FFXI Etiquette Guide

[Nodoka]

>1/5 NA PTs suffer from the same problem, which is impatience. JP players will wait to find a perfect PT setup, whereas the NA PT will just take whatever they can get and start fighting.

I dont believe those statistics. I've been in NA parties that took an hour to form with awesome EXP. Yet just yesterday I was in a real half-assed JP party with a War as a tank (wtf?) and too many mages. Needless to say agro control was non-existant and the pt really sucked.

>Given time, we too could and probably will attain the same degree of skill they have, but while we have not reached that state, why not learn from them instead?

I see ton of NA just as skilled as JP players. Sure they dont have those millions of gil worth of gear, earned in those many years of playing, but they were doing good enough exp.

[Talonus]

Lets go over a couple of m3ro's points with some of my set pt's antics over the past few weeks. As an ahead note, for exp we average 4k/hour and never drop below 3k/hour ever. As a basis, the party is a base of mnk/war, mnk/war, whm/blm, and brd/whm.

less deaths, more party organization as well as better PT communication

This is BS. I can't remember the last time I died in my set party, barring Guivre eating me once. Played for some catchup exp in a JP party (4 JP, two NA) a bit ago, and there was a wipeout because the JP puller pulled four and the JP blm didn't have escape at 57. Yes, you heard me right.

I have been in PTs which thought that 5 melee players and 1 whm would be good exp.

We created a nin/war, mnk/war, mnk/war, mnk/war, whm/blm, brd/whm party about a week ago in Teriggan. Not exactly your setup, but close. We averaged 4.5k/hour. Nobody died. Did it because we wanted to have a group full of friends.

. JP players will wait to find a perfect PT setup, whereas the NA PT will just take whatever they can get and start fighting.

I've not seen this done since... level 20ish. Perhaps you should form your own parties if this is such a problem.

Moreover, a small number of PTs don't even have skillchain setups

Depending on your setup, this can be a GOOD idea. Unless you have a blm, its often better to have the melees solo WS. And in crowded mob areas where you can only have a decent renkei with AE WSs, its better to go solo as well.

some even mispull due to poor communication, causing multiple targets to be pulled at the same time.

If you have a bard, who cares if pull two mobs? Pulling two so you don't have to go looking for the fifth mob in a chain isn't exactly abnormal either. Three pulled shouldn't be much of a problem. Once you hit four, yeah its time to escape. Nobody should die though.

I am not putting them on a pedestial

Yeah you are. You're making broad generalizations and putting them on a pedestal.

Given time, we too could and probably will attain the same degree of skill they have, but while we have not reached that state, why not learn from them instead?

Who's to say they all have a high level of skill? I've met plenty of people who were great and sucked on both sides. I've met plenty of people who had plenty to learn on both sides. I'd very much doubt you'd agree to learn something from a NA.

[Trimpton]

If the people who play dont have common respect for people knowing there is a real player behind each of the avatars(common sense) isnt going to change by reading some guide. If you cant handle yourself in a community of fellow real players without treating your fellow community respect a simple guide isnt going to change them.

Maybe Iam just cynical, I think Iam just a realist.

-- There are good and bad jp players, I have kicked bad jp players out of groups (who where rank 8), I have also had the unfortune of meeting several with bad ediquette (not culture barrier, they were just being an ass)... Ie Calling for help on last second warping himself out.

Tired of everyone having this view of JP players do no wrong - MOST of their community is racist.. You dont see "Eigo Only" you see "JP Only".

So there are assholes no matter what country you live in, and player skill does not come from where you are born its about the person behind the computer.

[Trimpton]

Umm... Tukka when you broadly generalize a culture for "bad playing" then segregate yourselves from playing with those players.. Thats pretty racist.

You do not see any "Eigo Only" tags just the "Jp Only" -- weather you like it or not but segrating game play is racist.

Racism is when you prejudge a person on their race, Many JP players will refuse to play with American payers soley on their race. There is no if ands and buts about this.. its simple racism.

