New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

[Ziero]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

At best, attempted suicide. Freedom of speech wouldn't really come into play.

Seeing as you didn't really get that comment, it's a statement about how you have to have your shoes check for bombs because someone was caught trying to sneak a bomb, in his shoe, onto an airplane. Because some people want to kill us, we have to be slightly inconvienced. But the other option is to ignore it so that when it does happen, hundreds of people die.

Again, damned if you do damned if you don't, so they decide to err on the side of security for minor inconvience.

[Ziero]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

It's another case of damned if you do damned if you don't. To ensure security there has to be some freedoms that get leaned on. We're free to own guns here, as long as we aquire them in the proper manner. We're free to say *anything* we want here as long as it's not directly causing harm or inciting panic or riots. Listening in on phone calls to try and catch people who may have been hiding in this country for years plotting attacks or commiting crimes is not that big of a deal. You won't be suddenly arrested for saying to a friend in canada that you blew something up.

To get you have to give, to be safe *someone* has to be watching. Because not everyone follows the rules, and because of that *we* have to give up something.

To say that it might be a 'miracle' that this country will have any personal rights left in 20 years, when we've only been gaining more and more over the past two centuries is an ignorant thing to think. In a world where people get shot dead in the street for commenting about their leaders, for someone to claim that possible easdropping is a major infringment on someone's personal rights is just wrong.

[Mhurron]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

At best I would be taken out of the movie theater. But if you can't spot a fire in a dark room then that's one thing you have in common with Stevie Wonder.

Actually, you would be arrested and charged for public endangerment, and for any injury or death that resulted because of it. There's a reason I said that.

In the 1919 U.S. Supreme Court case of Schenck v. United States, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

[PhiberOpticks]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

Its better to scream bomb in an airport.

Disturbing the peace. Probably interferes with the right to happiness.

Or better yet, just randomly take a match to your shoes.

At best, attempted suicide. Freedom of speech wouldn't really come into play.

That's not the most that would likely happen to you.

And movie theatres have more than just one room. It's possible for a fire to start somewhere other than the darkened room filled with hundreds of people, and go completely unnoticed by those individuals until an alarm sounds, or someone tells them what's going on.

Once again, disturbing the peace.

[Mythos]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

At best I would be taken out of the movie theater. But if you can't spot a fire in a dark room then that's one thing you have in common with Stevie Wonder.

That's not the most that would likely happen to you.

And movie theatres have more than just one room. It's possible for a fire to start somewhere other than the darkened room filled with hundreds of people, and go completely unnoticed by those individuals until an alarm sounds, or someone tells them what's going on.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

Its better to scream bomb in an airport.
Or better yet, just randomly take a match to your shoes.

[PhiberOpticks]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

Go scream fire in a movie theater and see how well you can 'uphold' your First Amendment rights. EVERY right has a limit, it has always been that way.

At best I would be taken out of the movie theater. But if you can't spot a fire in a dark room then that's one thing you have in common with Stevie Wonder.

[Mhurron]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

In a country that prides itself on inalienable rights? Okay, I believe you.

Go scream fire in a movie theater and see how well you can 'uphold' your First Amendment rights. EVERY right has a limit, it has always been that way.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

Granted we need to be aware of such losses, but personally I feel this is jumping the gun, there was FAR more to worry about that could have resulted from such a thing as the Patriot Act.

orz

[Mhurron]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

Great DieselBoy, now the NSA is reading this thread and knows we know they know.

[PhiberOpticks]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

They are by no means limitless in power with their efforts, and unable to be obstructed by any force.

I know. But they may as well be aiming for that, since they're allowed to spy on whoever they want in the country and can arrest people without habeas corpus.

Privacy can not be respected at every turn.

In a country that prides itself on inalienable rights? Okay, I believe you.

If it was we would rarely apprehend child pornographers and the like.

That's what probable cause is for.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

Ah, the old "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" excuse.
These two types of mentalities are why it's going to be a miracle if there are any personal rights left (In America, at least) in two decades.

Privacy can not be respected at every turn. If it was we would rarely apprehend child pornographers and the like. There are a few give and takes that are necessary to the maintenance of society, while this might or might not be one of those, I feel its hardly a transgression to be concerned with, as mentioned, its only transmissions involving foreign suspects. If they cross that line then its time to worry, but as for now its not that big of deal. Sure maybe your cousin from Northern Pakistan calls you to talk about the latest version of Busty Beauties or how many men you recently "ravished", which then gets recorded, shoved into an archive where no one touches it, and then either forgotten or destroyed. Of course on the other hand if he calls and talks about acquiring explosive elements, or throws the word "bomb" around several times, or discusses money laundering, etc.. (see illegal and concerning) then there might be ramifications from such actions.

[Feba]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

They are by no means limitless in power with their efforts, and unable to be obstructed by any force.

You are a terrorist. Now that I believe that, I can do pretty much any sort of investigation I want, hold and torture you without trial or legal counsel, thanks to the riot act. It doesn't matter if there are factions, they don't become involved.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

It's subtleties like these that eventually result in a loss of rights. And the point is, in this administration, you don't even know if they're investigating people related to their public agenda.

Last I checked this administration was just a fragment of the political spectrum on a whole. They are by no means limitless in power with their efforts, and unable to be obstructed by any force. There are many, many factions at different levels of the government that don't follow blindly and bow down. And yes, sure it can result in loss of rights, but you know, I'm not too worried about that, typically when that gets too severe a little bit of anarchy loves to spread itself. Granted we need to be aware of such losses, but personally I feel this is jumping the gun, there was FAR more to worry about that could have resulted from such a thing as the Patriot Act. Honestly, also, I'm not too worried about the administration monitoring people not on their agenda, chances are they would be doing it by accident, there have been far too many fumbles on there part over the past few years for me to view them as much of a capable administration.

[Feba]

Re: New law changes U.S. eavesdropping rules

ven if you are, nothings going to happen unless you're talking about something you inherently shouldn't be talking about.

Ah, the old "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" excuse.

very good for counter terrorism, but a small loss in personal rights.

These two types of mentalities are why it's going to be a miracle if there are any personal rights left (In America, at least) in two decades.