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leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

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  • #31
    Re: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

    Regarding Cocoon, I think the /check message would've been a much better indicator. You can overwrite Dia with Bio, but it won't tell you Dia wore off. Also, I'm pretty sure that when I tried to find some pattern for Armor Break and Acid Bolts overwriting each other (I couldn't, though) the Acid Bolts would always report the Defense Down effect even if it didn't actually kick in (i.e. the mob remained with Armor Break's -25% defense instead of shifting down to -12.5% defense from acid bolts.)

    Would suck if Full Break doesn't prevent buffing.


    • #32
      Re: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

      Interesting. Certainly got a lot harder for me to test with my scant few online hours.

      What you said about Acid bolts always reporting regardless of whether or not they actually took effect (in that case, I'd assume they always report their defense down, but it overlaps the def down of Armor Break -- since 25% is bigger, it's the number that shows. If Armor Break were to wear off before Acid Bolts, it should fall to 12.5%.) brings up the issue that Cocoon is doing the same thing. That their Defense + 50% may come into play, but since Full Break is a higher tier, it remains in full effect.

      This would bring a new layer to the idea of tiers for buffs/debuffs. I'm not really sure what I'm thinking just yet, I'll try my best here... The intangibility postulate: Would effects of a lower tier go on like nothing happened? If you assume Full Break couldn't be removed unless by a buff of equal tier, could Cocoon and Acid bolts play on in addition to Full Break's effects? I'm kinda doubting it. What I'm hoping for (just because it'd make sense) is...

      Crawler has Cocoon up. Full Break lands, it whipes the slate clean of defense buffs/debuffs (if I get around to testing the acid bolt + Full Break thing, this could prove otherwise). At this point, it's dispelled everything (that matters to the scenario) and is in full effect. Now, if Crawler uses Cocoon again, it says it gains the effect of it. The question is -- is it possible that the new cocoon is in place and just cannot take effect? This would provide the mob with something to be dispelled, whether or not it was doing anything.

      I'm rambling the obvious, aren't I? I'm hoping to find a way to test this on weak mobs. I suppose with a WHM friend, Robber Crabs could live long enough for this.

      And Celeal: Congratulations on 65. :D

      @66 when you get Mistral Axe, you'll very seldom get a party that actually wants to SC. I don't mind doing war/nin if it means I get to make Light. Also, war/sam is suicide with NIN tanks. Unfortunately, no parties ever want pld tanks for my sake. =( This is why I'm so intent on war/sam 70+. If you always have a PLD around, then enjoy the fun. =)
      "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"


      • #33
        Re: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

        I don't think it's possible that the Acid Bolt kicked in but was overlapping with Armor Break - they take up the same "effect slot" on the player screen. i.e. They both count as Defense Down, and you can't seem to have two of them any more than you can have Defense Up and Defense Down at the same time; when I was soloing my BLU to 20 and I fought Dhalmels, I'd use Cocoon to overwrite their Sonic Wave - quite a nifty way of wasting a mob's TP if you ask me. In addition to that, the Sonic Wave doesn't keep running in the background - if I cancel Cocoon, I won't have it on. They're the same tier in potency, yet the weaker one gets overwritten fully rather than being latent; it'd be silly that a lower tier effect can overwrite the stronger one upon activation, because then there'd be no tiers at all (the higher tier will always overwrite the lower, but the lower will always overwrite the higher one.) Also, when overwriting Dia with Bio, Dia won't give the message that it wore off at all - if it had been running in the background with Bio taking precedence, then logically it should've given the "The whatever's Dia effect wears off" message at some point.

        I believe they're simply programmed to report what they did as long as it succeeded even if it didn't actually happen. What I mean is, I think the game will always attach the line "The <insert variety of Crawler here> gains the effect of Defense Boost" to "The Crawler uses Cocoon" regardless of the outcome. Likewise, the game may check for Acid Bolt's procs first (and show the corresponding animations and messages) before it decides whether or not the effect can stay.

        Ideally, you'd want a mob that doesn't give a defense check message alone, and drops to low Defense with Full Break. Cocoon will be enough to take it to High Defense, so the /check messages will faithfully report which of the two effects is up at any given moment. You could use Defender to be able to force normal defense /checks on lower mobs while at the same time boosting your endurance, too, as long as you keep it on always.

        EDIT: Somehow I totally missed Celeal's post. That's really awesome, it's good to hear WAR/SAM works as well in practice as it does on paper. I hope you get lots of more chances to try it out ^^
        Last edited by Armando; 01-28-2007, 07:13 AM. Reason: Typo


        • #34
          Re: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

          Can't you grab a blue mage and test it out in one of the various forms of PvP instead of trying it out on mobs? Assuming everything works the same, have the blue mage check his def, smack him with Full Break, he uses Cocoon and then checks his defense again.

          You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

          I don't have a big ego, it just has a large mouth.


          • #35
            Re: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

            I'm far too lazy for that. And I also have to wonder if mob WSs work differently than when a BLU uses the same one (1000 needles apparently fails a lot for BLUs, while i've yet to evade it from a cactuar).

            Thanks for the suggestions, Armando. I'll see what I can do.
            "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"


            • #36
              Re: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior

              I cannot confirm Coccon and Full Break, but can confirm Crawler's Sticky Thread (Slow - tier one) and Haste. I was tanking as NIN/WAR against Processionaire (Crawlers) in Boyahda Tree:

              1. When I receive Haste after I got slowed by Sticky Thread, the log would say I got Haste effect.

              2. When I receive Erase after I got Stick Thread, the log would say Slow effect disappeared.

              3. When Crawler uses Sticky Thread while I already have Haste, it would say Slow has no effect.

              P.S: I still don't have a chance to get Full Break yet... LFG as WAR/SAM for hours, then finally got an invite.... into a party that has no tank. I ended up job change to NIN/WAR .... sigh~
              Last edited by Celeal; 01-28-2007, 07:21 PM.
              Server: Quetzalcoatl
              Race: Hume Rank 7
              75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU