{New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

[Effedup]

I'm currently working on piecing together a new system for myself. My current main PC gets the job done as far as FFXI goes, but newer games are pretty much out due to it's age. I was a manager at CompUSA before they liquidated, so I managed to get a few things towards my new computer with my limited funds, but when the discounts got reasonably good, the ebayers and craigslister's swarmed in, and any parts that were worth buying quickly vanished.

At any rate, I'd managed to get my proc (Core2Quad Q6600), mobo (Asus P5K Deluxe), couple SATA dvd burners, and Vista Home Premium (which I don't really WANT but I figured with newer hardware it was in my best interests to upgrade the OS as well). I still need RAM, Hdd, and Videocard...

The thing is, I was an idiot and didn't look closely enough at my Mobo, and much to my chagrin it's a Crossfire board. I have no experience with crossfire at all (given the choice I woulda gone SLI), and honestly have no experience with the current Radeon cards...I've been looking online at Newegg and such but all the cards advertise their multimedia capabilities, but don't really go too much into the gaming aspect like the Nvidia cards do. Does anyone have any advice on a good Radeon card that's somewhat future-proof? I am interested in going crossfire at some point, so it needs to support that, but I'm probably gonna stick with a single one for a while and save up for a second.

Also, anyone have any experience with Gskill brand memory? They seem to have decent prices and specs but most reviews only go into "it worked" and aren't specific with gaming and multitasking. I'm a huge multitasker, always have like 4-6 programs running at the same time, so I'm going at least 4 gigs of memory, and maybe 8 at some point if I can find decently rated 2 Gb sticks.

Anyways, thanks for any advice you guys can spare.

[Edgetheninja]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

I'm currently working on piecing together a new system for myself. My current main PC gets the job done as far as FFXI goes, but newer games are pretty much out due to it's age. I was a manager at CompUSA before they liquidated, so I managed to get a few things towards my new computer with my limited funds, but when the discounts got reasonably good, the ebayers and craigslister's swarmed in, and any parts that were worth buying quickly vanished.

At any rate, I'd managed to get my proc (Core2Quad Q6600), mobo (Asus P5K Deluxe), couple SATA dvd burners, and Vista Home Premium (which I don't really WANT but I figured with newer hardware it was in my best interests to upgrade the OS as well). I still need RAM, Hdd, and Videocard...

The thing is, I was an idiot and didn't look closely enough at my Mobo, and much to my chagrin it's a Crossfire board. I have no experience with crossfire at all (given the choice I woulda gone SLI), and honestly have no experience with the current Radeon cards...I've been looking online at Newegg and such but all the cards advertise their multimedia capabilities, but don't really go too much into the gaming aspect like the Nvidia cards do. Does anyone have any advice on a good Radeon card that's somewhat future-proof? I am interested in going crossfire at some point, so it needs to support that, but I'm probably gonna stick with a single one for a while and save up for a second.

Also, anyone have any experience with Gskill brand memory? They seem to have decent prices and specs but most reviews only go into "it worked" and aren't specific with gaming and multitasking. I'm a huge multitasker, always have like 4-6 programs running at the same time, so I'm going at least 4 gigs of memory, and maybe 8 at some point if I can find decently rated 2 Gb sticks.

Anyways, thanks for any advice you guys can spare.

For anything over 3.4 gb of ram you need to install x64, which then your limited to linux, vista x64, or xp x64. You can download a legit copy of the x64 disc and use your legit key and it is fine because vista keys work either on 32 or 64 bit editions.

