BLM as a first

[Nuriko]

Re: BLM as a first

No, if something has Bio then Dia won't stick ... it gets BLM that use Bio yelled at sometimes. If you REALLY want to skill Dark Magic, spam Bio in Besieged.

[Icemage]

Re: BLM as a first

Should also note that SMN/SCH, unlike SMN/BLM, can actually choose to nuke fairly reliably due to the presence of Dark Arts's ability to push any existing Elemental/Dark/Enfeebling skill up to rank B (256 skill at level 75).

Granted, the number of nukes you have access to is extremely low and limited. Like tier 2 at best at level 75... but what you CAN cast will probably land, even if it hits for peanuts.


Icemage

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Re: BLM as a first

It overwrites like this: Dia > Bio > Dia II > Bio II > Dia III > Bio III (priority reads from right to left).

[Tinks]

Re: BLM as a first

Okay. So...
Casting Dia then Bio would get cancel Dia...
But Bio then Dia keeps both effects going, right?

[Nuriko]

Re: BLM as a first

Yes, SMN/BLM would really be that gimp. All you could do that is worth the effort is use your avatars, without native skill none of your BLM spells are worth casting. WHM gives cures which are more effective with the half skill, and status cures where skill doesn't matter.

As for Bio, there are a few reasons for casting it. First, the damage it does when it lands isn't all the damage it does, it keeps doing damage. Second, it reduces the mob's ability to do damage by a bit. Third, that BLM probably wanted some Dark Magic skillups ... often, letting the WHM or RDM cast Dia is the better choice, as that lets your PT do more damage.

[Feenicks]

Re: BLM as a first

The biggest benefits to SMN/SCH are Sublimation, Regen II, Aspir, Dispel and Sleep. Unfortunately it lacks Stoneskin and Blink but if you can keep up Earthen Ward then it's not an issue. I go SMN/SCH whenever I can.

[Armando]

Re: BLM as a first

However, I still want to say that SMN/SCH should be pure awesomeness for whatever your purposes. You get nukes that don't suck OR all the White Magey stuff people could want (but not both at the same time). Everybody wins.

I wouldn't be so sure. RDMs suck at nuking and they get MAB and Tier III nukes. A 75 SMN/SCH isn't going to get far using Water II and with no MAB to boot. Just throwing away MP that could've gone towards perpetuation or BPs.

[Tinks]

Re: BLM as a first

I guess I'll look into what exactly a SCH is, then.
Because I really would like my main to eventually be SMN...
And, I've had fun playing BLM...So, naturally, I thought combining the two might be a good idea.
But, it appears otherwise. lawl

Thanks for all the help, everyone!
It's greatly appreciated.
: D

[Yellow Mage]

Re: BLM as a first

Well, with Silent Howler's comment about Scholar, everybody else has said everything I could possibly say about any topic brought up here.

However, I still want to say that SMN/SCH should be pure awesomeness for whatever your purposes. You get nukes that don't suck OR all the White Magey stuff people could want (but not both at the same time). Everybody wins.

[Silent Howler]

Re: BLM as a first

At the risk of being called ignorant(read:a n00b)...
I think I'd rather play more of supportist than a heal/main-heal...
Especially if my main is BLM...
Like Yellow said...I didn't get into BLM because I thought I'd be healing...
Because, I would have picked WHM...
But, I have no problem giving support as a /RDM...
Of course, I might change my mind...

IMO, you may want to consider Scholar. One of the key aspects of the job is being able to flip back and forth between being black magic or white magic based. You won't be quite on par with a Black Mage in terms of damage dealing, but it sure is a hell of a lot easier to play healer if the party needs it.

Would SMN/BLM really be that gimp?...
Having it be sort of tough to play is fine with me...
I just don't want to be cast out of or not-even-invited to PTs because my Elemental Magic isn't nearly as high as it could be with BLM as a main.
(Also:Do I have the right understanding of this concept?)

At the early levels, SMN/BLM might be okay. Being a level 4 SMN/BLM, you won't notice a real great difference in comparison to being a level 4 Black Mage. But the higher you get the worse it gets. When casting elemental magic it is possible to get a resist. The lower your skill, the stronger the resist. Casting Stone II for 14 damage is just not worth it. As a Summoner it would be much more cost efficient to use your avatars to deal damage than casting poor elemental magic.

