oh my god

[Mhurron]

Re: oh my god

Taru > all

You could have saved yourself some typing and just said that.

[Jei]

Re: oh my god

To shield break mandies in the face you'll need to be a taru obviously.

Taru > all

[Armando]

Re: oh my god

Aside from dual blink tanking, /NIN is useful starting at 24 if and only if this condition is met: You're using your shadows, and in turn saving the healers MP. If you're not using your shadows frequently then the sub job is pointless. If you ARE putting those shadows to good use, then /NIN's overall usefulness will depend on how much MP you're saving the healers and how strapped for MP the party is overall. Parties where healing power is low benefit greatly from it.

I'm pro-/MNK, don't get me wrong. But /NIN is useful as soon as Utsusemi: Ichi becomes available. There's a time and place to use it - as long as the player understands that (rather than using it on everything and for everything) then it's no problem. But even so, notice that the advantage to /NIN is not the Dual Wield but rather the damage mitigation. Like the others said, it's around 50 that /NIN becomes good for DD'ing.

But, yeah. Solo tank = /MNK. Just don't overhunt. Oh, and Shield Break everything in the face. Seriously.

And yeah, that whole bit about sub jobs being situational is so true.

[Raydeus]

Re: oh my god

Heheh, this really turned into a subjob thread.


About /NIN before 50.

I don't think it's about "You should sub NIN since 24" VS "You shouldn't sub NIN till 50", but more like:

Even though /NIN's usefulness is best after 50 (I'd say 56), that doesn't mean there arent situations where /NIN before 50 is what works best.

There simply isn't a rule about subs because it all depends on the situation.

Depending on what you are doing, the party setup, the party player's skill, and everything else NIN, MNK, SAM, THF, etc. subs will be the best for the specific situation. Only lazy/unskilled players pick only one sub and stick to it no matter what, without even considering what's actually going on in the party.

[TehTyr]

Re: oh my god

And I'm altering perceptions of your post how again?

I think on the overall topic of /nin vs /mnk vs /sam vs /thf we're going to have to agree to disagree. I see all of them being useful depending on the role you need to play, LS party or not, over a wider range of levels than you seem to.

Clever Ninja pretty much said what I was about to.

[Sodo_Leviathan]

Re: oh my god

Well Since you need help with war ima give you some and not join the fight with what sub is better......... Try to get a pt with a mnk/war or War in it so when you drop to low hp they can voke off you trust me it works also try to keep the best gear for Def not Att but try to keep Att up so you dont lose hate also make a great provoke Macro..... that should be best for you while your learning ...... btw stick to mnk sub If you can't lvl War atm nin is not going to be any easier plus ots cost alot of gil! >.>

[Clever Ninja]

Re: oh my god

And I'm altering perceptions of your post how again?

I think on the overall topic of /nin vs /mnk vs /sam vs /thf we're going to have to agree to disagree. I see all of them being useful depending on the role you need to play, LS party or not, over a wider range of levels than you seem to.

Um, see no advantage to Nin till 50 =/= never sub /NIN before 50. If you actually think they both mean the same thing then you should stop posting and brush up on reading comprehension.

And frankly, WAR/MNK is superior IMO. Great Axes are WAY superior to Axes before Rampage, Boost increases attack power of your attacks every 15 seconds and if your tanking makes holding hate incredibly easy. Dodge helps tanking, or is good if you get aggro and need to avoid some hits. And even if you do get hit, the extra Vit and HP from MNK at that level help lessen the damage. And frankly, even if you do use G. Axe as a WAR/NIN(which I've had to do in little mini TP burns in Altepa and Crawlers), it'd be stronger on MNK than on NIN.

So unless the party situation like mentioned above demands subbing NIN, or if your party needs a second voke for a Pre-37 NIN tank, subbing MNK is more effective. Hell, subbing DRG would be more effective.

[Sevv]

Re: oh my god

i had nin unlocked when i dinged 30 so i made the switch i still tank on my war at 64 with /nin lol aht urghan mobs rock =P

[Slip]

Re: oh my god

I was never saying "Never sub /nin before", so please don't try and alter the perception of my posts.

IMO, I see no advantage to subbing nin until 50, for many reasons, including DWII.

And I'm altering perceptions of your post how again?

I think on the overall topic of /nin vs /mnk vs /sam vs /thf we're going to have to agree to disagree. I see all of them being useful depending on the role you need to play, LS party or not, over a wider range of levels than you seem to.

[Lmnop]

Re: oh my god

Hmm what do you know? This thread became a SJ debate.

I solo tanked as war/nin @38 with a great party. I duo tanked as war/nin 40-41 with a great party. War/nin has its uses pre-50. But War/mnk is reliable. I solo tanked as war/mnk umm.... all over the place. And every time I had a party that would let me, I vastly preferred it to my time as war/nin.

the "no war/nin to 50" is a statement of averages. 48, 50, and 55 are the big levels. I don't think I have to spell out what comes at those 3 levels anymore, but the idea is that it won't be great (for DD) until some, if not all, of those conditions are met.

No blanket statements, guys. War/nin is just a tool. Don't be a tool, 'cuz then you're just a KI snob. Be a Warrior instead and be ready for anything.

[Celeal]

Re: oh my god

Edit:
Hmm. What was the level difference between the party and the monsters? I'm going to guess that WAR/MNK is actually a better tank for VT than IT monsters, especially using the attack food + defender style.