Memory - I just build a new comp that was extremely cheap, like 300$ sans hdd case and dvd rom because we had all that, with athlon x2 5000+ black edition, 1gb ram, onboard ati 3200 chipset, and an asus board. Now the ram I put in, I have to say is really nice ram for 30$ and its not slow at all. (My personal comp is running q6600 (3.2ghz a core) ocz reaperx hpc 4-4-3-12(or 15 I dont remember) 2.2v 2x2gb ram(vista ulti x64)) Crucial Ballistix Tracer Dual Channel 1024MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 512MB) BL2KIT6464AL804 at TigerDirect.com but heres my ram Newegg.com - OCZ ReaperX HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory (I run oc @ 400fsb and a quad multi of 8 to make it the 1:1 ratio of ram speed and fsb proc speed for best performance)

Now don't get me wrong I was a freaking ati fan for the longest time. But if your mobo supports 2.0pci-e (which even if it isnt 2.0 you can still use a 2.0 card just not as fast as it usually is) I would go with a 8800gtx like FRYS.com | XFX (when it is back in stock) or an OC'ed 9800gtx or a gx2 whatever your spending really limits what you get. If i had gotten the video card I wanted it would of been a 8800gtx because I can tri-sli them but instead I had to go with a 8800gts 512, now I can still run any game out right now in full everything and still get massive fps because I run in 1280x768 (on a widescreen hdtv) but if you go higher then that your gonna need a 768 gts or a gtx or a 9800 really for newer games like crysis but that game is horrible even on new cards.

Anyways any other questions just ask away I am not a pro at knowing everything computer wise but I have been building them for over 7 years. So I do know a bit.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure the only difference between Crossfire and SLI is the name. Pretty sure you can still use GeForce cards and SLI them.

If I am wrong though, then the higher end ATI cards are Radeon 3800-4500s. I am running two HD 3870s myself, with 2 GB of RAM and a quad-core processor (AMD 9850) and I can run Crysis on max settings with little to no lag.

Also, just avoid Vista. You do not need it for any reason, and it's only going to decrease performance in games because of the resources it eats.

[Mhurron]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Crossfire and SLI do the same thing, but very differently. SLI is only between GeForce Cards of the same model, Crossfire is only between ATI cards. Obviously this requires the cards to support SLI or Crossfire.

There are also bios options for both, or in the case of my motherboard a physical device to switch from normal to SLI. This is why motherboards are one or the other.

There are hacked drivers for some chipsets, but really, it's not worth the hassle.

[Effedup]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Thanks for the replies...I honestly considered just saying screw Crossfire and getting an 8800 of some flavor, but since I've got the mobo already and returning it isn't an option I figured I'd check into what Radeon has to offer. I used to be ATI all the way myself (Still running my old X800T in my media center, and it outperforms my PCIe Nvidia card in my main PC at times) but everything about gaming anymore is "OMG NVIDIA ftw!!!" so I'm torn. Thanks for the lead on the 3870's, Tickmeoff, I'll check them out...I'd like to be able to run dual GPUs in the future, so I'm still leaning towards ATI unless a single Nvidia card would be better...

And you know, stupid me I totally forgot about the 32-bit OS ram limitation. Do the Q6600's support 64-bit across 4 cores? If not I guess I'll just have to stick with 4 GB of ram...save me some money for now, I guess. Thanks for the suggestion as far as downloading the 64-bit version, do I just get that from Microsoft on their site somewhere?

I really really didn't want to get Vista myself but since XP has that BS ram limitation itself (is there a work around to that at all, just curious?) I figured I'd have no choice...and not only that, but I see many more games coming out Vista only in the coming months so I figured better to be somewhat prepared. I have Vista on my laptop and I can't stand it, but admittedly it could just be because I'm pretty unfamiliar with it. Whoever came up with that "Allow/Deny" garbage should be shot...and why did they HAVE to rearrange everything? It worked just fine before...

Oh yeah, new question...what's size power supply do you guys reccomend? My current single core build has a 500watt Antec, but I'm thinking that may not be enough, especially with Dual GPUs...I'm not going to have lights and all that crap, just typical desktop set up.

Anyways, thanks everyone for the help so far... ^^

[Edgetheninja]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Thanks for the replies...I honestly considered just saying screw Crossfire and getting an 8800 of some flavor, but since I've got the mobo already and returning it isn't an option I figured I'd check into what Radeon has to offer. I used to be ATI all the way myself (Still running my old X800T in my media center, and it outperforms my PCIe Nvidia card in my main PC at times) but everything about gaming anymore is "OMG NVIDIA ftw!!!" so I'm torn. Thanks for the lead on the 3870's, Tickmeoff, I'll check them out...I'd like to be able to run dual GPUs in the future, so I'm still leaning towards ATI unless a single Nvidia card would be better...

