That old environment...

[Balfree]

Re: That old environment...

I just saw this bottle of "bird repellant" (SP), with the brand of the product on top: "Mondo Verde", translated to english means "Green World".

The hypocrisy on this product made me feel disgusted... so now the birds are responsible... and here's the solution, in a 10$ bottle of bird-poison...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: That old environment...

I just do what I can, and at least I know then if the world is going to shit, that my personal impact was less.

Agreed.

[Murphie]

Re: That old environment...

I just do what I can, and at least I know then if the world is going to shit, that my personal impact was less.

[cidbahamut]

Re: That old environment...

But do we wait until its so bad that any schmuck can see that we are going down the shitter or do we start now? The problem I have is that trying to convince THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON THE ENTIRE PLANET is going to be impossible. I don't think it means that we throw our hands up in the air and say fuck it but I do think we need to be realistic.

So...futile gesticulating and a T-shirt campaign?

Lmnop may be onto something with the super-villain thing. They always seem crazy on the surface, but if you sit down and think about what a lot of them are going on about it's not too far fetched. They're right and recognize the necessity of the evil they execute. Case in point: go read Watchmen.

I may be a terrible person for saying that we're screwed and all efforts to turn the tide are a wasted effort and we might as well not bother, but that doesn't make me any less correct.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: That old environment...

But do we wait until its so bad that any schmuck can see that we are going down the shitter or do we start now? The problem I have is that trying to convince THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON THE ENTIRE PLANET is going to be impossible. I don't think it means that we throw our hands up in the air and say fuck it but I do think we need to be realistic.

[Ziero]

Re: That old environment...

You read that article, too, huh? What about Moscow? They've already got their noxious gases.

Oh I read it. The problem is, mainstream media sucks when it comes to relaying scientific facts to the public. They love to blow doomsday theories out of proportion just to drum up ratings and readers. Anyone remember the LHC incidents?

Old image is old

You can't trust any "scientific" discovery you read about in modern news papers. Global warming, even at it's worst, will take far longer to screw up the planet then any of us will be around to see. Hell, maybe our grandchildren might start to see the effects of it become apparent, but even that's debatable.

[Lmnop]

Re: That old environment...

Am I the only idealistic pessimist, here? I want to save the world and choose "loves conquers all" and all that, but I am absolutely 100% a supervillain at heart. The villain always gives his speech about why he's doing the things he's doing and what convinced him to be this way. And then the hero refutes it by saying something like "you wouldn't know! 'cuz you're a dork!" or something equally unconvincing. Humans suck and putting new ones on the planet doesn't seem like something I should be doing.

/joins team Cid

[cidbahamut]

Re: That old environment...

You're not worried that global warming et al might have a negative impact on you anytime soon?

See the thing is: if global warming is at the point where it's going to fuck me over in my lifetime, then it's already too late to stop it. Besides which, the rest of the world's population isn't going to do fuck all to help prevent it so we're screwed anyway.

Best option is still to not bring new people into a world that's just going to give them a swift kick in the pants.

[DakAttack]

Re: That old environment...

I'd be more worried about the chances of the gulf of mexico exploding, sending a noxious gas cloud over half the world then I would be about global warming.

You read that article, too, huh? What about Moscow? They've already got their noxious gases.

[Ziero]

Re: That old environment...

You're not worried that global warming et al might have a negative impact on you anytime soon?

I'd be more worried about the chances of the gulf of mexico exploding, sending a noxious gas cloud over half the world then I would be about global warming.

[DakAttack]

Re: That old environment...

Sounds about right.

I just don't see the point in adding another person to an already horribly overpopulated and poorly managed world. It's one less person who'll stress resources and grow up to make more bad decisions before dying alone and unloved in a cruel abusive world.

If the world is going to hell in a hand-basket, would you really wish that turmoil on a loved one?
I thought not.

You're not worried that global warming et al might have a negative impact on you anytime soon?

[cidbahamut]

Re: That old environment...

When this is what most people say nowadays, then you know the end has already begun, in essence. People start deciding that having kids is way too much of a burden and that is what doom sounds like to me.

Sounds about right.

I just don't see the point in adding another person to an already horribly overpopulated and poorly managed world. It's one less person who'll stress resources and grow up to make more bad decisions before dying alone and unloved in a cruel abusive world.

If the world is going to hell in a hand-basket, would you really wish that turmoil on a loved one?
I thought not.

[Ziero]

Re: That old environment...

But I like meat =(

Just because the environment probably will regulate itself once we're gone, it doesn't mean we should take the stuff we're doing to it lightly. Just because over a couple of thousand years it'll eventually heal, it doesn't mean we're not screwing over a lot of species that'll have to deal with our mess after we're gone.

Because this mindset fucks everyone over.

No matter how much you do care, the majority of the planet just doesn't. And they probably never will. Which is where the root of the problem is. If people can't even get the Japanese, a first world nation, to stop killing whales by the boatload, what the hell can be done to stop the rest of the world from screwing everyone else over? While I agree it would be nice if everyone cleaned up after themselves, stopped making a mess of everything and saved more then they wasted, it's not something I'm going to go actively worrying myself over. Hell, we can't even live peaceably with ourselves, what hope does the planet have with us in charge?

