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[lionx]

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I personally think China was ever weak pre-communist when the poor class banded together and try to do something like this. If China was actually a weak country in general, they would not have lasted over 5000 years of history and would fall right with the Romans. China is indeed very strong in the past before, however it has declined in the 1900s with the communism fisaco, yet lately it has been rapidly catching foot again much faster than what most expect. Also they have nukes, which prevented Russia from nuking their asses >< Just because you have some, it means no one can touch you without some consequences. Not to say China is not backwards(i hear many a time how US and Chinese gunboats were compared..its a joke..;o ) and does not need more improvements, but i still think given the right times, they will improve, you give them far too little credit i feel.

The only real thing i want really is that, i hope America doesnt push their ideals onto other countries like they did Iraq, i rather a country develop on its own, and i dont think China has any risk tbh of going wrong at this moment. You might disagree but thats my view on the subject matter.

Hong Kong i dont really think is a nation per say X3 more like just a fragment of China that was taken over for(i forget...) soso years by the Brits. I also dont believe Taiwan and S.Korea would go so far without American support in which i feel is there only because they dont like N.Korea and China and want to weaken them more than want to help them. It might also be the fact that since China is so huge, it isnt as easy as these small places in terms of change. I am way behind the times so...i need to catch up -_-; *kills college*.

To what you addressed by Kuu, i personally feel America wants Taiwan to back them up in case something happens, America is great for giving other nations the resources to fight but never actually fighting it in and get war losses.

But yeah down with RMT..or more to the fact..down with people having lot sof money to burn and spend it on something so...so...wtf-ish...@_@

[Blood Red Poet]

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Japan censors genitals in pornagraphic images.

[WishMaster3K]

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I look at what America is doing, and failing horribly at, in Iraq, and I can't help but draw parallels to what they did to Japan and Germany during WW2.

Look at where those countries are financially, and it was because after WW2, America was the only country with the funds to rebuild the rest of the world. In essence, the Japanese and German economies of that time were modeled after American aspects, and now look at where those countries are, financially.

It shames me to see Iraq failing so horribly, in terms of what it means to "rebuild" a country, and it seems like this Administration missed a few lessons from the RTS Handbook of what to do when you take over a country: No holds barred, taking no names, being complete dicks. We beat them militarily, and now it's time to carpet bomb them.

Not give thtem aid and shit, having our soldiers blown up by "civilians" and losing more lives than necessary.

I'm a liberal by heart, but I don't agree with either the liberal or conservative policies. I think the current American government is stiffled by it's own beurocracy, and the reason Iraq has been dragged out so damned long and so many soldiers keep dying is because for SOME reason, we forgot we're Americans, and can do whatever the fudge we want without caring what the rest of the world thinks, because who the hell are they to tell US what we can't do, and who is the UN to impose sanctions on us?

Ok, that was a lot of rage, but I feel that a lot of problems here at home are cause we started being "nice guys" and stopped being "ass-kickers"

[Omni]

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its human nature. everyone is an opportunist deep down. as calito said... the streets is watching.

i think you meant to say the other way around lionx. america just have lots of vested interests in taiwan b/c of its production and wealth. its such a retarded situation. the us has a treaty with taiwan that they would protect them from invasion but they also have some other thing with china saying how its a 1 china world blah blah blah. things dont make sense, and sometimes, they just arent ever meant to be.

hk is its own government. own currency own economy. yea it technically isnt a nation but before the hand over, it was considered its own... entity i suppose. it had nothing to do with the mainland other than being connected to it. it didnt need the mainland. it sustained itself just fine. now hk is starting to feel the wrath of communism. they have began protesting about how china wants to impose such and such rules on them when they just want to be left alone like before. not going to happen.

on a rmt note, se is trying! for all the nay-sayers, ya there might be ways around this but as someone else said in the respective thread, they sure are making it a pain in the ass for them rmt. i think this is a realistic approach. you cant stop someone from trading gil but to make absurd amounts of trade a pain? great job.

[Aeni]

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Japan censors genitals in pornagraphic images.

Not in manga though. I mean, what is up with the one 0.5 cm black strip across a depiction of manhood that is as wide as the manga itself (I mean, why bother?) and the two thin black strips on the female genitalia (Like, you couldn't use imagination and see the rest of it in your mind? omg ...)

But getting back on track...

I remember once my dad told me if they swept communism in China away as quickly as they did in Russia, there would be such instability we'd have plunged into World War III and possibly IV (if we're not all wiped by then) a long time ago.

