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  • #31
    Re: I like swords!

    dude, you have a ridill... 'nuff said

    and you got merits and abjurations up the wahzoo. remember, we are talking about lower level here

    Thanks Yyg!

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    • #32
      Re: I like swords!

      It is your gear/weapon/merit contribute most toward your sword, not the job itself.
      Server: Quetzalcoatl
      Race: Hume Rank 7
      75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU

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      • #33
        Re: I like swords!

        If I were 75 and had full merits and some of the best gear in the game, I'd be pretty awesome too. But since we're not talking about being 75 and having some of the best gear in the game, I don't see what all that bragging has to do with anything.

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        • #34
          Re: I like swords!

          It was nice though and I'm so impressed, not sure we'll see that combo weilded in yhoater jungle any time soon mind. Irrelevant but hey it was nice to see...

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          • #35
            Re: I like swords!

            Originally posted by C.D
            Hi, my Sword skill is 278 (Merits + Suppanomimi + Fortitude Torque) and I'm *the* best swords wielder in the game. And guess what, I'm a War/Nin and a (blink) tank.
            Hi, I don't care what you have because the OP isn't at 75 with full merits and the best game in gear. Guess what, a Pld with all that suff, save for ridill and Adaburk, would be just as good. But Plds don't focus on that.

            Also I love how you mention Rampage, an Axe WS and Steel Cyclone, a Gaxe WS, when trying to prove that swords are better. Kind of ironic your best Dmg came from your Axe WS no?

            The two exceptions to the rule do not make swords the best option. And War/nin is a craptastic solo tank pre 74 as the only ways they can hold hate are with 'dmg' and voke. With the right support and a smart PT it can work with a Brd using Carnage elegey, but it is FAR from the optimum. And at 74+ Most jobs can sub nin and tank, that's the whole concept behind Meripo pts. Have all the melee sub nin so you never need to heal. There are plenty of stories about Drks, Mnks, Thfs, Brds and yes even Plds, subbing nin and tanking NMs/HNMs and so forth.

            By the time this guy got to your lvl he will be able to think for himself and understand what's best and why. But for now, while he's new, he's asking for advice on what's best for *his* lvl at this time.

            And without Ridill, Joyese, Full merits, Suppa and the tourque, Plds are the best sword uses in game.
            Last edited by Ziero; 08-21-2006, 08:58 AM.
            "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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            • #36
              Re: I like swords!

              I understand the "make dead fast" concept, but what about what I want?
              You can do anything and everything the way you want to... if you solo. But soloing gets you nowhere slow in this game (with a few exceptional cases). This game is all about teamwork and cooperation. When you're on a team with 5 other people, you have to learn the art of compromise. And it won't always be about what weapon you main hand. It could be over your sub. Or over what zone to head to. Or what DD job to fill the 6th spot with. Or over why you have a Happy Egg equipped instead of Acid Bolts. Or over whether to use Dia on the mobs, or Bio, or (gasp) both.

              Sometimes, you'll be "right". Other times, they'll be "right". Most of the time, there's no "right" and "wrong". It's best to pick your battles. High maintenance, heavy complaint players make for a very un-fun gaming experience. I suggest doing your part to be easy going, and hope other players do the same. It will have far more of an impact on your gaming experience than your choice of weapon ever will.
              Lyonheart
              lvl 75 WAR, 75 BST, 75 BLM, 75 NIN, 47 SCH
              Cooking 100.0+3+3, Culinarian's Signboard, Raw Fish Handling, Noodle Kneading, Patissier
              Fishing 60

              Lakiskline
              Bonecrafting 100.0+3+3,
              Leather 60+2, Woodworking 60, Alchemy 60
              Smithing 60, Clothcraft 55, Goldsmithing 54.1, Cooking 11
              Boneworker's Signboard, Bone Purification, Bone Ensorcellment, Filing, Lumberjack, Chainwork

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              • #37
                Re: I like swords!

