The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Fewer personal attacks, please. ^_^; (Though, that may be slightly hypocritical coming from me...)

It would be sufficient to quote S-E and just emphasis that the company has clearly stated they do not have the manpower for a complete graphics overhaul.

[Hyrist]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Do you want my old Hooked On Phonics kit?

Which nobody has suggested in tihs thread, as far as I can see.

I do agree that the PS2 needs to be chucked, but I don't think we're quite ready for it. The Ps2 should kill itself off- it's not very reliable in my experience, the hard drive is nearly out of space, and people will be upgrading their consoles.

I just can't stand SE's BS stance of not wanting to upgrade FFXI's graphics. Not when FFXI is racking in that kind of money. Not having enough staff? I can sorta buy that. Not being worth the money though? Total BS.

Screw the PS2 and keeping it the same on all consoles... - _ - I want my next gen graphics. I can only imagine how stunning Tu'Lia, Al'teiu, Wajoam or the Promyvions would look in next gen graphics.


Not only would it enhance the over all game, but it would also nab potential players who shun the game for it's dated looks (though at the same time I ask myself; do we want those people anyway?)

You do realize that SE has separate teams for FFXI, right? This is a matter of expanding that team, not 'splitting resources'.

Now yes, FFXI is screwed up because it's a crappy PS2 port, and it might even be harder to upgrade, but I doubt very much that it would be harder for a large company like SE to upgrade a graphics engine ONCE and maintain it than it would for a smaller company like CCP to upgrade the graphics engine AND port it to other systems.

Really, if a fairly new company can maintain four different versions, why can't SE?

Play: With the game on 360, and a lot of the PC platforms that play the game having such incredibly technology behind them, are there any plans to increase avatar customization? Or, because of the userbase of the PS2, are you capping your customization.

SE: Because we want everyone playing the same version, we have the wall of the PS2 version. While there is the ability to create better stuff with the PC, it would leave the PS2 players stuck. But more than the memory issue, probably the biggest problem with adding new hairstyles or races or face types, we would have to go back and [re-model] those pieces for this type of hair, and do that for the thousands of models of armor. That's probably the biggest thing, there's just not the time and manpower to do that.

Source

I hate it when assholes think they have brains.
(*Adds Feba to ignore list to prevent further/future arguments*)

[Legal Fish]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Fred Perry sucks, he should stick to WoW art, because the character models actually do look that horrible. Also, he is a goddamned furry.

[Feba]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

That's exactly what I said to myself when I saw the BS about dropping the PS2 from service.

Which nobody has suggested in tihs thread, as far as I can see. Do you want my old Hooked On Phonics kit? I've got to have it around here somewhere.

[Hyrist]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

but I'm not wasting my time

That's exactly what I said to myself when I saw the BS about dropping the PS2 from service.

It's not happening people, get over it. They will make a new MMO specifically designed for next gen consoles before they even consider for a minute to not cover the console they designed the game around.

Think for a moment, the renovations of the game would NOT be worthwhile compare to time spent making a new MMO that'll use the newer engine. Why? Because you have a fan-loyality to this game. Even if they support another MMO, there will still be a strong player base working on this one. In addition, a new MMO with a brand new ad campaign and updated system and graphics would not only provide a clean slate in programming to work with (with FFXI as a look back to past mistakes and victories) they also get another cash cow that could draw not only new, but different kinds of people, all the while still managing to gather money, feedback, etc. from FFXI.

To talk of ditching the PS2 for graphic upgrades is stupid and wasn't worth regarding. If you talk Graphic upgrades you HAVE to deal with the PS2 roof, because a resounding amount of subscriptions, not only here, but in both EU and Japan (huge numbers in Japan, mind you).

No, this hypothetical bs about ditching the PS2 wasn't even worth this post. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Period, end of discussion.

Now, back to what my original point was. Continuing a graphics upgrade WILL have to deal with the PS2 roof issues, unfortunately this also limits their expansion capabilities. Unless they find a new way of compating the data on the PS2, or create separate Graphics service from PS2 and PC/XBox360 users; something they stated they would not do (Not to mention it doubles their workload.) FFXI's expansions will be rather limited. (But there's still room for more, don't panic. It's not as if the PS2 HDD is being used for anything else.)

