The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Well, not every spell has 100% usefulness, does it? There are mobs immune to Silence, mobs that absorb magic... everything would have use at a particular time, PLague would be no different. Certainly can't be crazier than wishing for Break, right?

OK, point taken.

I mostly just think that if you're gonna add an enfeebling magic, there has to be a curative magic to answer it. Amnesia doesn't have a cure, for example.

[BurningPanther]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

We've seen how well Subtle Blow inhibits a mobs TP (which is to say that it really doesn't)and I have to wonder if mobs really even do have a limit on MP reserves. I'd assume most NMs just don't have that limitation. Some NMs use TP moves at will without building TP, which defeats the purpose of either spell.

Well, not every spell has 100% usefulness, does it? There are mobs immune to Silence, mobs that absorb magic... everything would have use at a particular time, PLague would be no different. Certainly can't be crazier than wishing for Break, right?

[DakAttack]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

I don't see Dragoon as being an after thought since it's based on the Lancer. I think our reliance on the weak little wyvern is what does us in.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

What do you mean by that?

PUP turned out GREAT ....

What I mean is SE threw together some leftover ideas they had from DRG and Fellow NPCs and tried to work it around the demands for a Necromancer class. What players were expecting was a job where the pet could conform to various different roles, but few of them are powerful or consistant enough for your party members to take notice.

See also the problems that plauge DRG, SMN and BST. Same problem. SE has gone back and forth so many times on whether or not BST and PUP were meant to solo that I really can't take thier comments seriously. Only thing that is clear is that players don't want or think to invite these jobs to thier parties, so soloing becomes a necessity to level at all.

PUP still feels like an afterthought, and arguably so do DRG and BST. PUP has some great ideas, but they end up going nowhere at high level. Meanwhile we can say otherwise for COR and BLU, they're still young to high levels and endgame, they're just not cemented yet in strategy, they're getting there and the will. PUP is far behind them in that regard.

I'd love to see PUP do well and get further adjustments, I think its an interesting job overall. But personally, I'd rather SE not make any more pet jobs til they fix the pet jobs they have, plus I'd like to see the remaining classic jobs see the light of day.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

There exist in the game two forms of the Virus effect: Disease and Plague. Disease is the one that simply stalls TP and MP recovery, and is pretty much only useful against PCs, I assume this is the one you were thinking of. Plague, however, drains TP and MP over time. Because the Virus effect is Fire-based, it makes a nice little flip-side(and compliment) to Poison, which is why I wish for it so fervently. It'd also be fun to put a WAR's "Resist Virus" trait to the test in Ballista.

We've seen how well Subtle Blow inhibits a mobs TP (which is to say that it really doesn't)and I have to wonder if mobs really even do have a limit on MP reserves. I'd assume most NMs just don't have that limitation. Some NMs use TP moves at will without building TP, which defeats the purpose of either spell.

[Vonlock]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

I think we saw how PUP turned out.

What do you mean by that?

PUP turned out GREAT .... it's just that folks don't want to spend the gil or take the time to LEARN how to play the job. PUP is amazing once folks stop jumping on the "OMG PUP IS LAME" bandwagon. People are scared of what they don't understand... yet they don't take the time to learn it themselves.. they would rather go on the opinions of those who SUCK at puppetmaster.

PUP can out damage alot of the DD jobs up until mid lvl (40-50) ... but that's only if the player knows the right kind of attachments to buy. Remember they still have more adjustments to make to pup.. so the job isn't finished yet.

Remember a long time ago when Red Mage was the LAME job.... pup just needs that one thing that will make them valuable in end game... right now they are awesome from lvl 1 - 50 ... and yet STILL GOOD from then on... just not out damaging everyone like before.

PUP turned out GREAT.. and it's a job you actually have to THINK with. It's not some "/t <bt>" and hit till it dies type job. You have to stay on your toes.

[BurningPanther]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

Plague is a garbage spell, why RDMs even want it? Sure, its "enfeebling," but the only thing this would ever even be useful for would be BC or NM fights to keep a mob from recovering while allies were recovering.

There exist in the game two forms of the Virus effect: Disease and Plague. Disease is the one that simply stalls TP and MP recovery, and is pretty much only useful against PCs, I assume this is the one you were thinking of. Plague, however, drains TP and MP over time. Because the Virus effect is Fire-based, it makes a nice little flip-side(and compliment) to Poison, which is why I wish for it so fervently. It'd also be fun to put a WAR's "Resist Virus" trait to the test in Ballista.