Even on PLD, fighting IT monsters comfortably requires Defender at times, and my PLD is always on defense food during exp parties. I can't imagine a WAR/MNK after Lv.40 to be having an easy time tanking IT's alone.

It has been a while since that party, I could not remember what was the party setup. We were at the Gusval Tunnel (spelling*) exp-ing on Carbs (and Goblin, if it is in the way and could not avoided).

In theory it can be done, that is why I tried WAR/MNK tank at that party. However, I guess the entire party (including myself) was not prepared: I feel very awkward to main tank as WAR/MNK since I have not do it for 20+ levels. From the support I seen in that party, I bet that the rest of the party had never work with WAR/MNK tank since the Dunes.

My conclusion is practice is required. If the player does not party with WAR/MNK tank for many levels (lvl 30+), when situation is need for the player to support a WAR/MNK, the player would not have the experience or skill to work with the WAR/MNK in those levels.

P.S.
For MP sponge with WAR/THF at Lv.30+, I would also say practice is required. For the first few try in parties as WAR/THF at lvl 30+, it is the MP sponge very easily. The more WAR/THF to practice, the more experience and knowledge for WAR/THF to ride the hate. I had use WAR/THF exclusively from level 42 to 48. It is true that I pull hate with SA + Sturmwind, however, it does not matter if you make sure the mob dies within 10 or 20 seconds afterwards.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: oh my god

your gonna outdamage me with an axe war/mnk to war/nin? lol /nin is for those who want to use one handed weapons as well as those who pull alot of hate.

OP uses two-handed axe, BTW. ^_^;

now if he wants to use great axe or other 2handed weapons /thf @ 30 and /sam @60 are the way to go.

It's easy to become an MP sponge with WAR/THF at Lv.30+; SA + Sturmwind is very difficult to resist, and the average tank players simply won't be able to hold the monsters if the second hit is a critical hit as well or if Double Attack proc'ed when Berserk is up.

With /DRG (and that latent earring), it's 4% haste, which means 4% more DoT and 4% more TP over time, while Jump + big axe = nice TP and damage. This is easier to walk the hate line with, I think, without losing ground on damage.

WAR/SAM actually looks like a decent combination, even at Lv.30. Zanshin and Store TP are helpful on the damage front, while Third Eye just before Sturmwind or Warcry will lessen the risks.

Of course, all the above were about DD'ing; WAR/MNK for solo tanking and WAR/NIN for duo tanking are the way to go if not DD'ing.

Edit:

I had tanked in one party as WAR/MNK at level 58. Unfortunately, it does not work well for me. Maybe it is the pickup party setup, or me/party members did not prepared for WAR/MNK tank style, i don't know.

Hmm. What was the level difference between the party and the monsters? I'm going to guess that WAR/MNK is actually a better tank for VT than IT monsters, especially using the attack food + defender style.

Even on PLD, fighting IT monsters comfortably requires Defender at times, and my PLD is always on defense food during exp parties. I can't imagine a WAR/MNK after Lv.40 to be having an easy time tanking IT's alone.

[Sevv]

Re: oh my god

PLEASE do not tell him this. There's already enough Warriors in the game going /NIN at his level when /MNK is superior for both tanking and damage. The fact that he's a Tarutaru might be part of the problem.
If he's tanking, better gears and party support and if doing damage, hate management are the resolutions to his problem...not shadows.

your gonna outdamage me with an axe war/mnk to war/nin? lol /nin is for those who want to use one handed weapons as well as those who pull alot of hate.

hell when i solo rng nms as drg i sub /nin due to eagle shot and i am still able to use healing breath.

now if he wants to use great axe or other 2handed weapons /thf @ 30 and /sam @60 are the way to go.

[Celeal]

Re: oh my god

I had a few parties between level 50 ~ 60 as DD using WAR/MNK. Alternate between Aggressor and Focus with attack food is awesome for low IT mob ^o^! It works well when Focus or Aggressor yields enough acc+ to hit the exp mob, works well with both G.Axe or Shield + Axe.

I had tanked in one party as WAR/MNK at level 58. Unfortunately, it does not work well for me. Maybe it is the pickup party setup, or me/party members did not prepared for WAR/MNK tank style, i don't know. However, to me WAR/MNK is a solid tank:
1. Attack food + Defender all time + Defensive gear = decent damage migration with decent damage output.
2. Alternate between Focus and Aggressor/Dodge = accuracy buff at all time. Focus 2 minutes out of 5 minutes, while Aggressor 3 minutes out of 5 minutes, and Dodge covers the Aggressor's evasion lost.
3. Good old Provoke -> Boost -> Boost -> Provoke... counter.
4. WAR AF for tanking.

However, for sushi build, i would use war/nin (Axe) or war/sam (G.Axe)

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: oh my god

Also, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about BRD wise... by static, I mean it's the three of us, and no one else. The reason for this is simple; the RDM/WHM is my Sister, and the RDM/DRK is my Mum. So keeping them alive is a very risky business indeed.
(And you lot think you have it hard when a LS member dies, HA!)

Ah. When I read "static with 3", I thought you meant you 3 always start the party and fill up with 3 pick-up members. For what you're doing, I'm more used to hearing "Trio" than "static". Or perhaps "static trio" would be more precise.