Lone wolves and FFXI

[Eue]

Hullo !

I am just about to get started with FFXI after speaking to a very enthusiastic RDM co-worker. Muy interessante, but I have some questions about soloing. Personally, I have a bad impression about MMORPG grouping since the first (and last) one I played was Everquest, which was annoying as hell for grouping (and other reasons). I have been talking to my buddy about this, and also I have been looking up tons of websites, and it seems that :

1) Soloing is very difficult unless :

2) You are a Red Mage, Beastmaster, or High Level Character

3) You need a party to get the cool stuff (armor, etc.)

4) The game will go slower when you solo

I would like to know if any of this is accurate, as I have also seen web sites/forum posts that say, in effect :

1) Soloing is easy

2) It is better to solo until level 15-20, because

3) You gain XP faster when you solo

4) It is often very hard to find a party, and even harder to find a good party

I intend to solo as often as possible. I also intend to be Taru and female (if that helps). Are there other jobs besides Red Mage and Beastmaster that would be decent ? I am prepared for any trade-offs/consequences, and will not be angry if things take a little longer, it's just that there's tons of people out there who say one cannot solo in FFXI at all, and others that say something totally different....

Hope this is not a rambling post. Thanks in advance for any responses.

[Rodin]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

Soloing as in farming items from low levels monsters for gil...yes....
Soloing as in fighting monsters for XP.....You only solo from about 1-10;15 You can get to 15 soloing without much of a hassle. Soloing past 15 is VERY annoying, and VERY slow. BSTs can solo mobs and XP at any level, but in my experience some of the biggest assholes I've ever met are BST...the ones who XP where parties XP (i.e. Valkurm Dunes on lizzies, garlaige citadel where one slip up, you can wipe an entire party. Eastern Altepa Desert by the Western Altepa Desert Zone...list goes on.) But soloing isn't a viable means of XP otherwise. Yes, you can solo 300 XP as RDM, but it takes 30-40 minutes, where as in an xp party in the same 30minutes, you can get 2,000 to 4,000 XP depending on the party.

[Macht]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

Well sounds like you got a bit of it right. RDMs are very powerfull but only after they reach a certain point, it is not like they are better then any other job from start. BST is the easiest to solo, but even that job itself is not very easy. The JSE (Job Specific Equipment), Genkai's, Dynamis, HNMs, and various other end game stuff is impossible for a BST to solo.

Soloing with most jobs will take a horrible dive at about lv. 10. It is lv. 10 that generally parties start with at least 1-3 other people around 13-15 it usually gets more into full parties because of the speed in gaining EXP.

At the minimum if you are not going to do full parties then the right job combinations doing duo will work, still slow. You only gain exp fast solo with a job like BST, but still good party combinations are likely to beat you still. The difficulty of finding a party depends much on the job you go with, that servers demand for that job, as well as how well your equipment is and subjob properly skilled (Last two sometimes won't matter).

It is hard to find a good party, many players after a certain level will form static parties in which that group EXPs and gains levels together this tends to end up with hoping for an invite to become less likely the further up in level you go. Any job capable of good ranged damage is able to solo, the problem is it does take a long time and the monsters you can kill solo are very specific.

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

This game is solely based on teamwork, even the PvP is based on teamwork.

[Susurrus]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

If you don't like doing stuff with other people, don't play an MMORPG. In that sense, if you don't like doing things in groups, don't play FFXI.

[Eue]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

k - thanks for the insight/info. I am still the solitary loner type, but at least I can now make a more informed decision about exactly what that is gonna cost me..... While on the subject, I guess I should also ask about expectations for partying vs. linkshells. Can you only party with people in your linkshell ? Is that considered "rude" ? Do you need a linkshell to party ?

The only reason why I ask, is that on the EQ server I was on (before I quit) there was an expectation that a character would only group with their guild, or other guilds "approved" or allied with the player's guild. SO, when grouping, is was not unusual to run into people who would say "Why aren't you with your guild ?" or "Who are they ?" and refuse to group. Is FFXI like that ? Or is it expected that people with band and disband as conditions arise - guild/linkshells notwithstanding ?

My other concerns seem to be centered around many negative posts (at many forums) about people who suck at partying. Breifly, what other expectations are there about partying ? I have found leveling guides for every job, and every craft, but no guides aimed at what makes one competent when partying.... am still searching thru this forum as well, actually. I like this forum because the overall posting seems to be done by thoughtful people who know their stuff.... thanks again for your replies.