[Ziero]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

Plague drains TP iirc and Amnesia is far from gamebreaking or useless. Cast it during EXP to save your pt from some spare TP moves or use it on some bosses to prevent them from spamming a super attack for a short time. And doesn't Erase already cure it?

I agree we won't see these jobs act like how they did in other games, but that doesn't mean the base concepts can't be modified to work in this game. You just need to be a bit more creative with some of them. The customizable Blu set up and Blood Pact based Smn stuff is proof of that.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

Please let the new jobs be brand new! No jobs from past ff series, even tho they will get labeled as one I would love to see complete new jobs.

I think we saw how PUP turned out.

The potential problem I'm seeing is that a lot of players seem to have their own idea of what these various classic jobs are supposed to be. So if SE decides to implement them in a different way, a lot of people are going to be disappointed/confused/angry, even though it's totally SE's call how these jobs play out.

I find it hard to believe that they are going to do everything exactly as they did in the older games. BLU and COR (and especially PUP) should be enough to show us that while the spirit may be the same, the mechanics aren't at all what we expected.

While that may be true, BLU is very close to script as far as its origins go, even in terms of power. Gambler hasn't really ever been consistant in its design and Reels/Slot would have never been practical in the online realm due to latency issues, but Gambling is still the core of the buff function.

Plus, SE has stated they still have some plans for these jobs, so they're not entirely laid bare. There will always be more Blue Magic to discover and SE did once say there were more Rolls in the works.

The current line of Phantom Rolls are coyly named after the first tier of AFs, so there could be a second tier named after Relic Armor.

Andfter all, NIN waited quite some time for thier spells to be completed. NIN spells ended in the 40s and picked up again at 75, COR's Rolls end in the 50s. Quite a few levels unaccounted for in both for a while. It could be COR just has 18 buffs, but I don't think we're done yet.

Give RDM Terrorize, Plague, and Amnesia for the new spells SE promised?

I firmly believe SE slapped BST in the face by giving Terrorize to BST only under merits while BLU gets Jettatura the 40s as a spell, it should have just been a natural JA for BST.

Otherwise I think these are abilities/spells that should be reserved only for the jobs that conform to the laws of beasts. Perhaps if they added another job that plays by the Beast Wheels - like Morpher - it would be a reasonable move.

Plague is a garbage spell, why RDMs even want it? Sure, its "enfeebling," but the only thing this would ever even be useful for would be BC or NM fights to keep a mob from recovering while allies were recovering.

Amnesia would be game-breaking in all kinds of ways unless there was a White Magic spell or medicine to fix it, both of which don't exist to my knowledge. Add a spell to fix it (call it "Recollection" to be cute), let Remedy to cure it, otherwise its a bad idea. While we're on that topic, since COR is all about playing off Job Traits and resetting job abilites, ditch Resist Paralyze traits and give them Resist Amnesia instead.

[DakAttack]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

Bells sound like a bad idea. It just doesn't seem right for FFXI.

In FFT Geomancers had access to certain spells based on the terrain they're standing on. They had a wide selection to choose from, but in FFXI we don't. It'd be nice to see the same system in place, but because of the natural restrictions in FFXI's terrain the job's role would change. Dirt, sand, grass, rock, and concrete all point towards a Earth-based tank role. Standing in water might provide healing effects, and standing on the igneus(sp?) rock within volcanoes might provide offensive effects. Perhaps they can differentiate between savanna, plain, and jungle grass, rock, or dirt.

[Legal Fish]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

As far as new spells for Time Mage, I'd like to see stuff like...
- Terrorize (single target, unlike the cone AoE of Jettatura)
- Confuse (reduce TP gain)
- Stop (prevent TP moves, similar to Amnesia)

How about this instead:

Give RDM Terrorize, Plague, and Amnesia for the new spells SE promised?

Time Mage should be a RDM JSE or a set for WHM and RDM to share.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on the new expansion's missions, Geomancer, and Chemist:

Concerning level caps: I don't want to sound like a braggart, but I think an adjustable level cap for Battlefield fights is the best way to go. Just like Assault: 50, 60, 70, and uncapped. Slowly, the lower caps are not available, until finally there is just uncapped for the final one or two missions. If you pick uncapped you get a hard ass fight that you better have merits, great gear, etc for.

Example: Let's say there is this BLM in this a fight... well in uncapped, he has Fast Cast, very potent Stoneskin, Breakga, Quake II, Stone IV, and Stonega III instead of just Stone II and Stonega II if you fought him in 50 cap. Oh, and give him two or three of those new lizard-bird monster pets. Uncapped would be as hard as shit.