And you know, stupid me I totally forgot about the 32-bit OS ram limitation. Do the Q6600's support 64-bit across 4 cores? If not I guess I'll just have to stick with 4 GB of ram...save me some money for now, I guess. Thanks for the suggestion as far as downloading the 64-bit version, do I just get that from Microsoft on their site somewhere?

I really really didn't want to get Vista myself but since XP has that BS ram limitation itself (is there a work around to that at all, just curious?) I figured I'd have no choice...and not only that, but I see many more games coming out Vista only in the coming months so I figured better to be somewhat prepared. I have Vista on my laptop and I can't stand it, but admittedly it could just be because I'm pretty unfamiliar with it. Whoever came up with that "Allow/Deny" garbage should be shot...and why did they HAVE to rearrange everything? It worked just fine before...

Oh yeah, new question...what's size power supply do you guys reccomend? My current single core build has a 500watt Antec, but I'm thinking that may not be enough, especially with Dual GPUs...I'm not going to have lights and all that crap, just typical desktop set up.

Anyways, thanks everyone for the help so far... ^^

500 is fine with a single gpu, I run my oc'ed q6600, 8800gts (oc'ed), 2.2v 4gb ram, all on a bfg 550w or 500 i dont remember which. Dual gpu no less then 700- I personally would go 800-900

And its not cores that make a cpu x64 compadible, its just the architecture, and yes, I run the same proc which I mentioned in the first reply, on x64 vista

Video Cards Coupons and Deals -- Great spot to watch card prices.

Also you would have to email ms about the vista thing or download a iso of vista of torrents or rs

[TheGrandMom]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

<insert huge geekness>

OMG......you are such a geek!

[Feba]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Effedup, there's a 64 version of XP. I don't really know anything about it, but you might want to look into that.

Although right now I really don't see why you'd want more than 4GB. I don't think any major games require more than 1 or 2GB in RAM, and given that 4GB barrier, I don't think that's too likely to change soon.

[Edgetheninja]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Effedup, there's a 64 version of XP. I don't really know anything about it, but you might want to look into that.

Although right now I really don't see why you'd want more than 4GB. I don't think any major games require more than 1 or 2GB in RAM, and given that 4GB barrier, I don't think that's too likely to change soon.

It isn't a 4GB barrier,

The problem is that the CPU also access I/O devices (printer, USB, keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.) by assigning them an address as well. So it reserves half a GB or so of the memory addresses to talk to the I/O devices... So you have 4GB - ~0.5GB -> 3.5 GB (on Windows it is 3.2GB).

It is more like (Coding Horror: Dude, Where's My 4 Gigabytes of RAM?) 3.2gb so if your going 32bit you might as well go with a matched pair of 2x1gb sticks, otherwise your just wasting money IMO. Honestly I don't know how it effects your performance by using ram thats not registering.

When I built up my current PC I chose "Windows XP x64 Pro" for this very reason (plus I didn't see the point in restricting my shiny new 64-bit CPU).

Sadly support for XP x64 has been mediocre at best. Some major hardware players (e.g. Netgear) have outright refused to produce drivers for it. Others have produced cut-down software that functions, but misses important features when compared to the 32-bit version.

Even Microsoft, who marketed x64 as meeting the "increasingly sophisticated demands for making home movies, working with digital photographs, using digital media" have not issued x64-compatible versions of their "Color Control Applet" or the "RAW Thumbnail Viewer" - both of which would be very useful add-ons for people working in exactly those fields.

Given this experience I am watching Vista 64-bit with quiet interest. A quick trawl around various hardware websites shows that most drivers offered are labelled as Vista 32-bit only. Is history set to repeat itself?
GrahamStw on March 9, 2007 02:27 AM

My favorite thing is this, I have been using vista since beta 2. The same thing I did with xp. And people were all over xp and the new start menu and all the new stuff. It is the same with vista. Sure vista isn't perfect but your going to get better support on it then xp in the future. I myself have had problems with certain programs (HBO on Demand) from our cable company. But that is more of a x64 thing. Otherwise, all my ffxi works. CS:S, Crysis, Bioshock, any other games really. And I play them all in windowed mode with aero on taking the performance hit but I still get well over 100fps. The drivers for the videocards have caught up just fine.

