT, but was a known bot/hacker. They were all treated like scum.
There are some RMT that I haven't had a personal problem with, basically I just leave them alone whenever I'm mining Gusgen. Which has become a rarity lately. I'd rather not deal with them at all. Even moreso because you never know which player you're going to get behind a character. Some are actually courteous, many others are pricks. Safest just to keep them all at an armslength away and just keep an eye on them. (Occasionally atleast one of them will use warp hacks for a while.)

[piroko]

Re: Crusader for justice

In my openion, gil sellers don't run the economy, players do. Gil sellers would just sell things at the going price, look for high selling items and go camp that.

I personally don't see Gil Seller affecting FFXI that much, I was never MPKed by GS instead everytime I was griefed by greedy players. THFs killing my pets to farm the cockatrice, party camping on top of me when I solo, ect.

From what I see, GS provide the supply of items that people are too lazy to camp themselves, they increase the supply there by lowering / keeping the price at bay. If it was truly a player run ecnomy, inflation would be much, much worst.

X'mas as an example? The fact that a lot of people bought gil and suddenly there's an inflation? Looking at that I still don't blame the GS for selling gil, they're just providing a service that apparently the player base needs.

Another thing, how do you know 100% they're GS? They're on 24/7? I know a few people who combined played one account, spread across HK, London, and Vancouver, they're basically always online, does that make them GS? They're probably not the only ones that does something like that. They MPK/grief? I've been grief by more players than GS.

Harassing, MPK or any form of griefing of -any- player should not be acceptable. Taking the law into your hands does not make you right. If you have 100% proof that they're gil sellers, present it to GMs, only they and SE have the power to judge them.

If you're trying to stop Gil selling, then stop buying gil, encourage others to stop buying gil, help create an economy where things arn't that expensive. Items are only as expensive as people are willing to pay for.

[Matera]

Re: Crusader for justice

Yeah, but who supplies gil to the players en mass?

Griefed by greed? You're a BST, you have mobility in where you camp. most parties are restricted to one of the few safe areas in the zone. As for farming, that's the way things go. People farm, get used to it.

increase the supply there by lowering / keeping the price at bay.

How in the world does that increase their supply? Business is about movement, if they raised the prices, they move more gil, they get more money, so of course they try to raise prices. Even so, the christmas boom was caused by massive amounts of gil being added to the economy by IGE.

X'mas as an example? The fact that a lot of people bought gil and suddenly there's an inflation? Looking at that I still don't blame the GS for selling gil, they're just providing a service that apparently the player base needs.

Because apparantly people can't farm for themselves. The fact that you can't blame them for doing something illegal does not in any shape or form mean they didn't do something illegal.

Another thing, how do you know 100% they're GS? They're on 24/7? I know a few people who combined played one account, spread across HK, London, and Vancouver, they're basically always online, does that make them GS? They're probably not the only ones that does something like that. They MPK/grief? I've been grief by more players than GS.

That's illegal too, sharing account info. Also, there's more signs than being on all the time that tells us if people are sellers. The picture below that I made in 2 minutes looking at maybe 30 screenshots proves it. And I really don't care if they grief people. As far as I'm concerned, they're not a seller to me.

Harassing, MPK or any form of griefing of -any- player should not be acceptable. Taking the law into your hands does not make you right. If you have 100% proof that they're gil sellers, present it to GMs, only they and SE have the power to judge them.

First of all, they should get the fuck off my game that I pay for. If the GMs aren't doing anything about it, I'll D2 to my heart's content. And how do you proove it to GMs? Show the the screens? Excellent idea, now I can get banned for using Windower.

As far as trying to stop buying gil, there's only 2 ways you can do that. Stop the sellers, or stop the buyers. Doing one will stop the other.

You can't stop buyers, because they could be anybody, and as long as there's a product there, somebody WILL buy it, especially when it makes some assholes life a little easier.

Sellers? Only the GMs and SE can stop those, but what have they done? Nothing, capped sending for EVERYBODY. Pretty active counter measures!

If say, there was a law in your city preventing people from stealing babies, but people stole a lot of babies anyways... Would you not be angry? Would you not do something about it? Sure, darksteel ore isn't my child, but in a world where I pay to play and as a customer I want things my way (Along with a large portion of the playerbase), I should be getting that. But, alas, I don't, so I do something about it.

Edit:

As well: they aren't players, they're workers.

I'd also like to start seeing some form of rebuttal... I'm getting sick of basically hearing "but its just wrong!!1"

[Ziero]

Re: Crusader for justice

Kailea, I see what issue you're trying to press, but the problem comes in b/c there is no conceivable situation where anyone here would be forced to make that decision. Both would be promptly blacklisted and I wouldn't deal with either.
Actually I was just at a Behe pop. There were a lot of RMT and another guy who wasn't RMT, but was a known bot/hacker. They were all treated like scum.
There are some RMT that I haven't had a personal problem with, basically I just leave them alone whenever I'm mining Gusgen. Which has become a rarity lately. I'd rather not deal with them at all. Even moreso because you never know which player you're going to get behind a character. Some are actually courteous, many others are pricks. Safest just to keep them all at an armslength away and just keep an eye on them. (Occasionally atleast one of them will use warp hacks for a while.)

This is how the situation should be handled. The few GSers who don't do these things should be ignored at worst otherwise you just make them want to return to you what you do to them.

Edit: Seeing as this seems to go over the heads of many people, I'll spell it out real simple.

If you try to stop RMT by getting rid of sellers, MORE sellers will just start up as the market is still there. People will still WANT to buy it.

If you stop people from buying gil, you kill the market. People won't sell something no one is willing to buy.

Supply and demand. When there is a large demand people will try to increase the supply. With no demand, things sell slower. During christmas a lot of people got a lot of 'extra' cash and decided to blow it all on gil. When people started throwing it around, people threw up their items at inflated prices to milk the situation for all that it was worth. It's not the RMT who control the economy, it's the average players.

[piroko]

Re: Crusader for justice

Yeah, but who supplies gil to the players en mass?

Griefed by greed? You're a BST, you have mobility in where you camp. most parties are restricted to one of the few safe areas in the zone.

-BSTs- have limited camps, parties have a -lot- more options than BSTs for camp. How many places supplies EM charmable mobs with T-VT prey along side? We used to be able to drag pets around to -make- EM pets be side by side to our prey but not anymore. Compair that to a party that can camp anywhere there's a relatively safe spot and IT prey.

Play a job before you comment on it.

As for farming, that's the way things go. People farm, get used to it.

So it's right for you to barge in on my camp but not the opposit?

How in the world does that increase their supply? Business is about movement, if they raised the prices, they move more gil, they get more money, so of course they try to raise prices. Even so, the christmas boom was caused by massive amounts of gil being added to the economy by IGE.

Oh, why is it that whenever something's out of stock I don't see a GS's name on the next sold item that is raised another 20-30%?