Finally, if you pick the "suggested cap", say cap 50 for the fight above, you get like a 1,000 exp bonus. That's enough incentive for people to do capped fights in my opinion, without forcing them. It also keeps the challenge up for those who don't want to.


About Geomancer: It can work without basing it on Terrain. Just make some elemental bells(items, not weapons... maybe ranged ammo if anything) that work like Ninjetsu tools. You cast an Earth spell, you consume an Earth bell. From there, align entire areas by two or three elements(based on their weathers and maybe something else, like Gusgen doesn't get Dark weather, but it wouldn't be a leap if it had that "aura") in these areas. In those areas, correctly aligned spells are free.

Since I'm spitting out so much, I guess I'd talk about Chemist. It wouldn't have to be named Chemist if people feared it would cross too much into "Alchemist" territory. Just name it Medic, based on the war. Allow Medic to equip ranged ammo versions of common items that stack to 99. Like add a ton of alchemy synths that turn Hi-Potions/HQs/Hi-Ethers/HQs/other crap Assault killed into weaker versions that can used with whatever ability Medic/Chemist would us to heal their allies.

You can extend this to things like Incarus Wings, Juices, and Milks which would maybe even grant weak versions of Regain, Refresh, and Regen on a longer timer than the curing abilities. You can even make them enfeeblers by allowing them to do the same with Poison Potions, Silence Potions, Sleep Potions, etc on foes. As for weapons? Give them grenades(which would now stack to 99). Why? Why not, they're grenades.

Of course, like someone said above, you won't get what you want exactly. Basing it on previous Final Fantasys is a sure way to get disappointed.

[Murphie]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

The potential problem I'm seeing is that a lot of players seem to have their own idea of what these various classic jobs are supposed to be. So if SE decides to implement them in a different way, a lot of people are going to be disappointed/confused/angry, even though it's totally SE's call how these jobs play out.

I find it hard to believe that they are going to do everything exactly as they did in the older games. BLU and COR (and especially PUP) should be enough to show us that while the spirit may be the same, the mechanics aren't at all what we expected.

[Ziero]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

The only "healing" spell Time Mage should get would be the Regen line of spells, since they heal over time (and actually in FFV it was TIM exclusive >.>)
I wonder though, how would they go about doing it's AF? Surely they wouldn't use the FFT model, or even FF5... I'm sorry, but as awesome as the job is it looks like sheer ass.
Mystic Knight is in a bit of a bind as well for AF; SE basically ripped off the old sprite for it from FF5, ditched the cape and colored it blue for BLU's AF. I'm not kidding either, if you take a good hard look at it you can see the similarities.
One of these days I'll get around to posting my builds for Chemist, Geomancer and Mystic Knight. I just have to find the time to do it between bouts of leveling my 72 SAM and beating Silent Hill 3 >- >b

I did a build for Geo and Chemist myself and am currently tweaking Time Mage now.

As far as I'm concerned Time Mage would make a great magical DD/support job. Giving it a unique line of spells focusing on time and space would give it a unique twist but keeping it in line with the other Mage jobs. Time Mage doesn't need some unique and bizare gimmick to make it effective, just a unique and useful spell list. And of the current spells already in the game, only one would actually need to be changed based on my ideas. Though I would suggest posting another topic about possible job builds, as they'll more then likely start popping up alot soon and having them all focused in one spot would be much nicer then having them all over.

[Sevv]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

Please let the new jobs be brand new! No jobs from past ff series, even tho they will get labeled as one I would love to see complete new jobs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The OFFICIAL &quot;Wings of the Goddess&quot; @ E3 2007 Thread!

Chemist/Alchemist would be a very interesting addition, they were knife and gun users, so right off the bat you have a job that could be a total backline role with potions and whatnot and /WHM or have them do some DD with /RNG.

Or actually, you could mix in a bit of Edgar's Machinist/Engineer sensibilities and give them rather unique ranged weapons.

And you if you had a Mix ability that eventually grew as deep as what Rikku could do in FFX, giving the job traits to expand on that ability as they levelled, it could evolve from a support class to something bigger.

The big trick, of course, is to get this to work within and independantly of the existing craft system. But really, as far as potions and elixirs go, Assault has pretty much dropped thier market value, so perhaps they damage there is already done and Alchemist wouldn't really harm it at all.