                >.> redundant post #231 here goes:

                As C.D points out, there are obviously exceptions to the rules. Ridill is broken, plain and simple. The fact that Warrior can equip Ridill is countered by the fact that a PLD could have Excalibur. And sure, fully upgraded Relic is uncommon, but so is Ridill, so we've lifted limits of "likelyhood." Methinks a Fully meritted PLD with full homam + Excalibur/Justice Sword (as well as all sword skill raising accessories) would be pretty fun. >.>;; Except I think you'd get higher DoT by not Dual Wielding. Oh how I wish they'd release a PLD shield with Haste +5% on it...

                BUT! that's not regular. For any warrior who I can't even convince to level Greataxe, I'm certainly not going to tell them to keep sword leveled for the occasion of obtaining a Ridill (besides, you can wait and skill up with Joyeuse to make life easier).

                I must disagree on War tanking though, War/nin + Bard + Whm 40+ is incredible, if said jobs are competent players. 48+, Rdm (or SMN, technically) can replace the Whm in that layout, as well as being more reliable at landing Slow (very important for the tanking war/nin). 59+, Tanking is stupid easy with just voke, aggressor, and berserk. Unfortunately, I only got to do this 59-60 and no one has let me tank since. But everyone remembers Nny's tales.

                lolPaladin
                This is a good way to incite anger. lol<insert job here> does nothing but fuel the fires of ignorance.
                "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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                • #38
                  Re: I like swords!

                  Originally posted by Murphie
                  If I were 75 and had full merits and some of the best gear in the game, I'd be pretty awesome too. But since we're not talking about being 75 and having some of the best gear in the game, I don't see what all that bragging has to do with anything.
                  Maybe you can't read. This is what I quoted:

                  Originally posted by Ziero
                  Hi, I don't care what you have because the OP isn't at 75 with full merits and the best game in gear. Guess what, a Pld with all that suff, save for ridill and Adaburk, would be just as good. But Plds don't focus on that.

                  Also I love how you mention Rampage, an Axe WS and Steel Cyclone, a Gaxe WS, when trying to prove that swords are better. Kind of ironic your best Dmg came from your Axe WS no?


                  Plds are *the* best one handed sword users in game. They have a higher skill then blu, better sword choices then blu (Espadons are just killer) and are the only job with access to Swift Blade. So if you want to be a sword wielding tank be a Pld (...)
                  Which is false. So I posted proofs of who really are the best swords wielder in this game: Warriors, due to the ability of dual wielding while conserving Double Attack and Job Abilities like Berserk and Aggressor and also thanks to the superior DD gear/weapon choice.

                  Highest skill doesn't automatically mean doing more damage (in fact, at level 75, 1 skill "only" adds 1 Atk and 0,9 Accuracy) than another class and regards my WS screenshots lol, there's DoT and there's spiked damage; Rampage is surely superior to Vorpal Blade in that sense but the frequency of the attacks while main handing an Axe is nowhere high as the 2x swords combo one.

                  Originally posted by Ziero
                  There are plenty of stories about Drks, Mnks, Thfs, Brds and yes even Plds, subbing nin and tanking NMs/HNMs and so forth.
                  Only viable tanks for real HNMs are Paladins, Warrior and Ninjas. End of the story.

                  Serket isn't a HNM, Behemoth NQ isn't a HNM, Hakutaku isn't a HNM, although a LV43 may think otherwise.

                  Besides, I tank stuff on my PLD/NIN all the time (the rare days you can actually see me on Paladin), Cerberus, Tiamat, etc. The only times I feel the need to sub /WAR is for kited fights (King Behemoth, Vrtra) and Fafnir/Nidhogg (even though my Warrior would be a far superior tank in this case).

                  Originally posted by Ziero
                  And without Ridill, Joyese, Full merits, Suppa and the tourque, Plds are the best sword uses in game.
                  Sure and without Hydra Haubert and Bahamuth Mask Paladin kinda sucks; what's your point then because you aren't making any sense here. The fact that not many peoples have access to the aforementioned items doesn't mean they don't exist/don't ehnances the class capabilities lol /rollseyes. The only reason Paladin use swords is for their bonus (Enmity from Grudge Sword and Macuhauitl +1, HP and Defense from Tutelary, VIT from Honor Sword, Killer Trait from Hrotti and so on) since they're kinda forced to use a 1 handed weapon nowadays after shield revamp, not because they're so omfgpowerful while using one; If they'd add a club with +50 HP/+4 Enmity/+6 VIT you wouldn't see a single PLD wielding a sword in the whole Vana'diel, lol.

                  Double Post Edited:
                  Originally posted by Lmnop

                  LolPaladin

                  This is a good way to incite anger. lol<insert job here> does nothing but fuel the fires of ignorance.
                  Lol dude, watch more closely. I was being sarcastic since I'm a PLD myself and I know very well the strenght and the weakness of the job.

                  Last edited by C.D; 08-21-2006, 09:43 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                  Meripo: 380+; LS: Not a HNMLS; Garuda server.

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                  • #39
                    Re: I like swords!

                    My reading comprehension is just fine, thanks. Whatever Ziero is talking about really has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's question, which is what I was referring to. Maybe you're the one with the comprehension issues?

                    The bottom line is that for most people, getting incredibly rare/godly gear is not ever going to happen. So while it's great to flash our e-peens and talk about how awesome we are with all this great stuff, it's not going to help newer players to learn what will work best for them during the early to mid-levels of the game.

                    What works at 75 doesn't necessarily work at 35. That's not really a difficult concept to grasp.
                    Last edited by Murphie; 08-21-2006, 10:33 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: I like swords!

                      This is simply 2 perspectives. C.D is only looking at ultimate performance. When other people say PLD is the king of the sword, they mean that PLD has the highest sword skill in the game, and access to every piece of sword skill+ gear that war has (they can even both sub rdm for swordbelt >.>) as well as able to use every single sword WS ever made.

                      However, a Warrior with a ridill/joyeuse, merits out the ass, and its own natural advantages will outDD a paladin. Yes, it's true. The flaw here is that, PLD isn't built to be pure DD. Even in a situation where a Paladin is pure DD, they at least have cures and Flash to upkeep the party (and cover for temp tanking at the very least). What does Warrior have when DD? A big fuggin' voke when the tank is about to die. That's very nice, don't get me wrong, but their real role when playing DD is exactly that.

                      In short, Warrior was made to deal more damage than Paladin, that's the way it is, that's the way the game was balanced.

                      You missed something about Paladin and Swords though -- damage -is- important. Pallies don't just use swords for stats. That age is coming to an end. Those beliefs are what caused the rise of blink tanking to the point that no one wants Paladins any more. There comes a point when focusing a bit on attack does more for a Paladin than a handful of +VIT. If said Club was implemented into game with Dmg 26, It would become the new HNM choice. It would be retarded in exp.

                      EDIT: I put "a sword with a Ridill/Joyeuse" instead of "-warrior- with a Ridill..."
                      Last edited by Lmnop; 08-22-2006, 09:01 AM.
                      "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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                      • #41
                        Re: I like swords!

                        The only thing that makes War's 'better' with swords is that they can dual wield Ridill and Joyeuse. That's it. If war's couldn't get just ridill, no war would ever main hand a sword. Your 'DoT' Dmg isn't from you being a War with swords, it's from you HAVING a Ridill and a Joyeuse. Multi hit weapons over write natural DA and TA traits, they also don't proc during WS iirc. That's the main reason your rampages blow your Vorpals out of the water. If Pld could use both Ridill and Joyeuse they would be just as good with swords. You're not the best sword wielder because you're a War, you're the 'best' because you have a freaking Ridill.

