Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

    Lord I hope that's not the NA gender neutral version of it


    You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

    I don't have a big ego, it just has a large mouth.

    Comment


    • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

      Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
      People said this about the Democrats back when Clinton was elected.
      People said this about the Republicans when Bush got elected.

      Voters are much more fickle than we give them credit for.
      I don't really debate this, but I do think that voters feel far more damaged by the reign of Bush 43 than they do Bush 41 or Clinton. People might not LIKE how the country went under Bush 41 and Clinton, but there weren't many people out there thinking they were evil incarnate either.

      Comment


      • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

        People don't blame Clinton or Bush Sr. because they blame current presidents instead of past policies made by other president, house and congress members. These laws and policies take several years to be felt.

        The Surplus possibly came from Clinton and a largely republican congress in the late first term, same could be argued for the recession that followed. We can blame Bush for how the surplus was spent along with congress and the house for how this energy crisis has been handled, but the economy isn't so cut-and-dry.

        We always blame the current president for this stuff just because they're the easiest target and, as such, blame the party he's affiliated with. I'm not defending Bush here, mind you, I never liked him. I'm just pointing out the economy has a lot more to do with past decisions than current presidents.

        If things don't improve under Obama, even in the first couple of years - he will be blamed for the decisions that were not made by him or the currently elected officials. If things go well, he will be credited for the work and decisions of other people.

        And that's really how it works. It all comes down to image an timing. Hell, this even applies to your everyday job. If the boss is looking and you're doing a good job, he thinks you're great. If he's looking and you're daydreaming or drop something, you're a major fuck-up.

        Comment


        • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

          I'm not just talking about the economy. I'm also talking about things like the War in Iraq, corruption (Haliburton, Blackwater and friends), and judgment (see the way Bush handled 9/11, Katrina). People have hated Bush far longer than the economy has been in decline.

          The handling of 9/11 and Katrina especially, though. It made Bush not only seem like he was completely incompetent, but that he was uncaring. You don't have to actually be a good leader to have the common sense to know that when your country has suffered a huge loss that you don't hide yourself away, or go on like nothing happened.

          Comment


          • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

            But Bush did fuck up and is responsible.

            Case in point, the man's a complete moron and gave a bunch of government jobs to his buddies most of whom weren't even qualified for those positions. How else can you explain turning a $5.6 trillion surplus into a nearly $11 deficit?

            I mean you are right in that there's a whole plethora of reasons but ultimately it does come back to Bush's irresponsibility and refuse to listen to his own father. Yeah, in case anyone's forgotten it was Bush Senior who made paying down the debt a national priority way back. But Jr. is too pig headed and doesn't listen to anyone. Rather he tells people what to do and only asks how we can make his way work.


            Also, do you remember all the missing millions of dollars? Or all the emergency supplies that never made it to the Katrina victims? Then there's all the trade with China while they devalue their currency and fail to respect intellectual property rights and fair trade agreements.


            My point is even though not everything was his direct responsibility, he should have exercised his authority better.


            As for the recession, it's likely to last for quite a while. I think Suzie Orman might be a tad too pessimistic with 7 years, but I'd say it could easily take Obama's entire first term to fix it which is a damn shame.
            sigpic


            "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

            Comment


            • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

              While not "everything" can be laid at G. W. Bush's doorstep, quite a lot of it can be.

              Gauntanamo? Check.
              Patriot Act? Check.
              Homeland Security? Check.
              War in Iraq? Check.
              Huge budget deficit on top of huge military spending? Check.
              Illegal wiretapping? Check.
              Economic deregulation? Check.

              The economic meltdown itself isn't entirely his fault - but certainly he (and by proxy the Republican Party, which he more or less had direct control of for at least his first term) didn't do much of anything to prevent the circumstances that caused it either, so even there he's at least partially to blame.


              Icemage

              Comment


              • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                Originally posted by Icemage View Post
                While not "everything" can be laid at G. W. Bush's doorstep, quite a lot of it can be.

                Gauntanamo? Check.
                Patriot Act? Check.
                Homeland Security? Check.
                War in Iraq? Check.
                Huge budget deficit on top of huge military spending? Check.
                Illegal wiretapping? Check.
                Economic deregulation? Check.
                I have one that I will NEVER forgive him for...