I mean, I do what little things I can to lessen my own personal footprint on the world, I drive a "fuel efficient" car (only reason I don't have a hybrid is cause they can be stupidly expensive), I unplug things in my house when they're not in use (I hate vampire power), I recycle bottles and cans and paper and all that junk and hell, the majority of my diet is made up of breads and pastas since they're cheap and easy to cook, so I really don't eat all that much meat to begin with.

But am I gonna go sit there and worry about how the world is gonna end or how we're going to ruin everything? Nope, can't do it. Because it's going to happen regardless of how hard we fight or not. It's not a question of "if", but more a question of "how" and "when". I'm not going to kill myself worrying over stuff like that because I can't go and change the world. If you can, then more power to you, if you can get oil companies to stop dicking over electric cars, get cattle ranchers to stop overfeeding cows that ruin the land, get factories all over the world to stop dumping chemicals into the water and air well I'm a-ok with that.

But to actively worry about it all? Nah, I can't really be bothered. I'm too much of a careless dick I guess.

[Armando]

Re: That old environment...

I mean, this ball of dirt didn't have stuff running around on it for millions of years only to have us be what wipes it all out.

Just because the environment probably will regulate itself once we're gone, it doesn't mean we should take the stuff we're doing to it lightly. Just because over a couple of thousand years it'll eventually heal, it doesn't mean we're not screwing over a lot of species that'll have to deal with our mess after we're gone.

Why worry about things you really can't change(and you really can't change it, the world at large just don't care) when instead you can be enjoying whatever short time we have on this piss-ant dustball we call a planet.

Because this mindset fucks everyone over, and this same mindset applies equally to short-term problems.

Speaking of environmental problems, it turns out that one of the biggest things you can do for the environment is eating less meat. Turns out the livestock industry is one of the biggest contributions to environmental rape in all sorts of ways, from beating all forms of transportation combined in air pollution, to deforestation, to massive energy/land/grain/water consumptions required to produce one pound of meat. In short, meat is very inefficient to produce. This pagehas charts from the book "The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World" which illustrates the massive inefficiency involved (as well as other information):

Charts

Gallons of water required to produce a pound of:


Calories of fossil fuel required to produce 1 calorie of protein of:


# of people whose caloric needs can be met with 2.5 acres of land devoted to:

Moderating your meat consumption is probably the biggest thing you can do for the environment; consider the amount of water that goes into a pound of meat. If you regularly used 14 gallons of water every time you showered (you probably don't), you'd have to give up showering for a year to save that much.

This is not a hoax. Wikipedia has an article on this: Environmental vegetarianism. The United Nations did a study on this in 2006, which the Wikipedia page uses as a reference: http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM

Environmental vegetarianism is based on the concern that the production of meat and animal products for mass consumption, especially through factory farming, is environmentally unsustainable. According to a 2006 United Nations initiative, the livestock industry is one of the largest contributors to environmental degradation worldwide, and modern practices of raising animals for food contributes on a "massive scale" to air and water pollution, land degradation, climate change, and loss of biodiversity. The initiative concluded that "the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global."[154]
...
In addition, animal agriculture is a large source of greenhouse gases and is responsible for 18 percent of the world's greenhouse gas emissions as measured in CO2 equivalents. By comparison, all of the world's transportation (including all cars, trucks, buses, trains, ships, and planes) emits 13.5 percent of the CO2. Animal farming produces 65 percent of human-related nitrous oxide and 37 percent of all human-induced methane. Methane has about 21 times more Global Warming Potential (GWP) than carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide has 296 times the GWP of CO2.[157]

Obviously humanity as a whole doesn't need to drop meat altogether, but we need to drop our consumption to a more reasonable level. I can't remember where but I recall reading that the average American consumes more meat than any other nationality. According to Wikipedia the UN has been trying to convince a couple of nations to encourage their citizens to go meat-free on a specific day of the week. Awareness of this issue is important because as third world countries develop, their meat consumption will increase, potentially screwing things even further if nothing is done.

EDIT: According to the preface of that UN study: "Action is required: if, as predicted, the production of meat will double from now to 2050, we need to halve impacts per unit of output to achieve a mere status quo in overall impact."

[Ziero]

Re: That old environment...

That doesn't bother you?

Death is inevitable, whether it be just me personally, or an entire species, when it comes it comes. I mean, when you put it in context, life in and of itself is pretty pointless. When you have creatures on this planet who's life-cycle is literally less then 24 hours, you realize how little it all means. But despite being pretty insignificant specs of dust in the universal sense, at the very least we can enjoy the time we have now. Why worry about things you really can't change(and you really can't change it, the world at large just don't care) when instead you can be enjoying whatever short time we have on this piss-ant dustball we call a planet.

You're not worried about what kind of world you'll be raising your kids in?

Well I doubt my kids will be there for the end of life on earth, and I doubt their kids will be their either. But eventually there will come a time when someone's kids are the last to stick around on this planet. Though humans as a species are a fairly adaptable creature, whatever happens I'm sure some form of man will still be around, just not in the same numbers.

Though we also do muck up things pretty fast, unfortunately it would take a complete global effort for us to "fix" the problems we'll cause. But most of the world don't give a rats ass. As said before, too many stupid people are breeding, but not just in the US, but all over the world. Even if everyone in the US and hell even Canada and Western Europe all banded together to stop screwin over the planet, there's still the vast majority of the world who'd flip you off and keep on cuttin down trees and crappin in your water supply.

If you wanna help "save the planet", go right ahead. It feels good to help, or at least try to help, so don't let anyone stop you. As long as you can enjoy what you got, it was worth it in life.