                        As for the HNMs, Drks with Ridill tank the CoP dragons just like Wars, only they can use two massive hate making abilities. Brds, can use marzuka to make massive hate too. Plds cures/flash ect. Again, the only thing a War/nin can tank with over other jobs is voke and 'dmg', but other jobs can do Dmg too. Yes war may be the 'best' as you put it, but it has nothing to do with their swords. If there was a multi-hit axe, besides the temperance, I'd doubt you'd see many wars with swords anymore. Though nice jab with the 43 comment, sadly it failed because A) I haven't updated that thing since I made this account and B) it's not even the highest job I listed.

                        And FYI, Serket and Behemoth ARE HNMs, Haku's not though, never was. If you don't know the difference between NMs and HNMs then I suggest you avoid that topic.

                        ....and to be perfectly honest, I forgot all about the Excalibur. That alone defeats your argument. With full haste gear, and Pld can get a ton of it, Exca and joy toy, then Pld becomes a much more powerful job. But if you only go full tank gear, like you suggested Plds do, even while subbing nin, then you're not being at your full potential. And seeing as you said that 1 skill level is 1 att/.9 acc, that means that Pld will have +27 more att and +24 acc more then you with a sword, always. Which is more then the Adaburk gives you.

                        If you're going to use the best of the best DD gear a war can get and compare it to mediocre at best Tank gear for Pld then of course it will be lop sided. But a fully and totally pimped out Pld will be better with a Sword then a War.
                        "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                        • #42
                          Re: I like swords!

                          I don't mean to feed the fire, but...I lol'ed. At this entire argument, actually. It's gotten quite epic.
                          sigpic

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                          • #43
                            Re: I like swords!

                            Originally posted by neighbortaru
                            dude, you have a ridill... 'nuff said

                            and you got merits and abjurations up the wahzoo. remember, we are talking about lower level here
                            Cut him some slack. He's gotta satisfy his e-peen.
                            ~~~BLM SAM RNG NIN PLD~~~

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                            • #44
                              Re: I like swords!

                              Yeah, I kinda got aff track a bit huh O.<

                              Anyways, Murphie is right. Things are much different pre 75 90% of the time, and this subject is one of them. Through out lvling 1-75 there are few, if any times, where a War will be better then a Pld with a sword. It's just how the game was built.
                              "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                              • #45
                                Re: I like swords!

                                OK- so I know this thread has been pretty well beaten into the ground already, but had what I think was an interesting experience today in my first Qufim party as a WAR/MNK. I think it helps to show why a WAR can be successful using a B- (? .... maybe worse?) rated weapon instead of the Great Axe or Axe.

                                My Equipment was the Following:

                                Mrc. Greatsword
                                Leather Bandana
                                Lizard Jerkin
                                Lizard Trousers
                                Lizard Boots/Greaves (?)
                                Lgn. Mittens
                                2x Balance Ring

                                No Food.

                                So stat bonuses due to equipment included +4 DEX from Balance Rings and +10 Attack from Lgn. Mittens and the Greatsword. None of these are extremely rare/costly/ or difficult to obtain.

                                In my Qufim party I was far exceeding the damage dealt by the other party members. We had 1 healer, and the rest were Tank/DD... we took turns voking so the healer never had to get panicked that someone was about to die.... but we were all WAR or subbed WAR except for one of us. While most of the other members were doing avereage hits between 6 and 20 (high 20 for critical hits) , I was regularly hitting in the high 30s or low 40s (and up to 60 for criticals).

                                Then I discovered that magic that is Boost, and the other magic that is Berserk. Using these 2 abilities my damage, and especially my WS damage was off the charts! I think I had WS damage close to 90 points. I didn't get to test the full extent of my damage range with Berserk and Boost b/c I had to log off, but i think these are very promising numbers! Do WARs using G. Axe post numbers this high? Honestly most WARs I have partied with don't use G.Axe, so it's hard for me to say. I think this is good damage, or am I wrong?
                                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                                If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

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