On another note...
I've been using Bio a little bit on EP...
And, it's been doing very little damage..especially with the MP cost...
Yet I was with another BLM in a PT the other day...Who continually casted Bio...
This just strikes me as odd...

The purpose of Bio is not to deal damage like Stone or Water does. It's an enfeebling spell.

Bio deals darkness damage that weakens an enemy's attack and gradually reduces its HP.

Dia deals light damage that weakens an enemy's defense and gradually reduces its HP.

Most parties will want Dia > Bio. The reason for this is because Bio only helps the person being hit (who should be the tank) while Dia reduces the enemy's defense, helping every damage dealing job with killing the enemy faster. In some cases the party will ask for Bio instead; more often when you are fighting against a hard hitting enemy and/or when you have a blood tank like Warrior or Samurai.

[Icemage]

Re: BLM as a first

I'm going to fill in a few holes not answered here, so bear with me.

BLM as a first primary job, in a nutshell:

Level 1-10 is pretty painful and slow. You're restricted to how much MP you have, and at the early stages, recovering takes quite some time.

Level 11-22 is actually not too bad if you know where to go. Hint: Stay away from Valkurm Dunes and Qufim if you can, and instead find other ranged attackers to tackle the Maze of Shakrami and Korroloka Tunnel. Not that Valkurm and Qufim are necessarily bad, but the parties in those zones tend to be two steps forward, one step back, unless you get something silly like a powerleveller helping the party.

Level 22-30 you're more or less stuck group-wise where everyone else is, which is basically the area around Kazham. Luckily, Mandragora aren't particularly strong attackers, and they're weak to almost every black magic spell you can potentially toss at them (five different elemental weaknesses).

In the 30s you'll quite likely spend most of your time out in the deserts of Altepa. Blizzard and Thunder magics will serve you well here, as well the dark magic spells Drain and Aspir. These are the Good Times to be a Black Mage, assuming you survive the angry beetles that will be winging their way toward you after you nail them with a spell.

Things get a little worse after Altepa, as the camps get a little less BLM-friendly (Crawler's Nest, Gustav Tunnel, Garlaige Citadel).

The biggest problem occurs somewhere between level 50 and level 55. Invites basically dry up to nothing, as party dynamics shift dramatically, and players start hitting the Treasures of Aht Urghan zones.

It is possible that you will almost never see a normal XP party more than once per level from level 55 to 75. This causes frustration for some players, while others find the implied need to solo somewhat soothing. Personally, I'm in the former group, which is why my BLM job has been frozen at level 56 for 2 years and stayed there.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: BLM as a first

Dia II can overwrite Bio I, so it's possible to cast Bio for skillups if your RDM or WHM is casting Dia II. If you only have access to Dia I, then no, don't skill up, just use Drain. Drain is a good, MP-efficient nuke anyways, and practically hateless if your HP is full.

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: BLM as a first

Bio overwrites Dia. Dia does not overwrite Bio. If you cast Bio, then Dia (before Bio wears off), you are effectively wasting the MP for Dia.

Ah boo I thought it might be that. :<

[Ellipses]

Re: BLM as a first

Bio overwrites Dia. Dia does not overwrite Bio. If you cast Bio, then Dia (before Bio wears off), you are effectively wasting the MP for Dia.

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: BLM as a first

Bio is DoT, like Poison and Dia. That initial damage that you see isn't the only damage it does. It also lowers the mob's attack. And it's one of two spells (Drain being the other) that you can use as a low-level BLM to raise your Dark magic skill, so a lot of BLMs will cast it regardless of whether they should be (In most parties, they shouldn't be, because Dia is better).

I may be wrong in saying this, I know one overwrites the other.. I think so anyway but I don't know if it works both ways.

Could a BLM cast Bio first at the chance of a skill up then Dia, hopefully to overwrite it and for the good of the party on each mob?

I remember trying to skill dark magic on BLM, it was a pain in the ass. I normally asked pts if they minded me using Bio over Dia sometimes.