[Caspian]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

Until the later levels, most linkshells are purely for social reasons, with the occasional grouping for a random mission or something. You can party with whoever you want.
Yes, a lot of people are bad at partying, but they are quickly becoming the minority. There are a lot of people who know how to play their job and do just fine. You will probably be in the occasional party that just sucks, but this is more commonly due to a bad party setup with jobs that just dont mesh at all.
But, as was said earlier, unless you're playing BST you will have a very hard time soloing past 15 or 20. And even with BST xp wont be as good as it is in parties.
Good luck to you though, hope you decide to play.

[Jei]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

FFXI grouping is a lot different than EQ. LS-only grouping is not common. I can say I've never seen 1 myself.... There are people forming statics among friends or people they like but forcing to group within LS only would be impossible imo :D there are a few characteristic you need to know, combine them together and you'll get the picture.

1. A party needs a balance jobs. I think it's the same in any MMO, you have tanks, you have DDs, you have healers and mages, etc.

2. the EXP of the group is determined by the *highest* level member in the group. Meaning, if everyone are level 10 killing level 15 monster, everyone will get equal share of 175 exp (im just making up the numbers)
But if 1 member happen to be 12 and everyone else 10, the exp of everyone will drop tp 100 or lower.

From 1 and 2 combined together it makes it pretty impossible to limit grouping within LS. You will lack certain jobs to make the group efficient and the level of members might not be close to each other. Being able to change jobs anytime you want kind of help you play with friend a bit easier, but not always guaranteed. Unless you plan out with your friend ahead when to level and wait for each other as you play.

partying... lower level can be quite painful yea... It's a mix really. The higher you go the more portion of the players become more skilled and at 60+ you can kinda expect 70% of players to know what they're doing.

[DakAttack]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

As long as you just relax you'll do fine with parties.

This is the kind of game where everything takes time. Not as much time as EVE, but time nonetheless. You'll make a name for yourself between friends and even people you don't know. You'll meet a lot of new people, and make a lot of friends and basic aquantinces. You'll help people out, be helped, and you'll achieve goals as a group rather than alone. What's so great about reaching a goal if you don't have people to share it with?

[Pounce]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

Not as much time as EVE, but time nonetheless.

Lol, offtopic, but...

I got a lot further, faster, in EVE, despite the fact that I didn't play that game as hardcore as I did FFXI.

Anyways, back to the OP: FFXI isn't a soloing game. In fact, it's arguably one of, if not *the* most hardcore forced grouping game on the market today. If you really prefer soloing, I would suggest other games that are cater more towards that market segment (i.e. WoW).

[Malachite]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

If you're that serious about soloing, don't play this game. World of Warcraft or the upcoming City of Villains would be better choices for you.

If you want to play solo most of the time in FFXI, choose beastmaster or you will regret even trying to solo. Dragoons and redmages can solo decently, but it is a SLOW process. VERY SLOW. It isn't even fun!

I'm typically a player that prefers soloing. The hassle of finding a group is not there. Being self-sufficient. Going where I want, when I want. Being able to waste no time and do whatever until friends or guild are available to do something together. Typical desires but this game punishes most of them. It isn't even very fun to solo this game.

The game mechanics in FFXI are nearly a ripoff of Everquest, but one thing it did differently is that grouping is required. For damn near everyone. Beastmasters are FFXI's necromancers. Except that most groups won't want them in their parties(mostly out of prejudice), unlike necromancers.

Others have touched on your listed points a little, but to clarify;

1) Soloing is very difficult unless :

Soloing is often difficult, unrewarding and can be slow.

2) You are a Red Mage, Beastmaster, or High Level Character

Other jobs can kill high level enemies by themselves, but it is very slow and sometimes inefficient. Beastmaster is the job you pick to solo.

3) You need a party to get the cool stuff (armor, etc.)

True. There are plenty of nice choices of equipment from Auction Houses, but the best is gained from grouping with others. As a beastmaster you will gain a large amount of beastman seals, which can be used to make money. But oh! You use these seals to group up with other players and overcome various challenges.

4) The game will go slower when you solo

If you aren't a beastmaster, very true. Sometimes beastmasters can gain experience on par with normal parties. Beastmaster groups can sometimes gain experience faster than average parties.