Hoping for self improvement of a whole community by a guide is like hoping for world peace... hey itd be nice... but its not likely to happen.

Its was posted here several times that JP players are better organized , better at pts, etc .. so its completely relevant.

[Tukka]

Alright, I'm deleting a couple of my previous posts in this topic because I don't think it's having a very constructive impact on the discussion. You are entitled to your opinion as to what constitutes racism, and how remarks made by myself and others in this topic should be construed, and I'll let you have them.

I'm just going to focus on my "hopeless cause" of improving the etiquette and skill of my fellow players, NA and JP alike, whenever possible, and improving the perceptions these two communities have of each other. I don't want to spark divisive debate and commentary on what's obviously a pretty touchy subject.

I do agree with some of the sentiments expressed that it would have been better to leave out any mention of how the NA apparently community is perceived by the JP community, and how the NA's conduct and skill differs from that of the JP community, because it encourages discussion that can lead to sideline discussions that to some extent may defeat the main intent of the thread.

I know racism exists, and other problems exist as well within the community, but I'd rather discuss them elsewhere.

[m3r0]

look, if you guys want to debate whether i'm an idiot who elevates JP players to a god-like status and that NA players are just as skilled, feel free to make another topic, one that I won't participate in since you like to delude yourselves into thinking that we are not inexperienced. What you have posted only applies to PTs lvl 40 and up, but with the PS2 players coming in, do you think playing 40 levels to learn all these is time worth spent? I'm merely posting some common manners to observe and everyone wants to chew me up for writing that NA players are not as experienced as JP players? Go ahead, flame all you want, the truth is right under your nose once you log into FFXI. And another suggestion I'll like to make, I did not make this post to become a flame fest . Instead of criticizing my comments, take it elsewhere and let this become a post which is useful to others instead.

[Shiia]

Some tips on help shouts, pt invites. How JP people do it to gather people.

Shouting for AF/Quest help:

Shout situreisimasu = sorry for shouting

AF1~3(insert which) or Coffer key (place) wo sitaito omoimasu = I would like to do AF1~3 or Coffer key hunt (insert place)

Kibousha no kata, Skill age no kata tell kudasai = For those who wish the AF/Key, those who seek skill ups please send me a tell.

*Nao, kibousha ha (insert number) mei made to simasu= I will limit the AF/Coffer seeker to (insert number)

* this you won't have to insert if its a quest like GENKAI2~3.

Genzai (insert number) meidesu. Kibousha (insert seeker number) = We currently have (insert number) members , with (insert seeker number) seekers.

Shout situreisimasita. Tell matemasu = Sorry again for shouting, I will await your tells.

EXTRA: Jikan wa (insert time spent in that place) jikan wo yoteito siteimasu = We plan to stay (insert time spent in that place) hours for the trip.

PT INVITE (the method I use) the bracket part is translated :

(Goodmorning/Goodevening), XX-XX(lvl range) PT desu. Genzai (currently) (Insert your jobs in PT) desuga ishoni reberuage ni ikimasenka? (Would you like to join our party to gain exp?)

EXTRA: Kibou nainoni Tell Siturei simasu (Sorry to send a tell without you not having any PT seek nor search comment) <= Used when inviting someone who doesn't have PT seek flag up nor any sort of search comment

The AF seekers are usually for Coffer key hunt. The way JP shouts they usually seek helpers who wants to skill up their weapons, as well as some others who seek the item itself. Limiting the numbers of seekers will give a higher chance of you obtaining the item. Having more than 4 is an issue in some places where key drop sux. This is the way people gather (Myself included).

The party tells I use, I kindly inform the person who I send tell the structure of your current PT, the lvl range which gives a brief idea. I usually receive some response of Yes and No. In No case usually because they are busy, or they got a PT already. Since there is NO WAY you can determin if the person who are not seeking is JP or NA, better start by using tabs. Direct english might not work well...