[Effedup]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Also you would have to email ms about the vista thing or download a iso of vista of torrents or rs

I figured as much...when I bought my copy of Vista, we had ever flavor under the sun (it was CompUSA, after all), but I went with Home Premium cause it was the best deal (think I paid 70 bucks for it all told). I'll email them and see what they have to say...I'm quite familiar with torrents and such, but for an OS I kinda want an authentic copy. Hopefully it's just something simple like buying another disc for $10 or something...I seem to remember hearing something about that when Vista launched as far as 64 bit editions but could be mistaken.

Effedup, there's a 64 version of XP. I don't really know anything about it, but you might want to look into that.

Although right now I really don't see why you'd want more than 4GB. I don't think any major games require more than 1 or 2GB in RAM, and given that 4GB barrier, I don't think that's too likely to change soon.

I'd like to use the copy of Vista I already paid for if at all possible, but if MS gives me a hard time about it, I probably will go that route; I'll take XP over Vista any day. The only thing that worries me is the "Games For Windows" thing...although I can only remember two specific titles that were Vista only (Halo 2 and Shadowrun), I don't want to end up screwed over when more and more games come out without XP support. I think it's bullshit that they do that in the first place, but that's another argument for another day.

The RAM thing isn't really an issue yet...but with only 4 Ram slots on my mobo, it's a decision I need to make at the outset, cause I'm obviously going to need to buy 2GB sticks if I wanna go above 4 at some point. It isn't even about the gaming aspect, really, I just multitask tons (that's not to say that I don't want to be able to buy games off the shelf and have them work well; I prefer playing games on the PC, but my 360 gets most of my attention now for that very reason). When playing FFXI, I've got 2 vent clients running (one running speech and another running music), my media player, Firefox, Fraps, occasionally Xfire, etc. My PC chugs now doing all that, but my PC is getting pretty dated technologically speaking.

...all my ffxi works. CS:S, Crysis, Bioshock, any other games really. And I play them all in windowed mode with aero on taking the performance hit but I still get well over 100fps. The drivers for the videocards have caught up just fine.

That's my biggest concern with going 64 bit, lack of drivers. I suppose I'd better check to make sure there's 64-bit drivers for my mobo and sound card (Audigy 2 Platinum, really really don't want to lose that card ; , and my Linksys wireless card, too.



You guys all gave me some things to think about. I appreciate the help, and if anything more comes to mind please let me know.

[Feba]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

It isn't a 4GB barrier,

Yes, it is. 32 bit OS cannot support more than 4GB of RAM (well, they can, with some screwing around, but that's not important). Windows doesn't allow you to USE that full 4GB for whatever you please, but it is a 4GB barrier.

About Vista, I wouldn't worry about games for it. Because Vista has been so widely hated, and has such a low adoption rate, DirectX10 hasn't really gone anywhere. See List of games with DirectX 10 support - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for an example of what I'm talking about. DX11 might change it, but I really doubt that.

[Ameroth]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Not to mention, Microsoft is rolling out the next Windows OS sometime next year (so they say), making Vista that much more obsolete... Provided the next Windows doesn't fail even harder than Vista.

[Edgetheninja]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

Yes, it is. 32 bit OS cannot support more than 4GB of RAM (well, they can, with some screwing around, but that's not important). Windows doesn't allow you to USE that full 4GB for whatever you please, but it is a 4GB barrier.

About Vista, I wouldn't worry about games for it. Because Vista has been so widely hated, and has such a low adoption rate, DirectX10 hasn't really gone anywhere. See List of games with DirectX 10 support - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for an example of what I'm talking about. DX11 might change it, but I really doubt that.