                Since the war began (3/19/03) officially there are 4191 totally uneccessary deaths of our soldiers who were someone's sons, daughters, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers,....
                Originally posted by Feba
                But I mean I do not mind a good looking man so long as I do not have to view his penis.
                Originally posted by Taskmage
                God I hate my periods. You think passing a clot through a vagina is bad? Try it with a penis.
                Originally posted by DakAttack
                ...I'm shitting dicks out of my eyeballs in excitement for the next bestgreating game of all time ever.

                Comment


                • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                  Don't forget the countless civilian deaths. Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  Comment


                  • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                    Originally posted by Icemage View Post
                    While not "everything" can be laid at G. W. Bush's doorstep, quite a lot of it can be.

                    Gauntanamo? Check.
                    Patriot Act? Check.
                    Homeland Security? Check.
                    War in Iraq? Check.
                    Huge budget deficit on top of huge military spending? Check.
                    Illegal wiretapping? Check.
                    Economic deregulation? Check.

                    The economic meltdown itself isn't entirely his fault - but certainly he (and by proxy the Republican Party, which he more or less had direct control of for at least his first term) didn't do much of anything to prevent the circumstances that caused it either, so even there he's at least partially to blame.


                    Icemage
                    Don't forget the general attitude of the administration either and all the times Bush and Cheney declared themselves above or outside the normal scope of executive policy or the law as a whole.


                    Wii code: 6851 9579 6989 9039

                    Comment


                    • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                      Originally posted by Feba View Post
                      Don't forget the countless civilian deaths. Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                      Yeah that's what I've been saying for years.

                      At least military personnel is there to fight. Of course their deaths are tragic too, but when you consider there could be from 100 up to 200+ civilian casualties (depending on the source) per every US soldier KIA...

                      And also lets not forget even though the US wants to spin the war as and act of "spreading democracy" the truth is it was a fabricated war in order to both take revenge on Sadam and seize control of the country's oil resources. With the added effect of potentially setting a permanent base of operations to increase the US presence in the region.

                      It just didn't go as planned (thankfully).
                      sigpic
                      "In this world, the one who has the most fun is the winner!" C.B.
                      Prishe's Knight 2004-Forever.

                      その目だれの目。

                      Comment


                      • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                        Originally posted by TheGrandMom View Post
                        Since the war began (3/19/03) officially there are 4191 totally uneccessary deaths of our soldiers who were someone's sons, daughters, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers,....
                        Too true. And for what? To play right into the terrorists hands, that's what.

                        The War on Terror



                        The Economy
                        sigpic


                        "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

                        Comment


                        • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                          Illegal wiretapping? Check.
                          If you want to lay this one on Bush, you must lay it on Obama as well. He voted in favor of homeland security measures that were, in fact, invasions of privacy on the American people.

                          Also, regardless of what you may think about the goings on in the Middle East, its not going to be simple as packing up and moving out now. I mean, we go in there and change stuff - we can't just pull out and leave people high-and-dry there now, it would just create more problems. Also, all that stuff with Russia right now. Yeah, that's not good and its not going to go away no matter who you want to blame.

                          I truely hope Obama's ready for this job, but his chief-of-staff pick already has me concerned. Its kind of a bad thing with liberals and conservatives get concerned about the same guy, usually means you fucked up somewhere when they're agreeing.
                          Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 11-07-2008, 02:54 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                            BBQ, the point isn't "oh, well, it's not that simple". The point is that these are the things that Bush and the GOP administration have done and they are the ones who will be placed with most of the blame. Regardless of if Obama supported it or not, people link PATRIOT Act with Bush and Republican congress.

                            The point is that whether it is right or wrong, these are the things that have repulsed the country largely away from the GOP and even more so away from the far right. These are things which the GOP almost surely cannot recover from easily or quickly, and makes it very unlikely for them to go back to the same sort of politics which this administration has practiced.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                              Feba, you're hilarious.

                              You talk a good game, but you clearly haven't been around to see how drastically the vote goes back and forth. Nothing that's happening right is any different than when Clinton originally took office in terms of how people vote.

                              If America is as liberal as you say, it doesn't quite explain the consistancy of popular vote. Of course, when the popular vote was 51% Bush, our nation was "divided" and now with Obama at 52% the nation is "united."

