Favorite OS?

[Gentoo]

Re: Favorite OS?

A test like this isn't necessary.

When it comes to many things, such as procedures, etc., humans are visual learners. There is no denying it, it's just our nature. It's nature that a visual representation is easier for a human to grasp rather than an abstract idea.

I can't tell if just pull these things out of your ass, or you're intentionally trying to be a troll?

Go search on academic papers about visual and analytical learning. Not everyone is predisposed to learning in a visual manner.

And wtf does visual representation of the file system have to do with test Feba presented? You can't seriously be suggesting that non-windows operating systems are command line only.
(heh, I think I just answered my first quest question)

[HairdewX]

Re: Favorite OS?

...Yes, it is. Comparing something people have experience with to something people don't have experience with is like asking someone to make a traditional family thanksgiving dinner, compared to a buffet from another country. I don't know about you, but my Grandma can make a damn good turkey, but I've never once seen her make fried rice. If she ever tried, I'm sure it would be much more difficult for her than making said turkey. That doesn't mean fried rice is harder to make, it just means that something people have experience with is always easier for them to do. That doesn't mean that it is easier for people with no experience, however, and that is user friendliness.

That's not a good example. The difference for a person between visual learning and abstract learning is like making turkey and making fried rice? It's not really related to what I was talking about.

A good example is a person trying to encode movies. He can use various programs and enter numerous file and encoding options in a command line. It would take time for him to learn the different types of options and what they do.

Or

He could just use a GUI and click on the check boxes next to the options he wants and then clicks on the start button. He wouldn't need to have any knowledge of what is going on under the GUI.

He could encode a movie either way, but the visual representation will confuse him less and possibly let him know about other options he may not even know about.

[Feba]

Re: Favorite OS?

For example, if cars suddenly come with another type of steering method other than a steering wheel it is not going to be user-friendly at all because people simply are not familiar with it.

Like I said, a motorcycle and a car. The motorcycle isn't really any harder to drive, it just has a DIFFERENT METHOD of being driven. It's not a matter of user friendly, it's a matter of user familiarity.

Compare the old washboard and a tub of water method of cleaning clothes. No doubt a modern washing machine isn't FAMILIAR, but that doesn't mean it isn't FAR more user friendly.

True. However, in the majority of cases the easiest to use/memorize are the most familiar, or rather, which is why they become the most familiar.

Perhaps in consumer items, but not in computers. Microsoft has had their monopoly very strong for so long that the majority of people have never even used a computer without Windows on it, let alone owned one. It's not a matter of the OS being good enough to sell itself like a product in a truly competitive market, like it might be between, say, two types of cell phones.

I think most people would agree that Mac OSX is easier to use than Windows, but it's not as popular, mainly because it doesn't have as many games, and because of Apple's hardware premium.

A test like this isn't necessary.

Yes, it is. Comparing something people have experience with to something people don't have experience with is like asking someone to make a traditional family thanksgiving dinner, compared to a buffet from another country. I don't know about you, but my Grandma can make a damn good turkey, but I've never once seen her make fried rice. If she ever tried, I'm sure it would be much more difficult for her than making said turkey. That doesn't mean fried rice is harder to make, it just means that something people have experience with is always easier for them to do. That doesn't mean that it is easier for people with no experience, however, and that is user friendliness.

EDIT:

I could find a good alternative OS that would run most of the available programs(including games)

Well you'd have to be more specific about what games, but linux gaming is better than stereotypes make it out to be. Games really are the problem for most people switching from windows though, and it's a vicious circle. Personally, I don't mind linux gaming nearly as much, since I tend to stick to a few games anyway and try to better myself at them, but someone who likes to buy the latest games off the shelf and play them to stay up to date, or someone who demands to play any game they see will almost always come out disappointed.

[Shadowneko]

Re: Favorite OS?

So you hate windows... but you haven't even tried Mac or Linux...

You'd better be on FreeBSD.

heh...well I've had a verion of Linux at school but I did not use it enough to really get to know it(umm it was ok...) and the only mac I've seen was back in the 1980s to early 1990s(Black and white anyone?).

I see Windows as something I'm stuck with(I hate it...Windows has been defective since day #1) and if I could find a good alternitave OS that would run most of the available programs(including games) I would use that since Windows is basicly a disaster area....(ESPC. Vista)

[HairdewX]

Re: Favorite OS?

Like I've said before. Familiarity != User friendly.

Familiarity is not everything there is to be user friendly, but it is a big part of being user-friendly.

For example, if cars suddenly come with another type of steering method other than a steering wheel it is not going to be user-friendly at all because people simply are not familiar with it.

Ease of use/memorization = User friendly.