LoL, its not 4 gb, its 3.2 it wont register anything over 3.2. Not 4gb. Sorry I don't mean to be an ass about it but theres a big difference between 3.2 and 4 gb in my book. If I pay for 4 gb I want 4 gb not 3.2. Thats like buying a car getting to it and it has 4 tires but 1 of them is flat. Your like wtf. And the dealer says well you didn't buy the premium package so the air had to be let out of 1 of your tires to compensate for the people who paid more. Makes me lol.

I figured as much...when I bought my copy of Vista, we had ever flavor under the sun (it was CompUSA, after all), but I went with Home Premium cause it was the best deal (think I paid 70 bucks for it all told). I'll email them and see what they have to say...I'm quite familiar with torrents and such, but for an OS I kinda want an authentic copy. Hopefully it's just something simple like buying another disc for $10 or something...I seem to remember hearing something about that when Vista launched as far as 64 bit editions but could be mistaken.





I'd like to use the copy of Vista I already paid for if at all possible, but if MS gives me a hard time about it, I probably will go that route; I'll take XP over Vista any day. The only thing that worries me is the "Games For Windows" thing...although I can only remember two specific titles that were Vista only (Halo 2 and Shadowrun), I don't want to end up screwed over when more and more games come out without XP support. I think it's bullshit that they do that in the first place, but that's another argument for another day.

The RAM thing isn't really an issue yet...but with only 4 Ram slots on my mobo, it's a decision I need to make at the outset, cause I'm obviously going to need to buy 2GB sticks if I wanna go above 4 at some point. It isn't even about the gaming aspect, really, I just multitask tons (that's not to say that I don't want to be able to buy games off the shelf and have them work well; I prefer playing games on the PC, but my 360 gets most of my attention now for that very reason). When playing FFXI, I've got 2 vent clients running (one running speech and another running music), my media player, Firefox, Fraps, occasionally Xfire, etc. My PC chugs now doing all that, but my PC is getting pretty dated technologically speaking.





That's my biggest concern with going 64 bit, lack of drivers. I suppose I'd better check to make sure there's 64-bit drivers for my mobo and sound card (Audigy 2 Platinum, really really don't want to lose that card ; , and my Linksys wireless card, too.



You guys all gave me some things to think about. I appreciate the help, and if anything more comes to mind please let me know.

I use an audigy 1 card (even older then the 2 plat) and the drivers are great on it imo. I get eax and everything. It even has the lame enviromental changing options. So if you wanna live in a tin can, woot, you can.

If you go with vista x64 and 4 gb of ram here is what I have run with ffxi running lol, ffxi, fraps, winamp, CS:S, vent, tversity(streaming a 1080p video to the ps3 downstairs), utorrent, my rapidshare downloader, digsby, firefox. And thats all in windowed even CS:S and I still get 70+fps with ffxi and CS:S open. I am not saying O YEAH GO VISTA BABY, I am just saying for me vista has been a dream come true. You got to atleast give it a try. You can always reinstall xp like I have before and then come back to vista when you miss it. LOL

[Kafeen]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

LoL, its not 4 gb, its 3.2 it wont register anything over 3.2. Not 4gb. Sorry I don't mean to be an ass about it but theres a big difference between 3.2 and 4 gb in my book. If I pay for 4 gb I want 4 gb not 3.2.

Actually its 4GB minus whatever addresses are being used elsewhere, either for devices or other memory (eg. VRAM). A chunk of that 4GB is always reserved for certain system devices and can't be used. More of it gets allocated by memory on devices such as video cards. If you have 1GB VRAM for example, either on 1 card or 512MB on 2 cards using crossfire or SLI then that memory needs so way to be addressed so your 4 GB drops to 3 GB minus that block reserved for those other system devices.

[Feba]

Re: {New Computer}{Advice}{Can I Have It?}

LoL, its not 4 gb, its 3.2 it wont register anything over 3.2. Not 4gb. Sorry I don't mean to be an ass about it but theres a big difference between 3.2 and 4 gb in my book. If I pay for 4 gb I want 4 gb not 3.2. Thats like buying a car getting to it and it has 4 tires but 1 of them is flat. Your like wtf. And the dealer says well you didn't buy the premium package so the air had to be let out of 1 of your tires to compensate for the people who paid more. Makes me lol.

...you should never, ever make analogies. Period.