Others may disagree but the best parts about this game are everything BUT the leveling up process. Soloing makes one of the worst parts even worse. One of the reasons I still play this game is because I met some great people and we like to play the game with each other doing various random crap. Burning circle battles, missions, HNM, ballista(PVP), camping Notorious monsters, or just simple stuff like quests or leveling NPC henchmen.

If you're going to be that adamant about soloing, I do not think you will enjoy this game. And this is from someone who often thinks the same as you.

[DakAttack]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

Some people, btw *gasp*, think soloing is fun in FFXI. As a beastmaster you aren't forced to solo, you can duo or trio, and not just with other beastmasters. I've seen Bsts and Smns duo, Bsts and Drgs duo, etc. Beastmasters, Summoners, and Dragoons can all solo efficiently with a Whm sub. All you have to know is where and at what level and you're set.

I watched a Taru Drg solo T crabs in Kuftal with ease, and I see Summoners doing it all the time.

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

At level 75, a BLM can solo elementals in sky for 200-240(without the awesomeness of exp rings) exp and clusters. Its as risky as soloing as a level 13 BST lol. You can't really chain them easily, so its not super good exp.

[aegina]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

soloing for exp in this game is painfully, painfully slow. even bsts prefer to be in small parties of 2 or 3. you mentioned red mages. red mages almost never, ever try to solo for exp. at the higher levells, it can easilly take 10 minutes for a red mage to kill one mob. red mages typically only solo a mob if they want some item he drops, which is the only real reason any job would solo-kill any mob... dragoons sometimes solo for some xp, but that isn't until level 60 when they get some special equipment that makes it possible. And even then, they're only soloing while they wait for a pt invite.
as said above, this is not a soloing game. i like that, i like to pt. that's why i play this game.

(that and i don't own a pc, so i don't have many choices in the matter )

however, partying in this game isn't bad. remember the game is based around the idea of forced grouping. 90% of all the people i've played with have been awesome at partying and at playing in a group. in this game, grouping is fun and effective.
lfg, however, is not... i make most of my own pt's so i don't have to wait for an invite. my suggestion: give it a chance. don't knock partying until you try it. remember this game is built around it.

EDIT: on another topic, what is it, exactly, about grouping that you didn't like?
double edited: oops, fixed a typo in my first edit

[Eue]

Re: Lone wolves and FFXI

EDIT: on another topic, what is it, exactly, about soloing that you didn't like?

By this, I assume you mean what I don't like about grouping ?:-)

Well, as I mentioned before, the last MMORPG I played was Everquest, which was a very toxic group atmosphere. Guilds - the EQ equivalent of linkshells - were so horribly snotty and selective. And almost every decent mid-to-high level character was in one. Which meant that forming a group for even a short amount of time often got political. The people on the server in general were very narcissistic types, all in it for themselves, etc. Most of my negative reaction to grouping comes from that background.

Also, I really do like to go off on my own and not be totally dependant on others. Although now that I have started actually playing, I am relieved that the FFXI gaming community is nowhere near as chaotic as the EQ server I was on. Granted, there are jerks all over, but I suppose the slower pace of things - as well as quests, missions, and crafting objectives that actually mean something - has filtered out a lot of more abrasive types.

What I did not know at the time of my OP - but as someone has mentioned earlier - is that grouping in FFXI is not as selective or restrictive at all. Apparently, it is a party-for-the-moment, easy-come-easy-go sort of thing. Parties can form at will and there are no long term commitments expected, or strange looks when someone from the "wrong" group/guild/clan/LS is looking for a group. And that I think I can handle. That is to say, having some control over when/where I group, and not getting treated like s*ht just because I am not a high level character in ubergear.

Between levelling the basic jobs, the trade skills, and the various quests and missions, there seems to be plenty to do on a solo basis. Once I figre out which job I want to go further with, I can group at key moments and be done with it. Have only been playing for a week now, but it seems FFXI is much more mellow, with a more mature bunch of people on it...

ON a related note, I will always keep an eye out to see how much of the armor questing (RSE comes to mind) as well as the other advanced stuff that is solo-able. I'll also need to see how things are handled in a group if, say, everybody wants to unlock a subjob quest at the same time (for instance). Will all 4-6 people in a party be able to perform the quest duties, or will the party need to kill the same monsters 4-6 times ? What is considered good protocol for that situation ? Was planning to save that question for when I was closer to level 15 and starting a new thread/topic....