True. However, in the majority of cases the easiest to use/memorize are the most familiar, or rather, which is why they become the most familiar.

A more accurate test is to take two people who have never used a computer before (and now you see why this test is nearly impossible) and give them each a book on how to do basic tasks within the OS you're testing. Give them 30 minutes to read the book, then give them the computer, and a list of tasks to do.

Such as:
1- Start the computer and login
2- Open a word document and write something with bold, italic, large, and strike fonts.
3- Save the document.
4- Find a web browser and open the wikipedia page on Operating system

etc... Taking two people off the street to test user friendliness is like stopping taking two people off the street and putting one of them in a car and the other on a motorcycle. Chances are, the motorcycle rider is going to get himself f'd-up, whereas the car driver will have no problems with it. Motorcycles aren't really harder to use, they just have different ways of using them that the average person won't know

A test like this isn't necessary.

When it comes to many things, such as procedures, etc., humans are visual learners. There is no denying it, it's just our nature. It's nature that a visual representation is easier for a human to grasp rather than an abstract idea.

For example, navigating through a file system using the command line only provides a user with text, which leaves the representation of the file system as an abstract idea. Not everyone will be able to process tha idea and understand it right away. Using a graphical representation, such as a folder, gives the user a visual representation and lets them "see" better how navigation works and where things are stored, etc.

[Feba]

Re: Favorite OS?

but seriously I can't say anything about Mac OS or Linux since I have not really played with those, but I will say this: I HATE WINDOWS!

So you hate windows... but you haven't even tried Mac or Linux...

You'd better be on FreeBSD.

[Shadowneko]

Re: Favorite OS?

can I say none of the above? XD

but seriously I can't say anything about Mac OS or Linux since I have not really played with those, but I will say this: I HATE WINDOWS!

[Feba]

Re: Favorite OS?

GUI's are more user-friendly. Take a random person off the street and a GUI will be easier for them to use over a command line 95 times out of 100.

Like I've said before. Familiarity != User friendly.

Ease of use/memorization = User friendly.

A more accurate test is to take two people who have never used a computer before (and now you see why this test is nearly impossible) and give them each a book on how to do basic tasks within the OS you're testing. Give them 30 minutes to read the book, then give them the computer, and a list of tasks to do.

Such as:
1- Start the computer and login
2- Open a word document and write something with bold, italic, large, and strike fonts.
3- Save the document.
4- Find a web browser and open the wikipedia page on Operating system

etc... Taking two people off the street to test user friendliness is like stopping taking two people off the street and putting one of them in a car and the other on a motorcycle. Chances are, the motorcycle rider is going to get himself f'd-up, whereas the car driver will have no problems with it. Motorcycles aren't really harder to use, they just have different ways of using them that the average person won't know

[HairdewX]

Re: Favorite OS?

You're wrong. This depends on the user.

Depends on the what, the 5% of users that like command lines better than GUI's? We can nitpick here but generally speaking GUI's are more user-friendly. Take a random person off the street and a GUI will be easier for them to use over a command line 95 times out of 100.

Wow. You've never tried to actually use a command line, have you?

Oh I have. In fact, I use them everyday. I'm using them right now. I am quite adept at using them. That doesn't make them user-friendly, though.

Oh nevermind, you're just stupid.

And now the name calling.

[Feba]

Re: Favorite OS?

Of course I've heard of packages. If I buy a brand new video card, can I just pop in the CD or download some drivers and install them in Linux?

It depends on the graphics card and the Distro. In something like Ubuntu 7.04, you might not even need to do anything but put it in, open restricted drivers manager, and update it- I actually went through this same scenario changing from an MX440 to a 6200LE.

A GUI is always more user friendly than a command line.

Wow. You've never tried to actually use a command line, have you?

But if you want an example, I can play FFXI in a GUI in Windows that I can't play in Linux.

Sure they are friendly.

Oh nevermind, you're just stupid.

[Mhurron]

Re: Favorite OS?

A GUI is always more user friendly than a command line.

You're wrong. This depends on the user.

[HairdewX]

Re: Favorite OS?

Are you saying this can't be done in Linux? Have you EVER heard of packages?

Of course I've heard of packages. If I buy a brand new video card, can I just pop in the CD or download some drivers and install them in Linux?

I doubt that. I've never had to spend all night downloading one update for linux, just so I could install something that should work by default anyway.

It's true. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it any less true.

Bull. Just because you're USED to the GUI doesn't mean it's more user-friendly. I'd like an example of something you'd do in Windows in a GUI that you can't in Linux, where the GUI is significantly more friendly than a command line.