                              Excuse me while I stifle a laugh.

                              Sounds like a large conservative base still exists, they just weren't happy with the people they thought shared thier values. At any rate, it doesn't mean the whole world turned liberal in the last four years and there's no going back.

                              Republicans lost this time because they generally made the mistake of making thier campaigns about the other guy and not thier issues. Big reason McCain lost, HUGE reason Dole lost her seat to Hagan.

                              Its also why Kerry lost to Bush. Oh, I could keep going with that, if you'd like. Works on Bush/Perot vs. Clinton, it was always about things Clinton did, hardly ever about his stand on things. Bush Vs. Dukakis? Same thing.

                              The big campaign mistake is talking about the other guy more than your stand on things. When you fail to make your stand clear, you're going to lose - always. People don't like the negativity about the other guy.

                              And when they get tired of Democrats being negative and making the elections about thier rivals, they won't be elected. That's where politicians lose touch. Its not about the other guy - its about the issues we face.

                              Though, I have to give Biden credit, he did make it work in his favor. But then, had he taken the fight to Palin and not McCain, it would have blown up in his face. So the event you go up against a woman, do make the debate about the other guy, lest you look like a heartless bully for picking on a girl.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

                                BBQ, you're retarded.

                                1- The things that are happening right now are irrelevant. What I'm talking about is WHAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE.

                                2- I didn't say America was liberal. I said that it had been repulsed by the far right.

                                3- Obama is actually at %53. Anyway, I never said that this nation has united the country-- we are still very much divided, and the work to unite the country can only really begin now. Politically speaking, I don't think we'll be united by anyone. However,
                                3a- McCain got %46. Kerry got %48. In numbers, Obama got ~7m more than McCain, Bush got ~3m more than Kerry. That's more than DOUBLE the margin Bush got.
                                3b1- Obama had huge improvements across the electoral map, including traditional Republican states such as NC, VA, IN, NE-2; MO looks to still be up in the air. He won by 364 EV.
                                3b2- To elaborate on why this is important, this means that Obama DID NOT WIN by grabbing a single swing state, as Kerry or Gore could've. Obama could lose ANY single state's electoral votes and still win by a large margin at this point. Bush could've lost with a single PROBABLE state flip, Obama couldn't lose with a nearly impossible flip of the state with the most electoral votes; California.
                                3b3- This election reflects a general national feeling, instead of mainly reflecting the outcome in a single state (Florida or Ohio)
                                3c- Obama performed better than Kerry in EVERY SINGLE DEMOGRAPHIC, with the possible exception of LGBT voters.
                                3d- Just because someone doesn't vote for someone doesn't mean they don't support them. There is no way in this country to show support for someone and not vote for them.

                                4- I never said there wasn't still a conservative base. I'm saying that it's horribly split. For example, moderates and people who are truly conservative are not happy with the spend-happy path the GOP has gone down. The religious part of the party wouldn't be happy with politicians who are friendlier to things such as gay marriage and abortion. If the latter part of the party takes over (as Sarah Palin shows it might), they lose independents.
                                4b- Demographic shifts in this country are harmful to the GOP. The more black voters you have, the more democrat votes you have. The same goes for nearly every demographic in the country; see 3c. I heard someone say it beautifully on election night. 'Rovians should have to watch college graduations as punishment, because every time another class graduates, they lose.' It's remarkably true. They have to find a way to appeal to new voters, especially given that the older voters they're relying on now die.

                                5- That's kinda true, but it's not the whole story.
                                5a- As I explained elsewhere, there were MANY MANY factors that lead to this being a great situation for Obama. Trying to single it down to any one thing is stupid.
                                5b- The bigger problem was McCain's campaign being absolute shit in general. When you're 72 years old and seem to be going senile, you want a campaign that stays on message, not jumps all over the place. It's especially damning when you just attack your opponent, surely, but as we saw with him 'suspending his campaign' to deal with the bailout bill, even trying to apply it to the issues will end up looking awful.
                                5c- Making the campaign 'about the other guy' can work; at least in more local elections. There's a democrat in my area who only won because his opponent did something very stupid. IIRC, this is basically the entire case against Saxby Chambliss.

                                EDIT: Nebraska's second district has been called for Obama.
                                Last edited by Feba; 11-07-2008, 03:55 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X