This crap about eliminating PS2 service is as redundant as saying "I want them to raise the level cap." It's not happening. SE will take that policy to the game's grave, you can bet your home loan on it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Some good PVP wouldn't hurt either. Ballista is a complete _______ joke.

Qouted. For. Truth.

S-E'd attract SO many more players that way. The one reason my brother keeps citing as his reason for not playing FFXI (he really doesn't know what he's missing, by thew way), is lack of a real Player-versus-Player. He's . . . a crazy one, who's bloodthirsty for chaotic PK's against anybody and everybody not worth his while. In all honesty, I think that FFXI is too good for him . . .

But, whatever: an organised single Player-versus-Player . . . would actually favor the soloist classes far more than the party-oriented game that this is.

The more I think about it, the more a realise the lack of a "real" PvP isn't really all that bad . . .

[Feba]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

I was going to reply, until I read this:

If they upgrade the graphics too far they run across the risk of blowing what little memory the PS2 has.

I don't know if you're not reading other people's posts, or not comprehending them, but I'm not wasting my time

[Hyrist]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

We know what it was take, and like I've said before, it's really not too much to ask.

Have you done .dat editing? Making one set of armor for one race is a good amount of work, doing that for thousands of armors, and also keeping in mind each headpiece would have to be redone several times over to compensate for each hairstyle. Let alone any 'new' one you would want added.

And all of this is just with the graphics system the are currently using. Now you want them to upgrade it? Do you have any idea the complications concerning changing a system standards from one style to another? That's like taking a bitmap in paint, exporting it to photoshop, and editing it from a single layer to a multiple-layer work. It's the equivalent from restarting every graphic in the game from scratch. From Basic > CoP, and then some.

For that amount of effort and money you're better off making a new MMO, from company standards.

And still, upgrading the graphics wouldn't be much of a risk. It's a cost, yes, but if it's done well (hype it some, and advertise) it could easily draw in far more money than it would lose, not to mention keeping your playerbase happy is good.

Most of the current player base is happy with what they have. A graphics upgrade unfortunately does have a risk involved that you're not really paying much attention to: The PS2 roof. If they upgrade the graphics too far they run across the risk of blowing what little memory the PS2 has. It's amazing how far they've managed to push it so far with the new content, let's not push our luck too far.

Now, what I would be interested in, is seeing of SE would allow more of it's techno-savvy fans of doing the work for them, at least in a 're-design' sense for some of the older armors. It would be great for some graphic artists to get a shoe-in the door. And SE in and of itself saves money and time for something the graphic-heads really really want. The idea was floating around here back in 04 but no one's ever gotten the balls to bring the question direct to SE in an interview. (Mainly because the reverse engineering is a violation of the ToS)

The issue with Advertisement has always been a fatal Flaw for SE's player base, but I think that might have been intentional. This is their first MMO after all, and I'm guessing they don't want the astronomically huge numbers that WoW has. Perhaps they just simply can't handle it with the severs we currently have. (Consider the lag issue in Besieged.)

But as far as SE retouching the graphics themselves go, that's a definite no. It's been asked and a solid answer was returned. It's pointless to complain about it further to make them do it. Honestly though, I do see an opportunity for a little community - developer interaction (via previously stated proposal)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Really off topic now, but I'm not familiar with EVE Online: What are the reasonings and strategy behind CCP's decision to revise the its rendering engine? I'm particularly interested in (reasonable!) analysis on the financial impact expected.

BTW, I didn't find any info on art asset upgrade for EVE Online; is this primarily an engine upgrade? If so, that's far short what people want form S-E, as any "major graphic update" for FFXI would pretty much involve model/texture as well, if there's to be higher polygon count.

[Feba]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Also, didn't UO recently announce/perform a major graphics update? And that game has been around for how long now?

Yes they did, and it's a decade old. That shouldn't be a point though, as it is that old, we should use a game with a similar age and playerbase to FFXI, which again would be EVE.