I think most people think it's so easy just to get rid of a socio-political structure overnight that they forget about all the issues that's right under their noses, like when and where is their next meal going to come from, never mind about keeping law and order in a country housing 1/5 the world population in 1/15 of the world's livable land mass ...

[kuu]

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All besides the fact that China isn't really so much commuism as it is more fascism.

So many US/westerns have been ingrained since birth about the "evils" of communism, when they don't even know what communism really is. Heck, most people should love communism in theory due to how demonizing we put big businesses these days.

China is communism in mostly name these days. In some ways current US is even more then China if taken at a different angle.

It's much cleaner if people stick to issues rather then general name calling like "stop being communist and live better". That's like talking to a door to door salesman. The angle is just way skewered.

The genital stuff in Japan is a blanket wide ban. A moziac, black slash, anything to get around the ban. Some believe that the origin of "tenticles" in manga, was an extention of that. Also the fact of no pubic hair. All this to move it out of "actual genital" skirting.

Anything not censored is made outside of Japan markets. I.E. JAV they would sell to the West, but never in Japan..at least not through official channels.

Basically it's mostly our fault, as after WWII, US tried to "civilized" Japan's "barbaric" society of violence, and they were in no position to decline.

[Omni]

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All besides the fact that China isn't really so much commuism as it is more fascism.

So many US/westerns have been ingrained since birth about the "evils" of communism, when they don't even know what communism really is. Heck, most people should love communism in theory due to how demonizing we put big businesses these days.

yea in theory, but corruption in the hearts of men is what kills it. everything is fine and dandy in theory. in this world, nothing stays in theory for too long before going astray.

[kuu]

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yea in theory, but corruption in the hearts of men is what kills it. everything is fine and dandy in theory. in this world, nothing stays in theory for too long before going astray.

There are some small nations that have worked out somewhat commuism pretty well. So we know it does work, and people can be happy.

The problem is on large scale nations, any theory fails. Just like US isn't a democracy neither is China much of a communist.

So any down- with-commuism, is about as hypocritic as down with democacy.

China has many issues, communism isn't one of them, ironic how we demonize it.

[Caspian]

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There are some small nations that have worked out somewhat commuism pretty well. So we know it does work, and people can be happy.

The problem is on large scale nations, any theory fails. Just like US isn't a democracy neither is China much of a communist.

So any down- with-commuism, is about as hypocritic as down with democacy.

China has many issues, communism isn't one of them, ironic how we demonize it.

Agreed, communism in theory is a utopia. Everyone working for the good of their brethren. Problem is, like you said, on a grand scale it just doesn't work. "Why should I bust my ass for some person I'll never meet on the other side of the country." If it works on a smaller scale its b/c you know virtually everyone and its much easier to work to help people you know, as well as much harder to screw over people around you when everyone knows who you are.

Wishmaster, I know this sounds cliche, and it is, as well as being from Spiderman. "With great power comes great responsibility." The very fact that we're in a position to help people dictates that we should help them. Also, just b/c we're widely considered to be the world's last remaining superpower doesn't mean we're invulnerable, if enough of the world decided to kill us all, it would happen. Regardless of the presence of WMD's in Iraq (btw, WMD's don't just entail nuclear weapons, other WMD's were found in Iraq, there's something you don't hear about on tv very often) Hussein was comitting genocide everyday and had his country in an iron grip. We were in a position to do something about it, so we did. Its not right to basically annihilate a country's government, then just bid them adieu and head off into the sunset. Yes, it does seem to be taking a long time (keep in mind 99% of media is very left wing and doesnt like the war, telling you about the good things going on isn't good for business or their political ideals), but seeing how I don't think any of us are well versed in the best ways to completely rebuild a country to be independent I don't think its fair to say what is an acceptable time frame. I digress. Just because you can go around beating people up, doesn't mean you should. Especially if your strength would be better put to use by helping others.

[WishMaster3K]

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OH man Caspian, what's interesting is how we use our power. I agree 100% with you, and if the entire world decided to team up and say "no, bullies, stop it" we'd be screwed.



But would they? Imagine a world without the US, and how there'd be no big guy keeping things in check. It's an equilibrium, with us on one side of the scale and the rest of the world on the other.