Ok, now you're smokin something . A GUI is always more user friendly than a command line. (unless of course you take an extreme gui that is designed horribly, but we aren't arguing extremes here)

But if you want an example, I can play FFXI in a GUI in Windows that I can't play in Linux.

The fact of the matter is, computers are unfriendly.

Sure they are friendly.

[Feba]

Re: Favorite OS?

Exactly, all the user should have to do is click install, next, next,... next, finish, and be done.

Are you saying this can't be done in Linux? Have you EVER heard of packages?

That scenario happens less in Windows than it does in Linux.

I doubt that. I've never had to spend all night downloading one update for linux, just so I could install something that should work by default anyway.

The GUI is just a lot better suited to be more user-friendly.

Bull. Just because you're USED to the GUI doesn't mean it's more user-friendly. I'd like an example of something you'd do in Windows in a GUI that you can't in Linux, where the GUI is significantly more friendly than a command line. The fact of the matter is, computers are unfriendly. If you don't look things up and read a guide or two BEFORE you get started, you WILL NOT be able to do anything you want.

[HairdewX]

Re: Favorite OS?

Look up compatibility lists and compare- then you're almost sure to get something that will work. http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ is a good place to look for laptops.

You can also buy computers with linux preinstalled, such as from System76.

Yeah, but the fact that a person would have to know detailed information about their hardware and have to research compatibility already puts the OS at a disadvantage in terms of user friendlyness.

Disagree. If push comes to shove, a hardware manufacturer can shove a round chip into a square driver, and as long as everything works alright in Pretty-Graphics-Land, and the End User doesn't have a clue, it will all be fine.

Exactly, all the user should have to do is click install, next, next,... next, finish, and be done.

Such as in Windows. When I tried to install it (before I got sick of it and chucked it), I had to install graphics drivers to play games. This involved a whole bunch of needless effort and drama, which lead to my getting sick and chucking it. However, if the end user wasn't trying to run games- such as the Grandma-User scenario, it never would've come up.

That scenario happens less in Windows than it does in Linux.

Where's VMS on this list? VSOS? Heck, where's Solaris?

I've used Solaris, and meh, still doesn't do all that I want

Interesting that you picked that those. I feel exactly the same, which is why Linux is on my primary computer (laptop).

Play games too (Wine anyone?)

When I got my laptop, Linux (in the Ubuntu flavor) was the only OS that allowed me to instantly use the internet (via my wireless network card), listen to my mp3s, oggs, and flacs -- straight off the CD.

Hmm... I used Ubuntu as well and no internet luck on my wife's Dell Laptop.

I find that about the only thing that Linux lacks is a really cushy development environment (that is not to say it lacks a robust tool chain) --- even at the kernel level. In this area, I have to give Windows the nod.

Yeah, I agree, there is so much more support on the Windows development platforms.

Just because you type the comand in via Start->Run instead of firing up a shell doesn't mean you don't have to know about the command line in Windows.

You could easily run Windows fine without even knowing command lines exist. The GUI is just a lot better suited to be more user-friendly.

[Gentoo]

Re: Favorite OS?

Where's VMS on this list? VSOS? Heck, where's Solaris?

Driver compatibility is an issue to me. I want an OS on my laptop that can utilize my wireless internet card. I want an OS that can play the games I want. I want to browse the internet, watch media, and listen to my mp3's. Linux cannot satisfy all my wants, so I simply will not use it and I'll use something else that can.

Interesting that you picked that those. I feel exactly the same, which is why Linux is on my primary computer (laptop).

When I got my laptop, Linux (in the Ubuntu flavor) was the only OS that allowed me to instantly use the internet (via my wireless network card), listen to my mp3s, oggs, and flacs -- straight off the CD.

I find that about the only thing that Linux lacks is a really cushy development environment (that is not to say it lacks a robust tool chain) --- even at the kernel level. In this area, I have to give Windows the nod.

Even then, having to know about command line arguments, having 20 different programs that all do the same things which can confuse people, having to compile things to use them, having to mess with the kernel, etc is not even close to user friendly.

Just because you type the comand in via Start->Run instead of firing up a shell doesn't mean you don't have to know about the command line in Windows.

I'd wager for number of times I've had no other choice but to get into a shell on a *nix (or a VMS ) is easily exceeded by the number of times I've had to open up the DOS-box in Windows, or type in a command via the graphical interface to the command line (Start, run), or navigate around in that application that is the definition of user-friendliness called regedit.

To echo Yellow Mage, every OS sucks. They all have warts, and usually comes down to user perception which one seems less unslightly. For every story that someone comes up with about why <insert OS name here> is [just] better than <insert other OS name here>, there's someone with a counter story.