And still, upgrading the graphics wouldn't be much of a risk. It's a cost, yes, but if it's done well (hype it some, and advertise) it could easily draw in far more money than it would lose, not to mention keeping your playerbase happy is good.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

One more thing to note about comparing SE to CCP. From what I understand, CCP is privately owned, while SE is a publicly traded company. When you have to report earnings to share holders and media analysis of your company's performance has a big impact on share prices, you have to take a far different approach to risk taking.

[Malacite]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Okay, admittedly I worded my arguments rather poorly and take full blame for that.


/em slaps his own face.

It's just that deep down I really want to see this game tweaked for next gen graphics and I have a pretty good imagination of what it'd be like. Sadly I lack the resources to make the necessary .dat mods for my own software. Oh well...


I've seen some people touch up screen shots of the game with Photoshop ... and some of them are absolutely stunning.

Really, if a fairly new company can maintain four different versions, why can't SE?

Personally I blame Enix. If it was just Square like in the old days, chances are they'd do it. Look at all the damn hype over FF 7. SE still says they won't be remaking FF7 for PS3. They really must be on crack, to leave such a potential cash cow (not to mention a major system seller for PS3) in the "maybe" pile.


Also, didn't UO recently announce/perform a major graphics update? And that game has been around for how long now?

SE has the time and money to do this, but last I heard Enix controls something like 86% of the company (Spirits Within nearly destroyed Square financially last I checked) so the FF projects take a slight back seat to the Enix ones like Dragon Quest.


Would it be a crap load of work? You bet your ass it would. But it would *so* be worth it IMO. Maybe not at first, but with a little more ease in soloing (or some kind of encouragement for people to go back to the lower levels) and a major graphics update I'm willing to bet it'd put a nice dent in WoW.

Some good PVP wouldn't hurt either. Ballista is a complete _______ joke.

[Feba]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Everyone who says something to the effect of "The graphics engine should move with the times!"

Wow, so you just assume you know everything about everyone, huh?

I don't think there's a single person in this thread that doesn't realize that an upgraded graphics engine wouldn't run on old computers, you'd have to be a total farking dumbass to think that.

How many other projects does CCP have, compared to the number of projects that SE has to split their time and resources between?

You do realize that SE has separate teams for FFXI, right? This is a matter of expanding that team, not 'splitting resources'.

Now yes, FFXI is screwed up because it's a crappy PS2 port, and it might even be harder to upgrade, but I doubt very much that it would be harder for a large company like SE to upgrade a graphics engine ONCE and maintain it than it would for a smaller company like CCP to upgrade the graphics engine AND port it to other systems.

Really, if a fairly new company can maintain four different versions, why can't SE?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Can you show me one person that didn't realize that...?

Everyone who says something to the effect of "The graphics engine should move with the times!"

Again, EVE online, a game from a developer with less experience, less cash (presumably), a very similar userbase is upgrading to DX10, keeping their DX8/9 client, AND porting to Mac AND Linux. If CCP can do that, do you honestly think SE can't at least overhaul the graphics engine ONCE?

That depends. How many other projects does CCP have, compared to the number of projects that SE has to split their time and resources between? What platform was EVE online originally developed for? Architecture decisions made early on have a huge impact on the difficulty of such projects. If it was originally designed for PC, it may lend itself better to upgrading to DX10 than a game that was originally designed for PS2 and then ported to PC.

[Feba]

Re: The OFFICIAL "Wings of the Goddess" @ E3 2007 Thread!

Proponents of upgrading the graphics because PC technology continually advances tend to forget this little nugget, that not all PC users are necessarily playing this game on a cutting edge, top-of-line PC.

Can you show me one person that didn't realize that...?

Nobody is saying "Chuck the old users!" just "Give us something better!". They aren't the same thing. Again, EVE online, a game from a developer with less experience, less cash (presumably), a very similar userbase is upgrading to DX10, keeping their DX8/9 client, AND porting to Mac AND Linux. If CCP can do that, do you honestly think SE can't at least overhaul the graphics engine ONCE?