Ok, now moving on, I agree with you 100%, but let me spin it a bit:

We can help the world, hell, the world would be utopia right now if only American policy on how to spend the government budget changed. The US spends in excess of 75% of the budget for military purposes. Think about that shit for a second, cause WHO THE FUCK ARE WE GOING TO FIGHT? The martians better invade so we can put all our active reserve soldiers to good use, cause I see a lot of fruitless money simply being wasted.

It'd be funny to have, say, a gamer as president with what we have at our disposal. It'd be like having 40 fully equiped carriers in StarCraft and NOT having the urge to use them.

Imagine if you will, how much of Africa can be saved if America only spent 25% of the budget on weapons (cause everyone needs defense >.>, let's be honest. 9/11 showed that there are ppl who have the capacity to hurt americans) and decided to use 25% for food and medicine to Africa and another 25% on education.

Imagine a place where American students actually were able to point out their state's capital on a map, distinguish the European countries, and actually speak a second language.

Madness! Madness!

But no, 3/4 of the budget is used to fight largely invisible enemies.








And don't get me started on the media. The media is largely the reason why this country is so divided and in the shithole. We get force-fed fear every night, with stories of murders and beatings, then we get shown the "horrors" of war and such.

What bugs me is that
A) War is hell, don't expect it to be dandelions and shit. Christ, I hate the media moguls who have the audacity to talk bad about our troops who are risking their lives simply cause it's their job. Hate the cause or love it, they're there and they need support back home. Seeing Jarhead made me realize that.
B) The media is in private aspects of ppl's lives. Know how much shit Robert Kennedy and John Kennedy did in office? How many women they banged, how much illegal shit they did in the hallowed halls? Blackmailing photos were sent to publications nationwide, but back then, the presidency was a position of respect, so their personal lives were kept behind the scenes. No one wanted their president's privates splattered all over the front page.

Now in a time where the smallest slip will mean you lose support, and the media competition for good stories is like throwing a fish into the middle of a pool of sharks, politicians (who are dirty bastards by nature) have to keep their accusers quiet. Why are so many damned lobbiests still around? Ciggarettes, alcohol, all bad for you. Why can college students get weed and alcohol, and cocaine?

Why is AIDs running rampantly, unchecked, while Big Tobacco is still killing people every minute?

It's an effed up world in general.

[x1ang]

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American policy isn't all that great. Communism results in pretty much balanced economic classes. On the otherhand, in capitalism what is the result? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Look at American society now, it has more than a handful of problems.

Our society has resulted in the economic gap between the rich and poor to become larger and larger. Is it a land of economic freedom? Hardly. The poor are located in low-funded and poorly-managed districts, while the rich exploit off this. Welfare does nothing to help move the poor out of the spiral of poverty - all it does is provide a way to simply "get by."

Sure, it's nice to have all these governmental programs and stuff. But in truth, most programs run by the government are near failures. Look at Native Americans, they are still one of the most economically challenge group in the U.S.; furthermore, they actually receive governmental aid.

And what is "true freedom?" Apparently to many Americans, marriage isn't one of them. Of course, true freedom is illogical, but I'm just saying..

[Caspian]

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Welp, since we're already way OT, I'll help out just a bit more.
Tobacco, don't count on it being gone any time soon. The taxes on a single pack are ungodly. Phillip Morris has to sell as many packs as they do b/c so much of every purchase goes to the government. Its a cash cow, now politicians will say that they don't want it (a small minority may even actually mean it) but the fact is it just makes too much money for them to force it into the black market.

As for government spending, it seems to me to be a bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing. We spend the money we are now on our military. Our military becomes arguably the most powerful in the world. But if we don't spend that money on our military, then our enemies see us as being weak and grow more bold in their attacks. If we don't spend the money we run a much greater risk of being attacked. Sort of a pick your poison thing, either spend the money and it doesn't seem to do much good, or don't spend it and risk inviting more attacks.
Its funny, year or two ago when the stocks took a nosedive it was all over every news channel. Now, stocks are going up again, a lot, and you don't hardly hear a word unless you actually go look for it. Like you said, the f***ing media.

And now for my on-topic comment: RMT sucks, just because China was so receptive to it, doesn't mean that this law will actually be able to be enforced, nor does it mean that there aren't 10 other countries that could be exploited for it. The greedy attain wealth by being resourceful. They know how easy it was to establish companies like IGE (not even sure if its China based, just an example) and how easily there operations can be moved, even more easily now that they have more capital from these last couple years.

Responding to Xiang's post since it made it up before mine:
Separation of classes occurs in all economies. USSR had a HUGE separation of classes, with virtually no middle class at all. I think thats less a part of a government or economy and more a part life. In America its possible for someone from a lower class household to dedicate themselves and become greater than what they once were. It may require more dedication and hardwork than to maintain the status quo, but it is often possible.

As for marriage, thats why states can vote for themselves on what is considered a lawful marriage. Determining what constitutes one is not a power the federal government has. It was not granted to them in the drafting of the Constitution.

[lionx]

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Actually who needs smokes the most? The smokers, the tax only makes them lose more money because philip morris doesnt get any loss, smokers will always want more smokes, the nicotine drives them. Or so i feel anyway.

Wasnt it sorta established a while ago that IGE is an American run company? They just put their HQ elsewhere where theres internet and also where laws cannot reach hence why its more of a hassle to go around since i know sometimes courts actually favor the RMT's side(i think i read it somewhere a LONG time ago..).

and Marriages should be availible to anyway IMO >_> But thats wayy off topic.

[x1ang]

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Yeah, there were a lot of holes in my post >.>

Like Lionx said, even if a major gilselling company likes IGE is closed, the market would simply pick up again. As long as there is a demand, any smart business would become a supplier.

In terms of China being "dumb" in their enforcement, think of things in their position. It is a political group trying to maintain nearly absolute power over the country. In the past, censorship is a lot easier; however, with new technology, it becomes harder and harder to do so. In the motives of the government, yes, it's a smart move on their part... is it effective? Apparently so. The thing is it seems that the country is slowly adapting to the modern view of "freedoms." For instance, they now follow a near-capitalistic economy.. and it does help boost their economy (yet, the poor again are oppressed -_-.. mining companies > villages, etc etc). A sudden move to a democracy or republic would not be a smart choice (even though it's obvious that the current government really has no intention of doing so >.>)

Do I believe in U.S. intervention? Yes, however, I also think that the U.N. was founded for that reason. Furthermore, the weakness of the U.N. is the fact that it basically relies on U.S. involvement. Yet, as seen in the Afganistan and Iraq issues, the U.S. has basically proved to the world that the U.N. is quite helpless and useless.

[qaitakalnin]

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let me start by saying i truly believe in the idea of the United Nations, a place where nations can gather and air grivences without going to war, where policies can be debated and talked over and hopefully concensus can be reached....

Having said that, the UN is freakin broke, and yeah it is because it relied on the US to enforce basically all of its resolutions. But there is another reason, and this reason is partialy (big part unfortunately) to blame on my home and beloved country the United States, no country wanted, wants, will give up part, some, all of its soverenty to a basically foreign body that it doesn believe in, that is why the UN has little influence in the world and that is why it will always be that way. But it doesnt have to be, the UN can be a good thing, the idea is sound, the way it has been running isnt, whether we like it or not it still takes one person (or in the case of the UN one country) to stand up and say "This is how it is going to be cause this is what has been decided by the majorty as the best way to do this the rest of you get in line." That may seem a bit harsh and to some extent it is, but that is the way it is that is the way it has to be otherwise what really gets done.

As far as communism vs. captilism well i have argued that communism would work on a village scale, i still think it would (friends of mine though say it wouldnt), but communism works under the assumption that everyone is looking out for what is best for the state....which as we all know is simply not the case. There are people that do look out for the state and there are people who dont, and communism would work if everyone was behind the ideal that we are working to better the state and that my place is wherever the state deems it to be...which sorry i like having the choice of what i am going to do, even if that is be a criminal (is a choice that people make which denys them other choices in life), and if that betters the state and those around me yeah for me, but you know what if it doesnt and i am not hurting anyone then i should be allowed that as well.

Captalism works because it allows for growth of the people. You say the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, well i will submit to you that the rich get richer because they are doing things that make them richer (continueing good investments saving not living beyond their means) and the poor get poorer because they are doing things that require more money than they take in. Now I do believe that there are times when people will simply be down on their luck and need the help of the government and i do support that aspect of welfare, what has happend is that some people see that as "free" money thinking "I dont have to do anything cause i will be completly supported by the state and i dont have to do anything". Is this over simplification, yeah, but is also what has basically happend.

Capatlism in general, the US specifically, isnt perfect, but what it does, one of the things that is so nice about both is that they allow for growth of people despite, and sometimes inspite, of the government.

And now that we are so far off course from the original purpose of the thread i will stop typing as i have been ranting entirely too long. Have fun everyone and please if you think i am totaly off my rocker let me know i love a good debate.